It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

One Anonymous Author and The Epoch Times Vs. The Chinese Communist Party

page: 1
2
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 09:21 AM
link   
Over the past several months I have been closely following an amazing story developing in China. I haven't brought it up before now, due to the fact that almost all of the news is coming from one source, if you can’t read Chinese (which I can't). Therefore I cannot claim that this is 100% factual, but I will use alternate sources wherever they are available. However, the vast majority of the links will be to The Epoch Times. I just wanted to get that out of the way first.

I also apologize in advance for the length, there are just so many different facets to the story, I didn’t exactly know when to stop; and every time I did, I'd remember 'just one more' piece of information I wanted to include. Also, it was quite difficult to pull everything together in one post, so I've just used captions with descriptions and a link to the story in most cases, instead of making things worse (and much longer) by quoting all of them.

In November 2004 The Epoch Times, published the introduction to a series of essays entitled The Nine Commentaries on the Communist Party, or 'Jiuping' by an anonymous author. The commentaries are very critical look at the history and tactics of the Party and the destabilizing effect the party has on not only China, but the entire world. They urge members to renounce their memberships and the next day, the newspaper set up a website, which is in Chinese, so I can't read it, where those who could break the blockade could post their resignation.

In just over just five months the response has been overwhelming, and is growing exponentially.

By the end of February, the total number of people who withdrew from the CCP was only 77,207. By March 10, the number exceeded 200,000. On March 14, the number was over 250,000 and on March 16, it jumped above 300,000.

Between March 27 and April 1, there have been over 100,000 resignations, bringing the total to over 650,000, as of April 4, 2005. The counter can be found on The Epoch Times front page. While not all of these renunciations come from Mainland China, some people are getting through.

One tactic that is used is 'group' renunciations, such as this one representing 172 members of the CCP, Communist Youth League and the Young Pioneers.


The "Nine Commentaries" effectively analyzed the CCP's tyrannical rule over the last fifty years. This helped us truly see the wickedness of the CCP. The CCP gained power relying solely on violent oppression and deceitful lies; it secured existence by brainwashing the Chinese people and deluding their minds. In its fight for power, the CCP brought out the most selfish side of the people and caused us to lose our moral foundation. The CCP has completely destroyed the Chinese moral bearings of over five thousand years, removing kindness and benevolence from among the people. Being a member of the CCP is aiding it to do evil and disregarding human justice and conscience. Only by withdrawing from the CCP and its evil organizations can we truly free our souls and uphold justice in this world. Therefore, we firmly declare our resignation from the CCP, the CYL, the Young Pioneers and all other evil organizations.

And another representing a group of 18. I chose to post this quote because of the interesting claims made in the renunciation.


CCP officials have become corrupt from the top level to the grassroots. They take people's hard-earned money but do every bad thing from wine and dine to prostitution and gambling. They led to the degradation of morality and deprived people of their means to live.

China's news agencies create rumors everyday. Insiders said that over 3,000 people died in the recent Shenyang coalmine explosion, yet CCTV said there were only 203 deaths. During an explosion at our factory, seven people died at the scene, but the news said there were only two death cases. In our area, some retired construction workers have had no pension for eight years already. They tried to bring their case to appeal offices, but did not win in the end. Later, over 40 elderly workers laid on the railway tracks in order to get some attention, but the news said Falun Gong practitioners committed group suicide. China's news agencies broadcast big lies to deceive 1.3 billion people everyday. Today, we finally woke up. We are very determined to resign from the Youth Pioneer, Youth League, and the CCP to get rid of the CCP evil's manipulation.

This resignation story is also somewhat important, as it is one of the very few mentions, in English, I could find an alternate source for.

One day I gave him the "Nine Commentaries" to read. He then started to reflect on the crimes the party has committed in their history, and the terrible situations in our current society. He accepted, to some extent, what the articles have exposed. As a result, we had common ground from which we could discuss the topic.

Soon, a special column was created on the epochtimes.com website entitled, "Quit the CCP." I told my father about the column.

