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One Anonymous Author and The Epoch Times Vs. The Chinese Communist Party

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posted on Jul, 23 2005 @ 05:59 PM
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sorry double post

*ulshadow hits laptop

[edit on 23-7-2005 by ulshadow]




posted on Jul, 23 2005 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by ulshadow
sorry double post

*ulshadow hits laptop

[edit on 23-7-2005 by ulshadow]


demon hunter is my favourite hero



posted on Jul, 23 2005 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by darkhero

demon hunter is my favourite hero


Hehe, I like demon hunter in metamorphosis form, it's cool and evil. + he kick A$$ in his demon form.



posted on Jul, 23 2005 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by darkhero
Well, so I think Falun Gong is one of the evil things, so does his master Li Hongzhi. I guess you know I am talking who.

I disagree that Falun Gong is evil. I am not a member, but Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance is a good motto for anyone and excellent qualities to aspire to.



I just wonder if he is the GOD, why not he just simply remove the chinese government, and save all the people.

He is accorded with the respect any person would give the founder of their spiritual practice, but nobody says he is a god. I am sure if he was a god, he would have already removed the CCP and would not be living in seclusion in New York.



I know some Falun Gong members, they are nice. But they are always persuading others, that's annoying.

Most evangelical religions do that and I agree, it can be slightly annoying at times. But try to think of it this way, they are only doing it because they truly care about your spiritual well-being. Their hearts are in the right place even if the advice is unwelcome.

And while not directed towards me, I really want to address this:


Originally posted by darkhero
I think we are all normal chinese, maybe according to your guys standard we are brainwashed.

But can you tell us, are your chinese? and did you do anything good to chinese people? Are you trying to save chinese or just make a chaos there?

I have just found out here that this thread has now been blocked in China, and now requires censor circumvention. I am not surprised and knew that it was going to happen eventually, but that does not make me any less angry about it.


If knowledge is power and knowledge is being supressed by the CCP, how is that anything but an attempt to control people? Are they saving the Chinese people by taking their power? Does keeping the population in the dark about what really goes on in the world help them in any way?

The CCP treats the Chinese people as if they are little children who are incapable of taking care of themselves and too stupid to be trusted to make decisions. If they didn't fear what would happen if the Chinese people found out what they are really about, why would they go to such trouble to block the internet?

If people didn't want the Chinese people to do well, they wouldn't care about it. I can only speak for myself, but I want the Chinese people to have what I have. The freedom to practice the religion of their choice without fear of persecution or re-eduction. The ability to see many different sides of a story and come to their own conclusions. I want the Chinese people to be free and democratic. I, unlike the CCP, believe that the Chinese people are capable of such responsiblity and deserve it.

I wouldn't call you brainwashed, I would call you a person who is not yet in possession of all the facts.



[edit on 23-7-2005 by Duzey]



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 03:47 AM
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The falun gong pratitioner is decieving all the world.



posted on Jul, 28 2005 @ 01:46 PM
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How exactly is Falun Gong deceiving the world?

Is it your contention that every country with a free press has been misled by this 'evil cult' and only the CCP, with its restrictive policies and outright lies, can be trusted to tell the world the truth?

Whether or not you care to believe what I am saying, the fact of the matter is that almost every nation in the world is appalled by the human rights abuses and persecution of people based on their religious preference.

And even more disgusting is the CCP's attempt to persecute these people outside of China.


Out of curiousity, have you ever watched 'False Fire'?



The movie "False Fire: China's Tragic New Standard in State Deception" which analyzes the 2001 Tiananmen Square "self-immolation" incident, won a Certificate of Honorable Mention at the 51st Columbus International Film & Video Festival. New Tang Dynasty TV, a non-profit privately owned Chinese TV station, produced the movie. The award ceremony was held in the Kansas Center, Columbus Arts College, Columbus, Ohio.

In the "False Fire" movie, NTD TV station, who aims to provide truthful reporting and supports human rights, systematically analyzed suspicious places in the incident. The analysis exposed that the so-called self-immolation case was very likely directed by the Chinese government to frame Falun Gong and to fabricate excuses for the persecution of Falun Gong.

www.falsefire.com...

Of course, this is very likely blocked in China. If the CCP doesn't trust you or have enough respect for you to allow the citizens of China access to both sides of the story, how can you take what is said about Falun Gong as the 100% truth?



