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One Anonymous Author and The Epoch Times Vs. The Chinese Communist Party

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posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by google_abcd
Considering the family (husband/wife,parents,son/daughter) of CCP members and the entry level of CCP, Communist Youngth Union which consisted 75% of Chinese students, the percentage of firm supporter of CCP might be up to 30-40%.

It is my understanding that the membership numbers include the affiliated groups such as the Youth League. If the CCP can truly claim a 35-40% support rate then now is the time for them to begin democracy. Those are numbers to be envied for some governments.

If the people of China are so attached to the CCP that they can't live without them, fine. I can accept that decision. All I want is them to have the chance to prove it to the world, on a regular basis, without fear of retribution.

I believe that when the people of China become democratic and are allowed freedom of speech and religion, they will rise to the occasion and become the glorious nation we both know it can be.



And I really doubt the number of persons who quit CCP are real. I have asked many Chinese people and none of them believe there are 5 million people, as the guys from FaLunGong claim, quit the CCP.

They are claiming just under 3.5 million not 5 million. I have no way of verifying the figures given. It is unfortunate than no larger media groups have done an investigation into this yet.



I also noticed that these days millions of Chinese people left their messages in the BBS, forum , saying that Mr. Chen is absolutly a traitor to China and should be sentenced to death. If Mr. Chen dare go back to China, they would like to kill him themselves.

They are entitled to their opinion, as is Mr. Chen. I guess that for his sake it was a good thing Australia gave him asylum.
Mr. Chen says he loves his country but his conscience wouldn't allow him to continue providing information that could result in persecution. He knows the general public hates him now, but hopes that eventually one day they they will understand.

Edited to add a fairly unrelated link:

Since you fellows bought up Dr. Sun Yat-Sen, we have a classical Chinese garden in Vancouver named for him, and it is beautiful.


Dr. Sun Yat-Sen Classical Garden


[edit on 7-8-2005 by Duzey]




posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 01:20 AM
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It is my understanding that the membership numbers include the affiliated groups such as the Youth League. If the CCP can truly claim a 35-40% support rate then now is the time for them to begin democracy. Those are numbers to be envied for some governments.

Surely the 5.5% only refers to the actual number of CCP member because in China most guys working in government and many workers/officers in company owned by China government are CCP members.
As for Youth League, 75% x current Chinese student number( might be 50 million to 100 million), then it should be already 75 million.


They are entitled to their opinion, as is Mr. Chen. I guess that for his sake it was a good thing Australia gave him asylum.
Mr. Chen says he loves his country but his conscience wouldn't allow him to continue providing information that could result in persecution. He knows the general public hates him now, but hopes that eventually one day they they will understand.

History and time will give fair judge on Mr. Chen however according to Chinese culture being a traitor to his own country is the biggest crime.


Since you fellows bought up Dr. Sun Yat-Sen, we have a classical Chinese garden in Vancouver named for him, and it is beautiful.
.

So good. I think I will visit Vancouver one day

Also I want to mention in GuangZhou, the largest city in South China, there are 2 very famous universities and 4 best hospitals are named for honorific Dr. Sun Yat-Sen

www.sysu.edu.cn...

[edit on 7-8-2005 by google_abcd]



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by google_abcd
Surely the 5.5% only refers to the actual number of CCP member because in China most guys working in government and many workers/officers in company owned by China government are CCP members.
As for Youth League, 75% x current Chinese student number( might be 50 million to 100 million), then it should be already 75 million.

Great. Then they are that much closer to having a democratic voter base.


Kidding aside, if the CCP has the support, why not make the move? The benefits that will be gained far outweigh any negatives for them. So they will have to give up the persecution of religious groups and allow freedom of speech.

In one fell swoop the CCP could get most of the world of its back, gain the support of the Vatican and invite everyone to come invest in the country and create work for lots of people. This move would also help with Taiwan in the long run. All this and they could still keep control of the country for at least 50 more years, if not longer.

