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AZ Gen says Army solders may not help Minuteman

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posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 01:01 AM
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Somewhere, and I durn sure have look but I can't find it, there is a rule, regulation, amendment, etc. stating that the U.S. Military has restricted operational capability within the borders of the U.S., but there are certain exceptions. Can any military buffs or ex-military help me out with that, please?


Its the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878.

www.dojgov.net...

Exceptions would be the National Guard when under control of a state governor and the Coast Guard.




posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 01:17 AM
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Originally posted by Skibum



Somewhere, and I durn sure have look but I can't find it, there is a rule, regulation, amendment, etc. stating that the U.S. Military has restricted operational capability within the borders of the U.S., but there are certain exceptions. Can any military buffs or ex-military help me out with that, please?


Its the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878.

www.dojgov.net...

Exceptions would be the National Guard when under control of a state governor and the Coast Guard.




Good find and thank you Skibum.
I never would have found that site!



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 01:59 AM
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Posse Comitatus Act
. . . expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section And any person willfully violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment.


All you folks ranting about why doesn't the military patrol the U.S. Borders have forgotten your history. How far away from the border should the Army be allowed to chase someone? How about 100 miles? Within the 100 range the U.S. Army would in effect have martial law.

NO ONE would be excused from military justice- Guantanamo

All you folks crying for the Army have apparently forgotten the Patriot Act and other abridgements of your rights. Let the Posse Comitatus Act be nullified and Bushco could order troops (get this- armed troops) into any place they want whenever they want.

Not the national guard but battle troops and Marines, Air force, etc.


The law, was championed by far-sighted Southern lawmakers in 1878. They had experienced a fifteen year military occupation by the US Army in post-Civil War law enforcement. They understood the heel of a jackboot.

Page of Executive Orders that should chill everyone to the bone.

Just a few:

    * EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.
    * EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.
    * EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.
    * EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.
    * EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

Add the military (not the Guard) to this and no one will have any rights.

What if this immigration problem is a set up? (red herring)



Picture AFTER American occupation troops finished. Could this happen in America?

It did- more than once!



One of the better

Waco remembered pages
The local sheriff investigated and found no basis for complaints against them. These were law-abiding American citizens, even if they thought differently to most other folks. They trusted the U.S. Constitution to ensure their political rights, but they were murdered by agents acting under the authority of the U.S. government. Read this page if you believe otherwise. If you still have doubts, get the video Rules of Engagement for visual evidence.

Do you trust YOUR government enough to ask them to send the Army into your own town/city?
.

.



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by boogyman
Asides from the Neonazi scum out to hunt down "wetbacks" I wouldnt be surprised if the group has been or will be infiltrated by provocateurs to turn america away from the border issue. The group has given some key political players a bit of a blackeye as of late. Its hard to say your keeping America safe when you wont even make the effort to keep the border secure.



Very well said, you understand the situation in Arizona with the militia groups is more than one and very controverstial.

BTW "wetbacks" are from the islands in the Caribbean because they come across the water.



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043

Very well said, you understand the situation in Arizona with the militia groups is more than one and very controverstial.



Stop being so paranoid Marg....... They are not a militia that would be Ranch Rescue you know the ones with automatic weapons.

The Minuteman are nothing more then a neighborhood watch and they have stated that over and over as have I, yet you still refuse to get it because of your stance on illgals.:shk: :bnghd:



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by dbates

Take some pictures for us and let us know how it went. It would be cool to get an inside, unfiltered view of how things are from the inside. Stay safe.


Well I do not own a digital camera but may pick up a throw A way, I am not about to take my good 35mm out in the desert for obvious reasons.

I will get some pics though you can be sure of that



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by shots
The Minuteman are nothing more then a neighborhood watch and they have stated that over and over as have I, yet you still refuse to get it because of your stance on illegals.:shk: :bnghd:


I believe that you need to look for the meaning of neighborhood watch in a dictionary, because you know very well that a neighborhood is a group of residents in the same area and does not included strangers coming from another state.

Now my view of the minuteman are base on facts, something that you are avoiding.

Also I will appreciate if you stop the "my stance on illegals" you have no ideal of "my stance on illegals is" I do not consider every illegal an enemy or something despicable that needs to be killed like so many has voiced in some of these threads about the minuteman, after all anybody that does not share native American roots is an immigrant in this country.

One of the points you have to take in consideration is that the Government is not backing up the militia groups vigilantes and neither the "minuteman"

I wonder if you reluctance to see the fact of what is going on in Arizona is due to you been member of the minute man on a recruiting job here in ATS or an over zealot patriot either way that is your choice and either way I will voice my views.

Deny ignorance is what ATS is all about, so don't expect every single member in here be all for what you believe.