-snip-

Seeing my father gradually understand the issue, I brought up the topic of withdrawal from the CCP again. He said to me in a serious manner: "This is my right, please let me think it over." That night I sent forth righteous thoughts to help him get rid of the control or influence from the evil spirit of the CCP. My father gave me his alias the next afternoon and agreed to let me help him write the solemn declaration. In the end, a veteran party member broke away from the evil Party.

external image

Broadcast Intercepts

In the past month, there have been three times when someone has managed to intercept a satellite and broadcast programming into Mainland China, on March 14,17 and 29. The Epoch Times has reported that these are broadcasts about the Nine Commentaries, with excerpts being read. Asia Satellite has claimed that it was Falun Gong spreading propaganda about their 'cult', but Falun Gong has denied any knowledge of the broadcasts or the contents.

Clandestineradio.com has an entry but they are using the same source I am.

It also has an entry for Sound of Hope, which is a New York based station who is very involved in the campaign. Apparently, through P2P BitTorrent technology, they can get past the censors, and give the people in China access to the commentaries and programming. This link is to a story the station has posted about how the Nine Commentaries are spreading through China, and mentions the Maintaining Advancement Movement, which has it's own little section below.

The Red Army

A retired Chinese officer, Mr. Lin Zhengyang, who now lives in Seattle has claimed that the commentaries are being widely circulated throughout the army. According to him, most of the forces have access to internet bars and all have private email accounts, while all officers have their own computers. They are receiving copies of the commentaries from overseas, and are passing it along to those who have not seen it yet.

This is a small excerpt from an interview with the organizer of a group resignation reported to be from 46 senior party members working in China’s military nuclear industry.

We all had not turned in fees for the CCP for over 4 years [according to the CCP’s Charter, those who do not turn in membership fees or join CCP activities for over half a year would be considered as having automatically resigned]. All of us had something splendid in our past careers. But think about what we did? Whatever the Kuomintang [the nationalist party defeated by the CCP in 1949] did not do—the CCP did; the bad things CCP asked its people not to do, CCP itself did all of them.
-snip-
There are many in the military industry who stopped turning in the CCP membership fees…In the Past, we all had some naive illusions about the CCP. After learning from our sons and daughters and friends and colleagues, what it did in the past few years, we were all shocked.


March 26 rally in Taiwan

It was reported that at the March 26 rally in Taiwan, tens of thousands of copies of the commentaries were handed out on the streets. Banners were being displayed promoting the commentaries, and booths were set up to help people submit their resignations.



Publicly Posted Resignations

In the past two weeks, it has been reported that in a few different cities in Mainland China, there have been incidents of people posting their resignations in a public place. While they are torn down very quickly, some people do get to read them and it spreads awareness of the campaign. Postings have been reported in Dalian and a town in Jilin.




Russian Paper Publishes Commentaries

Russia's Izvestia newspaper was reported to have recently published the commentaries in Russian, which resulted in a lot of positive feedback from Russians who could sympathize with the plight of the Chinese.

Banner

The following is a banner purported to pertain to the Nine Commentaries. It is supposed to say 'The Nine Commentaries' is the best Antidote to the Anti-Secession Law', and was taken at the crossroad of South Jianguo Street and East Heping Street during the Taiwan rally. For all I know it could read 'Eat at McDonalds'. Anyone who reads Chinese would be a big help here. Please correct me if this is not true, I honestly want to know what this really says.



Related Events?

The Maintaining Advancement movement

The CCP has instituted a new program, called the Maintaining Advancement Movement (mentioned above in the Intercepts section), with a new slogan of establishing a harmonious society, which asks people to publicly reaffirm their allegiance to the CCP. The Epoch Times claims that this is in direct response to the massive resignations.

LA arrest for man stealing copies of The Epoch Times

Epoch Times staffers first became concerned when they noticed how quickly the copies of their newspaper disappeared, with a marked increase after the commentaries were published. They decided to set up a sting operation, staking out distribution centers armed with video cameras. For almost two weeks, they taped the same man coming into several different centers and taking all of the copies of The Epoch Times, shortly after they had been dropped off. Several other publications were left untouched.

Staffers took the tape to the police, who then arrested the man at his home. He claims that he was taking the papers to sell them for recycling money, but seeing as The Epoch Times was the only one of several Chinese language papers removed, perhaps that wasn't his only reason. Staff at a local recycling facility identified him as a frequent customer.