And they could do it all saying it is their idea, so that they don't feel like people will think they were forced into it.



So good. I think I will visit Vancouver one day


You should definitely visit.
All the Chinese tourists I've seen look like they're enjoying themselves. The Chinese have been in our city right from the start and you can see the influences the culture had almost everywhere.

In some areas the street signs are written in Chinese and English.



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 02:00 AM
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Originally posted by google_abcd
I also noticed that these days millions of Chinese people left their messages in the BBS, forum , saying that Mr. Chen is absolutly a traitor to China and should be sentenced to death. If Mr. Chen dare go back to China, they would like to kill him themselves.


Well, this just illustrates the mindset we're dealing with, does it not? Thank God Mr. Chen can now live in a country where he can criticise the CCP, or even the government of his new host country without fear of persecution, imprisonment or execution. You also realize that the BBS forums are infested with party members whose job is to direct and manipulate thought on those same forums, don't you?
Wanting to kill, in cold blood, someone who refuses to be the tool of tyranny sounds about right for the CCP's sense of justice and human rights. I sense you're a little disappointed that the rest of us don't want to murder Mr. Chen. Maybe you should return to the BBS forums where your bloody ideals are the accepted norm, I'm sure you'll be much happier there.



...there are 2 very famous universities and 4 best hospitals are named for honorific Dr. Sun Yat-Sen.


Dr. Sun Yat-Sen would be rolling in his grave if he knew what the CCP has done to his beloved China and the Chinese people.

But hey, speaking of universities, I prefer Mao Ze Dong's University myself:


Caption: "The army is the university of Mao Zedong thought"


.

[edit on 2005-8-7 by wecomeinpeace]



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 05:05 AM
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Being a CCP member or a League member doesn't necessarily mean they will vote for the CCP in case of a election. in China, one join CCP often not because he/she believes in communism(actually, I doubt if there is any adlut communism-believer in China,even within the CCP, communism has already been actually abondoned), often is that he/she may get benefits from this(especially in government or pulicly-owned enterprises), or just follow others. as for those join the Youth League, they are too young to form their political opinions, and they are under 18.


So if there be an election, it is very doubtable for whom those CCP members will vote.Democray will do great good to china ,but not to those CCP senior officers. and since they holds the Army, they also needn't risk its power to go into democracy.

as for Mr. Chen, he is a traitor to the CCP,(I guess he is a party-member).but not China,in any respect, he is much better then those CCP officers who run away with a large sum of money.those are really traitors to China and their number is quite large, I really don't understand why those "patriots" so eager to "kill" Mr Chen yet ignoring them, seemingly they love China very selectively.



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 05:20 AM
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I decided to update the Mao propaganda poster to make it more faithful to the great Chairman Mao's legacy. Hindsight being 20/20 and all...




posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 10:59 PM
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One current problem is that all other parties in China are too weak to take part in the government. Also with such a low educated rate in China it is not easy to have democratic voter in the next few years. A direct vote of 1.4 billion population people will be a nightmare for the economic increasement.

Personally I think China might be as follows in the future.
1.bending between socialism and capitalism
2.bending between dictator and democratic
3.bending between planning economic and marketing economic

These kinds of concept perfectly match the core of Chinese philosophy:
The Doctrine of Mean.

Because of the greate gap between eastern culture and western culture China won't fully accept the democracy from western countries. Chinese people will try to absorb the useful ideas and abandom the unuseful ones or what they think might be bad to them.

Originally posted by Duzey

Originally posted by google_abcd
Surely the 5.5% only refers to the actual number of CCP member because in China most guys working in government and many workers/officers in company owned by China government are CCP members.
As for Youth League, 75% x current Chinese student number( might be 50 million to 100 million), then it should be already 75 million.

Great. Then they are that much closer to having a democratic voter base.