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by shots
They are not the Militia they have made it very clear they are working like a Neighborhood watch group nothing more. stop being so paranoid about this. you are trying to make it looke like a militia when it is not.


Let me clarify this for you:

A group of soccer moms and dads + binoculars = neighborhood watch group

A group of hicks + alkeehawl + weapons + lawn chairs on beds of pick-up trucks + greasy tanktops and overalls + no dental insurance = militia



I will stand my post and report each and everyone I see you can bet on that. I also have no intention of confronting them that is against SOP for the Minuteman.


"Stand my post"...."Standard Operating Procedure for the Minutemen"......

Give me a freakin' break!! Aren't there any rent-a-cop jobs out there for you to indulge yourself in?


Peace out


[edit on 6-4-2005 by Dr Love]



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 11:22 AM
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Dr. Love, Men like Shots are worth 1000 people like you.

At least he has the Guts to go out and try to do something about the invasion taking place on our southern borders. All you can do is mock him and call the Minutemen "rednecks".

People in glass houses's should not throw rocks.


Maximu§



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Dr. Love, Men like Shots are worth 1000 people like you.


He must be some kind of ladies man then.




At least he has the Guts to go out and try to do something about the invasion taking place on our southern borders. All you can do is mock him and call the Minutemen "rednecks".


"Guts"......are you kidding me? What kind of "guts" does it take to gang up on and intimidate, what amounts to, a bunch of scared people looking for a better life. That's not to say that all of them have innocent and well-meaning intentions, but I believe most of them do. The problem is that most of these "invaders" are actually smarter than the Minutemen (
) keeping tabs on them, and they will find another way. They always do.

The fact that these guys call themselves "Minutemen" is the biggest disgrace of all. Are they actually comparing themselves to the truly brave men of the Revolutionary War? I would have a lot easier time digesting "Minutenecks" or "Minutehicks".

How ironic it is that the guy that most of these MENSAs voted for President is the same guy that doesn't give a crap about "the invasion taking place on our southern borders". These are the same boneheads that got swept up in the whole Swiftboat Veterans For Truth diversion. You know what, have their back and call them brave......I don't really care.


Peace


[edit on 6-4-2005 by Dr Love]



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Dr. Love, Men like Shots are worth 1000 people like you.

At least he has the Guts to go out and try to do something about the invasion taking place on our southern borders. All you can do is mock him and call the Minutemen "rednecks".




Maximu§


Thanks Max. Don't ya just love that iggy button? It does wonders for ones blood pressure ya know.



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 12:56 PM
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What a sad statement Dr Love.

Please don't confuse me for a Bush cheerleader, because Bush betrayed us conservatives on the illegal alien issues.

Im not sure what its like in your neck-of-the-woods, but here in California we have schools that are over crowded, hospital emergency rooms closing down, prisons over-flowing and it gets worse daily.

Imagine America as a healthy Donkey......the Donkey works hard and is fed well, but what happens when you start loading too many bricks on the donkeys back? Pretty soon the poor Donkey falls over dead with a brokeb back....it could not handle the load. Thats exactly whats gonna happen to America!!!

Too many poor, un-educated immigrants who suck the system dry and don't pay taxes will kill our nation.......is that what you want? Be truthful with your answer.

Maximu§



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
after all anybody that does not share native American roots is an immigrant in this country.


Um, wrong, they were just the first immigrants. There is no such thing as a native American. Nobody evolved on this continent.

As for the illegal issue, using the logic applied by many on this thread, why even have borders? What's the point? Let's just dissolve the Border Patrol and the INS and open the flood gates, hell, you could even start a shuttle service into the U.S. I'm sure we could handle a sudden influx of half the Mexican population, right? This coming from the same people I see in other threads pointing out that the U.S. is not respecting the sovereignty of other nations, but when others do not respect our sovereignty, it's okay?

Until there are no borders, and the world is united as one, which is a long way off if ever, we have every right to protect our borders. Karl Rove, I mean the government, won't guard our borders for the sake of the hispanic swing vote, that's why they are against this.

Anybody else find it funny how people jump right into bed with the evil neo-cons as soon as they share a common goal, in this case ignoring illegal immigration, even if the motives are as low and dirty as ever?

[edit on 6-4-2005 by 27jd]



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by Dr Love
A group of hicks + alkeehawl + weapons + lawn chairs on beds of pick-up trucks + greasy tanktops and overalls + no dental insurance = militia


I suppose you have been spying on shots and have rummaged through his closet to see what type of clothes he wears? Now you are stereotyping, and I think you're starting to cross the line here. To say that the Minuteman project is wrong is fine, but to make broad statements that say everyone in it is a toothless Neanderthal tells us that your mind is closed on this issue and you have your mind made up on this issue without even reviewing the facts. Our motto here is "Deny Ignorance" which implies that you be able to open your mind and at least listen to other ideas. No one says you have to like them.