Epoch Times Blocked by Google China

It was nice to able to find a couple of links on ATS I could use in this story. Mynaeris posted this information about how, shortly before the commentaries were published, The Epoch Times was blocked by Google China because of supposed pro-Falun Gong leanings.

My Other ATS Link

A week ago, Mayet posted the ATSNN story Protests over China's Chatroom Crackdown. While it may be completely unrelated to this story, it is a nice example of how hard the CCP is trying to maintain control over the flow of information.

Reporters Without Borders

Reporters Without Borders has listed five journalists or cyber-dissidents that have been arrested in China over the past four months. Three of them, Zheng Yichun, Zhang Lin and Shi Tao, all have something in common. They contributed to The Epoch Times.

Warnings to media executives and their families

These both come from the same report.

When Lin Xiaoxu, Vice-President of Sound of Hope radio, called his family to wish them Happy New Year, he heard about a 'special greeting' they had received from State Security. His family was asked about his activities, and then instructed to pass along the message that China welcomes him home, and his safety would be guaranteed.

On February 28, the Vice-President of New Tang Dynasty TV, Ma Annan, received a call from his relatives back home wishing him a Happy New Year, and also to tell him that Beijing's National Security Bureau had called the Ma family multiple times to send greetings. The Bureau made it clear that they have him under surveillance and know all of his actions, and the whereabouts of his family.

New Tang Dynasty TV Cancelled In China

And in an interesting twist in the New Tang Dynasty TV story, they have this notice up on their website:


One year ago, NTDTV made a business partnership with Eutelsat to transmit NTDTV's signal to Asia and China. Since then, NTDTV is the only non-governmental TV that broadcasts to China uncensored and in Mandarin. Working closely with Eutelsat, we opened a historic "open satellite window" in the great wall of information control that is forcibly maintained by Beijing. Through that open window we have broadcast a wide variety of programs, including the European Union debate about China policy as well as many messages sent expressly to our Chinese viewers on the Eutelsat W5 Asia Beam by dozens of elected European leaders. We broadcast, "live" and in simultaneous translation, the US Presidential debates which had an immense response from our viewers in China. We broadcast programs on human rights in China, Article 23 in Hong Kong, economic development and corruption, traditional Chinese culture, and so much more.

Now we are just days away from Eutelsat stopping NTDTV's transmission to Asia and China. Eutelsat is preparing to slam shut the "open satellite window" this week. Instead of expanding the historic opening of the world’s largest society to the free flow of broadcast information, Eutelsat is choosing to help Beijing reassert full content control over satellite broadcasting. In fact, Eutelsat's Chairman, Mr. Giuliano Berretta has recently signed what Eutelsat called a "historic partnership agreement" with the same agency of the Chinese Government that instructed Eutelsat to remove NTDTV from the W5 Asia Beam. And Mr. Berretta is primed for still more favors from Beijing, in return for putting Eutelsat's Inter-Governmental Convention as well as various European and international conventions in the company shredder.

The last day of broadcast could be as soon as April 15, 2005. Reporters Without Borders has been allowed to become a party to the court challenge against Eutelsat.

I think I have brought up most of the relevant things I have been able to gather on this. Again, apologies for the lack of diversity in sources, but being China, and not a language I can read, it is very hard to find corroborating sources. The Epoch Times has a very large circulation and has been in operation since 2000, and I have seen it used here occasionally without causing a stir; but without more sources, I can't be completely sure of all the news. But what if it is true?
While it is just a small percentage of the total membership, around 1% I think, these are still pretty significant numbers.

I wanted to share the story with you and get your thoughts and opinions on this. If all this is really going on, I'm concerned about what could happen to the people involved. How far will the CCP go to suppress this growing movement?

*edited to remove link that no longer works*

[edit on 5-4-2005 by Duzey]




posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 11:32 AM
link   
great post. i can't help you, but this was truly a surprising change. i always think of china as some dark totalitarian state that is unassailable. it would be nice to see it break down from the inside. that would be one less excuse for arms build-up.