Kidding aside, if the CCP has the support, why not make the move? The benefits that will be gained far outweigh any negatives for them. So they will have to give up the persecution of religious groups and allow freedom of speech.

In one fell swoop the CCP could get most of the world of its back, gain the support of the Vatican and invite everyone to come invest in the country and create work for lots of people. This move would also help with Taiwan in the long run. All this and they could still keep control of the country for at least 50 more years, if not longer.

And they could do it all saying it is their idea, so that they don't feel like people will think they were forced into it.



So good. I think I will visit Vancouver one day


You should definitely visit.
All the Chinese tourists I've seen look like they're enjoying themselves. The Chinese have been in our city right from the start and you can see the influences the culture had almost everywhere.

In some areas the street signs are written in Chinese and English.


That is because Chinese people are getting rich and CCP/China goverment loose the control for citizens to visit foreign countries.

In fact, nowdays CCP/China government has no restriction for Chinese people to visit or immigrate to foreign countries. However, many countries like U.S, Canada, British still have a very strict VISA policy for China.

Few months ago, I heard that Canada will open its travael market to China later. If so it will be a good news to both Canadian and Chinese people.



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 11:01 PM
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Even in China, the idea of Chairman Mao is out-dated.
Just wondering why you like to mention the things from time to time here?
Come on , buddy, they happened 30-40 years ago, are you still living in a stone age?


Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
I decided to update the Mao propaganda poster to make it more faithful to the great Chairman Mao's legacy. Hindsight being 20/20 and all...



Oct

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 06:11 AM
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Just wondering why you like to mention the things from time to time here?


I think S/he is telling you that the evil cult nature of CCP doesnot change at all:


1. Concoction of Doctrines and Elimination of Dissidents

The Communist Party holds up Marxism as its religious doctrine and shows it off as “the unbreakable truth.” The doctrines of the Communist Party lack benevolence and tolerance. Instead, they are full of arrogance. Marxism was a product of the initial period of capitalism when productivity was low and science was under-developed. It didn’t have a correct understanding at all of the relationships between humanity and society or humanity and nature. Unfortunately, this heretical ideology developed into the international communist movement, and harmed the human world for over a century before the people discarded it, having found it completely wrong in practice.

Party leaders since Lenin have always amended the cult’s doctrines. From Lenin’s theory of violent revolution to Mao Zedong’s theory of continuous revolution under the dictatorship of the proletariat, to Jiang Zemin’s “Three Represents,” the Communist Party’s history is full of such heretical theory and fallacy. Although these theories have constantly caused disasters in practice and are self-contradictory, the Communist Party still proclaims it is universally correct and forces the people to study its doctrines.

Eliminating dissidents is the most effective means for the evil cult of communism to spread its doctrine. Because the doctrine and behavior of this evil cult are too ridiculous, the communist party has to force people to accept them, relying on violence to eliminate dissidents. After the Chinese Communist Party seized the reins of power in China, it initiated “land reform” to eliminate the landlord class, the “socialist reform” in industry and commerce to eliminate capitalists, the “movement of purging reactionaries” to eliminate folk religions and officials who held office before the communists took power, the “anti-rightist movement” to silence intellectuals, and the “Great Cultural Revolution” to eradicate traditional Chinese culture. The CCP was able to unify China under the communist evil cult and achieve a situation where everyone read the Red Book, performed the “loyalty dance,” and “asked for the Party’s instructions in the morning and reported to the Party in the evening.” In the period after Mao and Deng’s reigns, the CCP asserted that Falun Gong, a traditional cultivation practice that believes in Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance, would compete with it for the masses and so intended to eradicate Falun Gong. It therefore initiated a genocidal persecution of Falun Gong, which continues today.