Fact! The illegal aliens are called such because their activities are illegal. You know I'd feel sorry for someone who had to steal bread to feed his family, but that doesn't mean that his actions were right. What about the person who owned the bakery that was stolen from? Does this individual deserve to be protected under the law? The people involved in the Minuteman project have done nothing illegal, or immoral. Nothing except take a stand and say that they are tired of the lack of protection that the US government is providing them. It's a political statement that does not warrant comments such as those. If anything it deserves a pat on the back and a "Thank you".

[edit on 6-4-2005 by dbates]



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
:shk: :bnghd:

Also I will appreciate if you stop the "my stance on illegals" you have no ideal of "my stance on illegals is" I do not consider every illegal an enemy or something despicable that needs to be killed like so many has voiced in some of these threads about the minuteman, after all anybody that does not share native American roots is an immigrant in this country.



What do you mean I have no idea what your stance is


You just made it very clear once again, that being the case, I have every right to point out when I disagree with you because of your stance.



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by Dr Love

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Dr. Love, Men like Shots are worth 1000 people like you.


He must be some kind of ladies man then.







Thanks Max. Don't ya just love that iggy button? It does wonders for ones blood pressure ya know.



Yeah that's the ignorant button. In place so that ignorant people can stick their fingers in their ears and yell "lah lah lah lah lah lah" rather than read an opposing view. You want to just read things you agree with? Then go back to freerepublic.com.

Good luck down there. You may learn how to tie a knot or two, and come back able to identify native flora by their latin names.



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by Dr Love
Let me clarify this for you:

A group of soccer moms and dads + binoculars = neighborhood watch group

A group of hicks + alkeehawl + weapons + lawn chairs on beds of pick-up


Let me add something to this: The citizens watch (which the Minutemen seem so eager to sneer at and dismiss) are citizens who are working WITH the local law enforcement agencies, who receive training from local law enforcement agencies, and who work in coordination with local law enforcement agencies. They work with the police to ensure that the perp doesn't get off because of illegal maneuverings by someone on the capture team.

The militia have their OWN solutions and aren't working in coordination with the agencies. So they set up their own "watch line" and it's very ineffective. They don't want to work with the local agents because the agents will say "not without a lot of specialized training, and then you go where we tell you and do what we tell you."

There are a lot of citizens who work with government agencies on volunteer bases. I've worked with Crimestoppers, I work (volunteer) monitoring rock art sites and reporting problems. Many people that I know are involved in neighborhood watches and in other forms of environmental and social monitoring.

WE are the ones working to stop crime in our cities and to keep our citizens safe. We're the ones escorting coeds on campus late at night to prevent them from being targets for rape. We're the ones doing citizen patrols working with the police to spot problems in the neighborhood.

I've seen people on this thread make excuses for businessmen who hire illegals -- but those of us who are working with our local law enforcement agencies sure aren't off making exucses for these businessmen. And some of us are volunteering with social services (like my friend, Deirdre) to help American kids find jobs and keep them out of the hands of illegals.

Working with the law enforcement officials in your own city has a real and proven impact on lowering crime.

Running off to play cowboys and indians doesn't.



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by cargo
Yeah that's the ignorant button. In place so that ignorant people can stick their fingers in their ears and yell "lah lah lah lah lah lah" rather than read an opposing view. You want to just read things you agree with? Then go back to freerepublic.com.



I do not mind reading opposing views. What I do object to is when they write them with an arrogrant attitude. As I saw what the author stated he appeared to be looking for a fight of some sort and I have no intentions of doing so. I guess a better word for the author would be a troll of sorts.



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by shots
I do not mind reading opposing views. What I do object to is when they write them with an arrogrant attitude. As I saw what the author stated he appeared to be looking for a fight of some sort and I have no intentions of doing so. I guess a better word for the author would be a troll of sorts.


".....You know what, have their back and call them brave......I don't really care."


How that constitutes "looking for a fight" is beyond me. Like Cargo said, I think you're irritated with me because I disagree with you, plain and simple. Go ahead and find some other sort of pseudo-patriotic garbage to get involved in, and I'll be right there to drop the hammer again.......that is unless I agree with you, which seems highly unlikely. No hard feelings.

Peace


[edit on 7-4-2005 by Dr Love]

[edit on 7-4-2005 by Dr Love]



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 11:20 AM
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I think the current news story shows how much the militia disrespect our country's laws. The harrassing actions they are engaging in are illegal.

The border agents and REAL military personnel go through a lot of training on handling suspects. Any agent engaging or any MILITARY personnel involved in that type of unethical conduct is promptly disciplined:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Soldiers would do well to stay away from these groups -- unethical actions like the ones taken by the militia can put a soldier's career in jeopardy... or end up with him in the stockade (under military court rules which are MUCH harsher than civilian courts) for a very long time.



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