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 04:13 PM
link   
The Epoch Times has held rallies in the US and UK, to promote awareness of the campaign. Most recently they were reported to have spoken at the UN Human Rights Convention currently underway, in a seminar entitled 'Communism and Human Rights". It appears to have quite well received:



The audience warmly welcomed all the speeches. More than half of the conference hall was filled with people, something which is rarely seen in a U.N. Human Rights Convention seminar run by a non-government organization. During the discussion after the speeches, the audience asked many questions about The Epoch Times: its mission, its staff, its distribution volume, and the “Nine Commentaries.” The speakers addressed these questions. Two representatives of the Chinese U.N. Convention from mainland China also asked questions. They mainly stated their perspectives, saying that the speakers do not know China well and that “The Nine Commentaries” twist the facts. The main speaker tried his best to address their questions. Upon asking for clarification from the representatives of the Chinese U.N. Convention which part of the “Nine Commentaries” is not true, the representatives could not give an answer. One lady who was tortured in a labor education center and worked as a slave labor because of her belief in Falun Gong used her own experiences to show the audience that the facts in “The Nine Commentaries” are all true.

-snip-

The news spread quickly. Reporters of the U.N. Convention went to find the local staff of The Epoch Times to ask for the special edition of the “Nine Commentaries.” One hundred copies of the special edition were taken quickly. The staff had to go back to their office to get another 300 copies.

Epoch Times


It would be amazing if this kind of change could occur from the inside. While the numbers are relatively small at the moment, in comparision to total membership, they are growing like crazy. In fact, this morning when I posted this originally, the figures were between 650,000 and 660,000. When I just checked a minute ago, the figure was almost 685,000!

I just worry about those involved in the movement. I would think that the author of Jiuping is probably living outside China, but who knows? After Tiananmen Square, and with the upcoming Olympics, this could become another bloodbath.

The bravery of those in Mainland China who support this campaign, or have publicly resigned, is incredible, IMO.



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 04:31 PM
link   
I live in Shanghai. Every single link and website in your post has been blocked from within China, and I'm not just talking google searches. If you email some of the Chinese language material to me, I will translate it and post it here, unless the CCP decides to block ATS as well.



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 04:50 PM
link   


Somehow, I just don't find that incredibly surprising.

I do have some Chinese sites and what not, that are supposed to pertain to this. I will do some digging around, and send you whatever I can. I'll send some links, and cut and paste the info, because they will probably be blocked too. I do have some photos of what are supposed to be resignations, I will send those as well.

Thanks for the offer wecomeinpeace! That was one of the main reasons I wanted to post this, to get some Chinese language skills at work on this.

I hope we don't get ATS blocked in China, there would be some annoyed members



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 05:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Duzey
I hope we don't get ATS blocked in China, there would be some annoyed members


Yeah, then I'd have to get a life.



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 05:06 PM
link   
Excellent work, Duzey. This is all news to me and very, very interesting. There is a large Chinese population here in Toronto. I'll see if I find anything of interest and post here to add to the debate.

Look forward to seeing what wecomeinpeace finds out.

Great stuff...now this is why I come to ATS



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 05:14 PM
link   
wecomeinpeace, can you see the pictures? Not sure, because if the site is blocked.....


I have 3 close-ups up publicly posted resignations, where the print is legible (if you read Chinese). I want to post them for you to translate, but I am wondering if I should upload them here first.



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 05:51 PM
link   
AlwaysLearning,

The Epoch Times are going to be holding a forum at The University of Ottawa on April 12. While not technically 'in your neighbourhood', it would interesting to see if there is any coverage in the surrounding area, or if you notice any publicity for it.



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 11:42 AM
link   
I can' t see any of the images in your post. The websites are completely blocked here.

With the assistance of a Chinese associate, I translated two of the resignation posters that you emailed to me, as well as the protest banner. I will translate the third poster and the name list tomorrow if folks are truly interested (I could be at risk of deportation if noticed and my actions are considered as aiding "subversive elements"
). I must say, knowing some of the brutal history of China under communist rule and living here for three years, I was almost moved to tears while translating these.