2. Promotion of Leader Worship and Supremacist Views

From Marx to Jiang Zemin, the Communist Party leaders’ portraits are prominently displayed for worship. The absolute authority of the Communist Party leaders forbids any challenge. Mao Zedong was set up as the “red sun” and “big liberator.” The Party spoke outrageously about his writing, saying “one sentence equals 10,000 ordinary sentences.” As an “ordinary party member,” Deng Xiaoping once dominated Chinese politics like an overlord. Jiang Zemin’s “Three Represents” theory is merely a little over 40 characters long including punctuation, but the CCP Fourth Plenary Session boosted it as “providing a creative answer to questions such as what socialism is, how to construct socialism, what kind of party we are building and how to build the Party.” The Party also spoke outrageously about the thought of the “Three Represents,” although in this case actually mocking it when saying it is a continuation and development of Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought and Deng Xiaoping Theory.

Stalin’s wanton slaughter of innocent people, the catastrophic “Great Cultural Revolution” launched by Mao Zedong, Deng Xiaoping’s order for the Tiananmen massacre and Jiang Zemin’s ongoing persecution of Falun Gong are the dreadful results of the Communist Party’s heretical dictatorship.

On one hand, the CCP stipulates in its Constitution, “All power in the People’s Republic of China belongs to the people. The organs through which the people exercise state power are the National People’s Congress and the local people’s congresses at different levels.” “No organization or individual may enjoy the privilege of being above the Constitution and the law.” [2] On the other hand, the CCP Charter stipulates that the CCP is the core of the leadership for the Chinese-featured socialist cause, overriding both the country and the people. The chairman of the Standing Committee of the National People’s Congress made “important speeches” across the country, claiming that the National People’s Congress, the highest organ of state power, must adhere to the CCP’s leadership. According to the CCP’s principle of “democratic centralism,” the entire party must obey the Central Committee of the Party. Stripped to its core, what the National People’s Congress really insists upon is the dictatorship of the General Secretary, which is in turn protected in the form of legislation.

3. Violent Brainwashing, Mind Control, Tight Organization and No Quitting Once Admitted


4. Urging Violence, Carnage and Sacrifice for the Party



more:english.epochtimes.com...



[edit on 8-8-2005 by Oct]



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 11:55 AM
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Sorry for not responding to you guys sooner but work is insanely busy right now, and the weather is far too nice to spend inside.



Originally posted by suihx
in China, one join CCP often not because he/she believes in communism(actually, I doubt if there is any adlut communism-believer in China,even within the CCP, communism has already been actually abondoned), often is that he/she may get benefits from this(especially in government or pulicly-owned enterprises), or just follow others.

I think there may be some truth to this.

I have a friend who lived under an authoritarian regime in his youth, and these are the same reasons he has given me for why he joined the Youth Party of his country. He said that where he grew up the only way he could get a good paying job was to join the party, and that 'all his friends were doing it'.

Unfortunately, he has spent the last 60 years dealing with the fact that he was a youth member of the Nazi party. This creates much guilt for him, and while he did not participate in any atrocities, he still feels ashamed.


Originally posted by suihx
So if there be an election, it is very doubtable for whom those CCP members will vote.Democray will do great good to china ,but not to those CCP senior officers. and since they holds the Army, they also needn't risk its power to go into democracy.

I would like to believe that the majority of Chinese people don't support the CCP. This is only because of the persecution, torture and camps. I want to believe that the majority of Chinese people do not support these kind of actions.

I think the CCP places the People's Army in a tough position. I'm not a soldier, but I would think it must be very hard on them to be used against the people they are supposed to be protecting. The army will be key in any change.


Originally posted by suihx
as for Mr. Chen, he is a traitor to the CCP,(I guess he is a party-member).but not China,in any respect, he is much better then those CCP officers who run away with a large sum of money.those are really traitors to China and their number is quite large, I really don't understand why those "patriots" so eager to "kill" Mr Chen yet ignoring them, seemingly they love China very selectively.