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 12:22 AM
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I stay in China now.Why did I never meet the the things which you guys said?Please tell me why.If you go to China and you can ask the ordinary people what Falun gong is,you can get the facts.We can see who is deceiving.Do you know many Falun gong pratitioner killed themselve's all families just for their successful in realizing their dream of Falun gong which they call "Yuan man"?I meet a real things like that.I wrote it at the another thread.If you want the details ,I can tell you.



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 12:29 AM
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The Falun Gong are wonderful people. I was working down on Wall Street and they were doing these wonderful, peaceful exercises on the steps of Federal Hall right below the statue on the site where George Washington took the oath as first President of the United States.

They had wonderful, informative displays and pamphlets describing their beliefs and the horrible atrocities that the Chinese Communist Party inflicts upon them.

The whole experience was moving for me as an American -- mixing our heritage of freedom and democracy with struggle of a new group of people whose only desire is their own freedom.



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 12:33 AM
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joechino, every group has it's fringe elements and my neighboors were hardly fringe Falun Gong members. It seems to me that just asking Joe Shmoe off the street in Beijing is a great way to learn what the current CCP Public Relations strategy of the day is. I know very well how these Stalinist governments work, most of my family in Poland were subjected to that for over 50 years. The fact is the Stalinist Dictators in China are loosing their grip on power and they are doing everything in they can to stop it!

If they say Invade Taiwan for example to try and shore up it's flagging base they could risk a civil war as from what I am hearing from the local Chinese community in Toronto(very large btw) is that the PLA is starting to fracture. Of course on the 100 % State Run media you'll never hear about any protests or mass resignations because it would be giving their enemy free publicity. Now I don't pretend to know the whole situation in a country with more then a Billion people so please don't pretend you do either. Unless you experience it first hand don't believe a thing your government says! Same goes for western governments except to a slightly lesser extent


Now giving what I know from conversations with several Chinese in my area and what I've read on the web and ATS, the CCP is about to do a CCCP bellyflop


[edit on 29-7-2005 by sardion2000]



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 01:41 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
The Falun Gong are wonderful people. I was working down on Wall Street and they were doing these wonderful, peaceful exercises on the steps of Federal Hall right below the statue on the site where George Washington took the oath as first President of the United States.

They had wonderful, informative displays and pamphlets describing their beliefs and the horrible atrocities that the Chinese Communist Party inflicts upon them.

The whole experience was moving for me as an American -- mixing our heritage of freedom and democracy with struggle of a new group of people whose only desire is their own freedom.


What you have seen is big different from what I have seen before.I see an old women broken her leg,but she never want togo to hospital for cure,only do some falun gong excise.As result,she is a lame now.I see a father kill himself's wife and daughter for his "Yuan man".Maybe you can tell me why they do those things according to Falun gong beliefs.



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 01:48 AM
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Originally posted by sardion2000
joechino, every group has it's fringe elements and my neighboors were hardly fringe Falun Gong members. It seems to me that just asking Joe Shmoe off the street in Beijing is a great way to learn what the current CCP Public Relations strategy of the day is. I know very well how these Stalinist governments work, most of my family in Poland were subjected to that for over 50 years. The fact is the Stalinist Dictators in China are loosing their grip on power and they are doing everything in they can to stop it!

If they say Invade Taiwan for example to try and shore up it's flagging base they could risk a civil war as from what I am hearing from the local Chinese community in Toronto(very large btw) is that the PLA is starting to fracture. Of course on the 100 % State Run media you'll never hear about any protests or mass resignations because it would be giving their enemy free publicity. Now I don't pretend to know the whole situation in a country with more then a Billion people so please don't pretend you do either. Unless you experience it first hand don't believe a thing your government says! Same goes for western governments except to a slightly lesser extent


Now giving what I know from conversations with several Chinese in my area and what I've read on the web and ATS, the CCP is about to do a CCCP bellyflop




I'm not sequacious man.I can see what is black and white.I saw the things which are different from what you said.I am not following the goverment media.I just say what I meet in my life.Do you see it?Maybe you no,but I see it.Because I live in China,now.



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by joechino
What you have seen is big different from what I have seen before.I see an old women broken her leg,but she never want togo to hospital for cure,only do some falun gong excise.As result,she is a lame now


Even if what you say is true (which I doubt) is that a reason to persecute them?

Do you really think the Chinese Communist Party is persecuting the Falun Gong because they won't go to the hospital if injured? Or perhaps it's because they see their ideology of peace and freedom to be a threat to their authoritarian regime?

What do you really think?

[edit on 7/29/2005 by djohnsto77]



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Even if what you say is true (which I doubt) is that a reason to persecute them?