=======================================================================


"Declaration of Resignation ["Resignation" here implies "from a political party"]

I am an average woman from Jiang City. When I was young I naively joined the [Communist] Young Pioneers, later the Communist Youth Brigade, and finally the Communist Party.

Having read the Nine Criticisms of the Communist Party article exposing the evil nature of the Chinese Communist Party, as published in the foreign newspaper The Epoch Times, only now do I realise that the entire 80 year history of the CCP has been naught but lies, deceit, brutal war, famine, fascism, massacre and terror....

I hereby emphatically declare my uncompromising resignation from the evil organisations that constitute the Young Pioneers, the Communist Youth Brigade, and the Chinese Communist Party, and am determined to erase that organisation's infernal stain. ["Stain" here also implies "mark", or "brand" as in 'livestock'.]

Eternal Peace

Ji Lin Province - [Name]
March 20, 2005

=======================================================================

Translated from the image emailed to me as "resign3.doc"

"Active Service Military Officer's Declaration of Resignation From The Party and Organisations

I am a [Chinese] military officer currently in active service. In my youth I joined the Young Pioneers and the Communist Youth Brigade. Later, for the dream of serving the motherland, for the dream of fighting for and devoting my life to the people of China, I joined the Chinese Communist Party. However, as the years have passed and my life experience has increased, I have seen more and more the exhibition of every type of corrupt behaviour by the leaders of the Chinese Communist Party. Especially prominent is the propagandist education throughout the entire military, which teaches that the Communist Party's interests [also implies "benefit" or "gain"] is held above all; above all reasonable morals and above the interests of the nation; propaganda which teaches that what the party tells you to do - you do; who the party tells you to kill - you kill; and when the party sends you to die - you go to your death. There are administration officials [unclear if this refers to the CCP, the military, or both] who plot and stab others in the back, who believe the end justifies all means, who kill first and ask questions later, who deceive and trick, who steal, beat and rape, and who use the most poisonous of methods for personal gain. Under the influence of the Communist Party's propaganda, one's heart becomes uglier and uglier, and one's morals steadily decay.

I would like to express my sincere thanks for the gift, entitled "Nine Criticisms of the Communist Party", that The Epoch Times has given to the people of China - a gift that has awoken me and made me see, clearly and completely, the evil nature and the true face of the Chinese Communist Party, as well as realising that the destruction of the CCP is the people's true wish; there is no denying this. Today's CCP is fallen, and has become the Party which not only initiated, but has grown to be the world's greediest and most corrupt political party. As such I am resolved to sever all connections with the evils of the Communist Party, and I hereby solemnly declare my resignation and withdrawal from any and all Communist Party organisations that I have been involved with in the past. Starting from today, I will be a true and good person. Declaration made by: [Name]

Note: Mainland Chinese citizens resigning from the Communist Party may use a pseudonym or nickname for equal effect. You may also sign your name below if you so choose.

March 25, 2005"

=======================================================================



This picture was taken in Taiwan and states:

"The Nine Criticisms is The Best Remedy For The Anti-secession Law
The Nine Criticisms has sparked Chinese people's resignation from the Chinese Communist Party across the globe (already more than 500,000 resigned)."



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 11:47 AM
link   

Originally posted by Duzey
The Epoch Times are going to be holding a forum at The University of Ottawa on April 12. While not technically 'in your neighbourhood', it would interesting to see if there is any coverage in the surrounding area, or if you notice any publicity for it.


If I hear anything about it, I'll report back here.



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 02:27 PM
link   
wecomeinpeace,

Thank you so much for the translation service! Those are indeed very moving statements. I applaud them for having the courage to post such letters, and risking all sorts of unpleasantness.

I don't want to get you or your friend in any trouble, though. I know this is considered 'subversive'.
Oh yeah, we're bad! I do feel a little uncomfortable with sending you more right now, as I really don't want to cause any problems for you and your friend. I'm not quite sure how paranoid I should be about it


I wanted some confirmation that these documents were what they were said to be, because I had no way of knowing for sure, and you have done that for me.
I'll leave it be for now, most of the other documents are resignations as well, and I would guess that any links I could send you would be blocked as well.