I don't think Mr. Chen is a traitor to China, just the CCP like you said. The impression I get of Mr. Chen is someone who loves his country very much and only wants what is best for the people of China, not the CCP.

I suppose I can sort of understand why a lot of Chinese people are upset with him. I don't think this means they should be calling for his death. If the CCP had been treating the citizens properly, he would have had nothing to come forward with and no reason to defect.


Originally posted by google_abcd
One current problem is that all other parties in China are too weak to take part in the government. Also with such a low educated rate in China it is not easy to have democratic voter in the next few years. A direct vote of 1.4 billion population people will be a nightmare for the economic increasement.

Are there other political parties in China? If so, this is something I am completely unaware of and would like you to tell me about them.

In a democracy it is always nice to have an educated population, but it is by no means a requirement. There are several people I know who I feel are too stupid to be allowed to vote.


It would be a logistical nightmare to set up pollling booths for 1.4 billion people but if democracy was phased in it could be overcome. There are many countries who are happy to send experts to foreign countries to help them organize democratic elections.


Originally posted by google_abcd
These kinds of concept perfectly match the core of Chinese philosophy:
The Doctrine of Mean.

This is what I just don't get. If this is a core Chinese philosophy, how come it seems that one of the most important parts isn't being followed? This is the part I'm talking about:



When one cultivates to the utmost the principles of his nature, and exercises them on the principle of reciprocity, he is not far from the path. What you do not like when done to yourself, do not do to others.

In Western society, we call this the Golden Rule.


Originally posted by google_abcd
Because of the greate gap between eastern culture and western culture China won't fully accept the democracy from western countries. Chinese people will try to absorb the useful ideas and abandom the unuseful ones or what they think might be bad to them.

Every person or nation is different, and what works in one place may not be right for another. The concept of implementing democracy in a more 'Chinese' manner is not something I have an issue with. I just want it implemented, if you hadn't noticed.



Originally posted by google_abcd
Few months ago, I heard that Canada will open its travael market to China later. If so it will be a good news to both Canadian and Chinese people.

I have heard that too. Now that we have been given Approved Destination Status by China, we should make it easier for the tourists to visit us. The financial benefits tourism from China brings are huge.





[edit on 14-8-2005 by Duzey]



posted on May, 12 2012 @ 02:52 AM
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On July 28, 2010, a bombing accident took place in Nanjing, capital of Jiangsu Province, China. The Epoch Times immediately and purposely mis-used the July 2, 2010 photos of the Congo Democratic Republic tanker explosion (which caused death) to exaggerate the negative consequences of the Nanjing bombing insident. The Epoch Times published on July 28 a report entitled “The Cry Day Tragic Big Bang at Least Burned More Than 100 People in Nanjing”. On July 30, the Epoch Times again purposely misused the photos of the July-16 oil pipeline explosion near the city of Dalian to release another news report entitled “Nanjing Big Bang: Official Statements Different from the Folk Parlance”.

The Epoch Times has been questioned and criticized because it frequently publishes false reports.

Bobby Fletcher, an Asian-American social activist, pointed out on August 3, 2006 that what the Epoch Times did was simply to disseminate printed promotional materials produced by Falun Gong at its own expense. He said that“the financial connection between Falun Gong and the Epoch Times is not a secret.”

The New York Crank, a New York-based U.S. freelance writer, wrote on June 21, 2007 to denounce the Epoch Times news articles as confusing, saying that “it (the Epoch Times) is the worst written newspaper on the planet” and “the cause of the Epoch Times is to headline anything bad they can find about China (not a difficult task).”

Greg Butterfield, a member of the U.S. Workers World Party/a renowned journalist, on 14 September 2009 released an article accusing the Epoch Times of not being really “freedom-loving”. He also called on people “not to listen to the fascists of the Epoch Times!”

Peter Hankins from Britain on May 4, 2006 released an article in which he believed that the covert manner of operation embodied in the paper (ie the Epoch Times) was likely to alienate people.



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