Do you really think the Chinese Communist Party is persecuting the Falun Gong because they won't go to the hospital if injured? Or perhaps it's because they see their ideology of peace and freedom to be a threat to their authoritarian regime?

What do you really think?

[edit on 7/29/2005 by djohnsto77]


That women is my friend's mother.The official know she is falun gong practitioner,but I never saw she was persecuted before and now.She is living very well eccept her lameing leg.Around me I never heard of or saw someone was persecuted.Maybe you can give me a real story.



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by joechino
Maybe you can give me a real story.


How about this: (mods sorry for long quote, but again due to Chinese censors)



Torture Is Breaking Falun Gong, China Systematically Eradicating Group
They told of believers being beaten, shocked with electric truncheons and forced to undergo unbearable physical pressure, such as squatting on the floor for days at a time. Many adherents are also sent to intensive classes where the teachings of Falun Gong leader Li Hongzhi are picked apart by former believers, sometimes friends who have already been tortured into submission.

August 5, 2001

By John Pomfret and Philip P. Pan, Washington Post Foreign Service

BEIJING -- Expanding its use of torture and high-pressure indoctrination, China's Communist Party has gained the upper hand in its protracted battle against the banned Falun Gong spiritual movement, according to government sources and Falun Gong practitioners. As a result, they say, large numbers of people are abandoning the group that presented the party with its most serious challenge since the 1989 student-led protests in Tiananmen Square.


After a year and a half of difficulties in suppressing the movement, the government for the first time this year sanctioned the systematic use of violence against the group, established a network of brainwashing classes and embarked on a painstaking effort to weed out followers neighborhood by neighborhood and workplace by workplace, the sources said.

They said the crackdown has benefited from a turn in public opinion against Falun Gong since five purported members set themselves on fire in Tiananmen Square, leading many Chinese to conclude the group is a dangerous cult.

In recent interviews, the sources and practitioners described for the first time in detail the methodical efforts being used to eradicate the Falun Gong movement, efforts that the Chinese call "reeducation." They told of believers being beaten, shocked with electric truncheons and forced to undergo unbearable physical pressure, such as squatting on the floor for days at a time. Many adherents are also sent to intensive classes where the teachings of Falun Gong leader Li Hongzhi are picked apart by former believers, sometimes friends who have already been tortured into submission.

"I am a broken man," said James Ouyang, 35, an electrical engineer who was forced by labor camp guards to stand facing a wall for nine days and then sent to a brainwashing class for 20 more. "I have rejected Falun Gong. . . . Now, whenever I see a policeman and those electric truncheons, I feel sick, ready to throw up."

Two years ago, the Chinese government outlawed Falun Gong, a nonviolent movement that mixes Buddhist beliefs with slow-motion martial-art-type exercises, and denounced the group as an evil cult and a threat to society. But the underlying reason for the crackdown is the leadership's view that Falun Gong is an independent organization that threatens the Communist Party's monopoly on power.

The crackdown's recent gains have been a boost to both President Jiang Zemin, the Chinese leader most closely associated with the campaign, and the party, which some experts had thought was too fractured and ineffectual to defeat the unusually well-organized group.

"This campaign should teach us not to underestimate the Communist Party," said one party official who has advised the government on the crackdown, but opposes its use of violence. "The party has a powerful ability to synthesize experience and come up with methods to deal with challenges. All the brutality, resources and persuasiveness of the Communist system is being used -- and is having an effect."

A Strategy for Success

At the start of the crackdown, government officials estimated that between 3 million and 6 million people were serious followers of Falun Gong, which translates roughly as Wheel of the Law. About 10 percent, up to 600,000, were considered willing to fight the government crackdown, Chinese officials said. Estimates outside the government have put membership much higher – in the tens of millions, but exact numbers are not available.

The government's campaign against Falun Gong, launched in July 1999, struggled at first, hampered by uneven enforcement and a split between central government leaders, who viewed the group as a threat to the party's rule, and local officials, who did not. But over the past six months, China's security forces have regrouped and devised an approach they say is producing results.

That approach has three ingredients, according to another government adviser.

The first, he said, is violence. The crackdown has always been associated with police and prison brutality, but the adviser said it was only this year that the central leadership decided to sanction the widespread use of violence against Falun Gong members. Citing government reports, he said practitioners who are not beaten generally do not abandon the group.

The adviser said the second element, a high-pressure propaganda campaign against the group, has also been critical. As Chinese society turned against Falun Gong, pressure on practitioners to abandon their beliefs increased, and it became easier for the government to use violence against those who did not. The self-immolation of five purported members in Tiananmen Square on Jan. 23 was a turning point. A 12-year-old girl and her mother died, and the party made the incident the centerpiece of its campaign to discredit Falun Gong. By repeatedly broadcasting images of the girl's burning body and interviews with the others saying they believed self-immolation would lead them to paradise, the government convinced many Chinese that Falun Gong was an "evil cult."

Finally, the security apparatus has begun forcing practitioners to attend intense study sessions in which the teachings of the Falun Gong leader are picked apart by former followers. These brainwashing classes have been key to persuading members to quit practicing Falun Gong, the government adviser said.

"Each aspect of the campaign is critical," he said. "Pure violence doesn't work. Just studying doesn't work either. And none of it would be working if the propaganda hadn't started to change the way the general public thinks. You need all three. That's what they've figured out."

Some local governments had experimented with brainwashing classes before, but in January, Beijing's secret 610 office, an interagency task force leading the charge against Falun Gong, ordered all neighborhood committees, state institutions and companies to begin using them, government sources said. No Falun Gong member is supposed to be spared. The most active members are sent directly to labor camps where they are first "broken" by beatings and other torture, the adviser said.

At the same time, Beijing is getting more efficient at forcing local officials to carry out its orders on Falun Gong. Internal polls conducted by the Central Party School show county-level officials placing a greater priority on eradicating the group, the government adviser said. The 610 office also dispatches teams of investigators to check up on local officials, and a "proper attitude" toward Falun Gong is now required for any promotion, he said.

No One Spared

Neighborhood officials have compelled even the elderly, people with disabilities and the ill to attend the classes. Universities have sent staff to find students who had dropped out or been expelled for practicing Falun Gong, and brought them back for the sessions. Other members have been forced to leave sick relatives to go to class.

A university student in Beijing, Alex Hsu, said he was on his way to a computer lab earlier this year when a school official stopped him and told him he had to take the class. The school had confronted him before about his faith in Falun Gong, but he had never participated in protests and had never been arrested.

Six men surrounded him, forced him into a car and drove him to a hotel near a labor camp outside Beijing. About 20 practitioners were there, all of them students, teachers, university staff members or retired professors. Hsu later learned the class was organized by the Education Ministry. "We were all very scared," Hsu said. "We didn't know what was going to happen next."

By relying on "work units," to which all state employees are assigned, and neighborhood committees to ferret out and convert believers, the government is taking a page from the mass campaign tactics used by the Communist Party under the leadership of Mao Zedong. The plan has been surprisingly effective, especially given other changes that have undermined the party's control over Chinese society, such as the rise of a private business sector and looser rules governing migration and housing.

Each work unit is responsible for paying the "tuition" of its practitioners. And township governments that have been successful in converting Falun Gong members, most notably in Shandong province, have been encouraged to sell their services to other townships, Chinese sources said.

Hsu said school officials told him they paid about $800 to send him to the brainwashing class. The morning after he was picked up, the class began in a cafeteria inside the labor camp. The first lesson was a threat.

"They said if they didn't achieve their goals, if we didn't give up our beliefs, we'd be taken to the labor camp," Hsu said. "Reeducation through labor is a frightening thing to a Chinese person. We all knew we would be harmed and our lives would be in danger. We all knew someone who had died in the camps."

In the cafeteria, Hsu sat at a table with three former Falun Gong members, all of them still detained at the camp. For 12 hours a day, they tried to persuade him to abandon Falun Gong. As the days passed, more "teachers" joined his table, analyzing the writings of Falun Gong leader Li Hongzhi and refusing to let Hsu rest.

"It was mental torture. . . . The pressure just kept growing," Hsu said. "And the threat was always there. You could see these people all had suffered, and you knew what would happen to you if you didn't give in too."

Practitioners are forced to remain in the classes until they renounce their beliefs in writing and then on videotape. On average, the government adviser said, most people abandon Falun Gong after 10 to 12 days of classes, but some resist for as long as 20.

"It was like being drugged with a potion. They came at you fast, frightening you and confusing you," said Sydney Li, a practitioner who escaped from a class organized by neighborhood officials in which he was beaten about the head. "If you weren't a strong believer, it would be easy to be tricked."

The turning point for Hsu came in the third week. He looked up one morning and recognized one of the "teachers" at his table -- a friend, classmate and fellow practitioner who had disappeared earlier in the year. The student looked thin and sickly. He later told Hsu he had been tortured.

"It was a shock. I didn't know he had been sent to the labor camp, and he looked so different," Hsu said. "He didn't say much at first, but the others made him talk. I felt so sad."

A few days later, Hsu signed a statement promising not to practice Falun Gong again and another attacking the group as an evil cult. He read them aloud to his class and in front of a video camera. He wept on the ride back to his university.

"I'm not sure about the others, but I never believed what I was writing," he said. "It was very painful. They forced us to lie. We knew Falun Gong is good, but they forced us to say it was evil."

Hsu has since dropped out of school and gone into hiding because he wants to continue practicing. But he acknowledged many followers have given up Falun Gong completely. There are no reliable estimates of how many followers have abandoned the group.

Those who refuse to submit in the classes are sent to the labor camps, where members face a more systematic regime of violence than in the past, according to practitioners and government sources.

Days of Beatings

The sting of torture was felt by James Ouyang, a slight man with thick glasses and crooked teeth. On the sixth day of beatings this April, he recalled, he began to denounce the Falun Gong.

"I cursed and cursed Falun Gong, but the police said it wasn't enough," he said, running a trembling hand through thinning hair. "They continued beating me for three more days until they were satisfied."

When Ouyang, who asked to be identified only by his Chinese last name and an English name he calls himself, was first arrested in early 2000 for going to Tiananmen Square to unfurl a banner praising Falun Gong, police roughed him up but released him after a week. At the time, the government adviser said, China's security services were inflicting only a "normal amount" of abuse on Falun Gong practitioners. And in many parts of China, police ignored Falun Gong as long as practitioners did not go to Beijing to protest.

The adviser, contradicting some Western reports, said the government previously had no systematic campaign of violence to break Falun Gong. "Before this year, practitioners were beaten if they broke rules in jail or if the police were normally brutal," he said. "It must be understood that anyone in a Chinese jail will get beaten for breaking the rules. Deaths in custody are commonplace."

But the adviser said the policy changed after the Jan. 23 self-immolations and a Communist Party work conference in early February. At that time, party officials concluded the self-immolations and the unrelenting propaganda campaign that followed had turned the public against Falun Gong. The self-immolations seemed to show that Falun Gong was a bizarre cult, and that freed the party's hand, he said.

"The immolations had a huge effect," he said. "Previously, most Chinese thought the crackdown was stupid, like a dog catching a mouse. After those people burned themselves and the party broadcast that little girl's face on TV for almost a month straight, people's views here changed. Now many agree that it's an evil cult. That was a huge defeat for Li Hongzhi."

Li also played into the party's hands. His spokesmen in the United States denied the people who burned themselves were Falun Gong members, disappointing some in China who felt he was rejecting his flock. And Li continued to issue circulars encouraging his followers to confront the

authorities, upsetting people because he seemed unmoved by the growing casualties. So far, Falun Gong says more than 250 followers have died in government custody.

Ouyang was arrested again in April after going to Tiananmen Square to show his support for Falun Gong. This time, he said, police methodically reduced him to an "obedient thing" over 10 days of torture.

At a police station in western Beijing, Ouyang was stripped and interrogated for five hours. "If I responded incorrectly, that is if I didn't say, 'Yes,' they shocked me with the electric truncheon," he said.

Then, he was transferred to a labor camp in Beijing's western suburbs. There, the guards ordered him to stand facing a wall. If he moved, they shocked him. If he fell down from fatigue, they shocked him.

Each morning, he had five minutes to eat and relieve himself. "If I didn't make it, I went in my pants," he said. "And they shocked me for that, too."

By the sixth day, Ouyang said, he couldn't see straight from staring at plaster three inches from his face. His knees buckled, prompting more shocks and beatings. He gave in to the guards' demands.

For the next three days, Ouyang denounced Li's teachings, shouting into the wall. Officers continued to shock him about the body and he soiled himself regularly. Finally, on the 10th day, Ouyang's repudiation of the group was deemed sufficiently sincere.

He was taken before a group of Falun Gong inmates and rejected the group one more time as a video camera rolled. Ouyang left jail and entered the brainwashing classes. Twenty days later after debating Falun Gong for 16 hours a day, he "graduated."

"The pressure on me was and is incredible," he said. "In the past two years, I have seen the worst of what man can do. We really are the worst animals on Earth."

© 2001 The Washington Post Company



[edit on 7/29/2005 by djohnsto77]



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 02:42 AM
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After a year and a half of difficulties in suppressing the movement, the government for the first time this year sanctioned the systematic use of violence against the group, established a network of brainwashing classes and embarked on a painstaking effort to weed out followers neighborhood by neighborhood and workplace by workplace, the sources said.


What is " the sources "?

I don't know how to verify the things which the article points to.If I can ,I will contact with the author for validating the people and the story from that report.But I really doubt it.Otherwise,why can't I get a little information about that.I only believe what I saw by myself.



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 02:46 AM
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The source is The Washington Post one of the top newspapers in the United States. The direct link is here:

Washington Post



posted on Jul, 29 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by joechino
I see a father kill himself's wife and daughter for his "Yuan man".

By 'Yuan man', do you mean the 'Consummation'? If so, that is not my understanding of Consummation, based on my own readings of Falun Gong books, including Zhuan Falun.

But I am not a member, so I will ask some Falun Gong practitioners to further clarify this for me. They are very easy to find in Vancouver, you just need to go to the Chinese Embassy and they will be sitting outside, peacefully and quietly, as they have been for years.

It would be unfair of me to ask you to challenge your beliefs, and not be willing to do the same myself. Sadly, I don't think you will be willing to believe the answers the members will give me if it doesn't agree with your set idea of them.

And the resignations have reached 3,313,013.



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 04:50 AM
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Re Consummation

I have been told that Consummation is very similar to the Buddhist goal of Nirvana. My personal guess is that it was taken directly from Buddhism, as is quite a bit of the Falun Gong practices.

Falun Gong forbids killing, suicide and violence.

To commit murder would guarantee that you will not reach consumation in this life, and will pay for it through Karma for a few more.



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 01:57 PM
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I come from China and this is my first post at ATS :-). It looks like that FLG is such a hot topic here and I'd like to share my ideas about FLG with you.
Firstly, to be honest, I don't believe FLG. I trust God, but I don't believe Li. I think he is a liar, just take some concepts or ideas from Buddhism, Qigong, and other religions. I wonder how many guys here support FLG can read Chinese. If you can read Chinese, go yuming.flnet.org... This is a FLG website and the link is a online book called "Zhuan FaLun", written by Li in 1996. In section 7, you will read Li boasted how effective FLG to illness. Sometimes I wonder why so many white people support FLG and many of them think FLG is such an amazing things that I think it is nonsense. Can anybody here give me an English website about FLG, I doubt there are many differences in Chinese version and English Version of Li's books. Probably most of you don't know, FLG is a way of collecting money for Li at the very beginning. 10 years ago, while FLG was popular in China, practicers had to pay money if they wanted to join the seminar, otherwise, how can Li, a common worker in Jilin, China, immigrated to US with his family, and bought big house in NY.
Secondly, I disgree with Chinese government's action to FLG and I think the CCP administration can make it in a more wise way, not just forbid all FLGer practicing FLG. FLGers has already violated many laws. Many organizers could be charged with commercial fraud, tax evasion, illegal publication, illegal gathering.
Thirdly, for those torture examples in prison, I believe some are true. We still have a long way to go in improving human rights and I hope we are in the right way.



posted on Jul, 30 2005 @ 03:28 PM
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Hello everex605,

First, welcome to ATS, and your first post was a very good one.


Here is where you can find the English version of Zhaun Falun. There are three different translations, by different people/groups there. If you do find any noticible difference, I would love to hear about it, and what areas they are in.

There is a religion (some would disagree with that label) that is practiced in many Western countries called Scientology. People have some of the exact same concerns about this organization. They also have claims of healing illness (by power of the mind) and charge their followers money to advance. In my opinion, it is a personal choice, and I won't demonize anyone for trying to be spiritual and improve their life. It is also similar to Falun Gong in that it has borrowed many Buddhist practices as well.

I do believe that, to an extent, we can control illness within our bodies through meditation and proper thought processes. Obviously, I wouldn't extend that to broken bones, but I don't find the claims that far our. I have been considering learning the exercises, but I will retain my original religious teaching (Protestant), even though it doesn't quite cover my beliefs. But when you're born into a family of ministers, it gets embedded in your brain pretty early.


I agree that the CCP is going about this the completely wrong way. By demonizing Falun Gong, the CCP has given them the way to appeal to Westerners. If they weren't being persecuted, we probably wouldn't be talking about it here.

I also hope, for the Chinese people, that your country is headed in the right direction. As I said before, if we didn't care about you, we wouldn't be so concerned about what happens. All human beings, regardless of country of origin or residence, deserve the same basic human rights.



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