AlwaysLearning,

If anyone can sniff it out, I'm sure it would be you.
This is the first time I've been able to find out about a seminar before it happened, so I'm curious to see if there is any publicity at all.

Over 703,000 resignations now!



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 03:25 PM
link   
No worries, glad to help out. Fascinating for me too.
Send some more my way of you like. Seriously, I don't think it'll be a problem unless I start actively promoting the movement. Arrr...they'll ne'er take me alive. Arrr...


If this ever becomes a big issue, the CCP will be sure to blame it on Taiwanese and American "foreign instigators" just as they did with the Tiananmen Square uprisings and subsequent massacre. At the time of the protests and for years after, they launched massive propaganda campaigns claiming that the students and workers were misled by CIA and Taiwanese intelligence plants.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 08:57 AM
link   
....

The Epoch Times is a front for all anti-Chinese government movements to band together. It started off as a offshoot of the Falungong movement but quickly gained money and support from Taiwan independence supporters and American symphathizers(spelling).

Actually, most of the stuff on it is rubbish, i'am not pro-Communist but i'am pro-China. The Epoch Times is simply a front for all sorts of crap.

One of they recent articles said that China had the Ebola virus epedemic that had killed millions......(denied by the WHO)

P.S. Undoubtley, most of yours would probably come back at me saying that i'am a brainwashed commie...blah blah blah. Before you do so, know that my Great-grand uncle was a colonel in the Koumintang and was arrested by the Communists.

The Epochtimes is simply crap, ask any overseas Chinese, unaffiliated with the CCP.

Some of they writers write stuff about the end of China, with Chaos and internal war with glee. It's like they want it to happen.

Mods, this topic is flame-bait and it should belong in the Politics section since that manifesto was not written recently

EDIT: Think about it, if China was really so terrible, why would most, if not all of us overseas ethnic Chinese, who have relatives in China, regularly go back, support the Chinese government?

You can't use the same brainwashing excuse since most of us overseas Chinese are educated wholly overseas.

In fact, i'am beginning to start to think the same way as bush-supporters do on the U.S, some people hate to see China succeeding so they will do anything to attack China, it's like the same form of Jealousy that see people attack the U.S, except on a different scale.

[edit on 11-4-2005 by rapier28]



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 10:56 AM
link   

Originally posted by rapier28
Mods, this topic is flame-bait and it should belong in the Politics section since that manifesto was not written recently


Actually, I did mention twice that I was unsure of the source, and that I couldn't be sure how much of it was 100% true. That's why I posted it. To get feedback on the story. Aside of on this board, I don't know anyone who lives in China.

The one thing that is confirmed is the cancellation of NDTV. Do you care to comment on that?

Thanks for your feedback, because that is the sort of information I was looking for. I don't trust the news 100% when I only have one source. Might I inquire as to where your information comes from? See previous sentence.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 11:34 AM
link   
No worries.

The knowledge of Epoch Times is not a secret to any overseas Chinese or Chinese students overseas. The Epoch Times is a free newspaper distributed to Chinese on corners of major streets, thats where they distribution comes from.

As for the proof of Falungong and Taiwan involvement, there is not "we are falungong" sticker. But think of it this way.

The People's Daily blabbers on about the Communist Party line, etc etc.

The Epoch times is the exact opposite of that, if the People's daily said the sky was blue, the Epoch would say it's red.

-----

I'am surprised that the NDTV was even allowed to broadcast in the first place, China has a extremely limited editorial on it's media.

When i go back to China, i live in a designated "foreigners" area (i hold Australian passport), and i'am allowed to view the BBC, NHK, CNN, etc etc etc.

Normal Chinese are not allowed to view it, the only non-government channel in China is the Hong Kong Pheonix TV, but that has a Pro-Beijing editorial line.

-----

Yeah, but you shouldn't rely on the EpochTimes, most of us ethnic-Chinese that are overseas regards a bigger joke then the People's Daily.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 12:26 PM
link   
I do find the whole NDTV thing quite confusing. It would have been easier to deny them from the get-go, then allow them to broadcast for a time, and then cancel the contract. Bad 'optics' and all that.

As for your comments about the validity of the paper and the coverage of China, fair enough. The only comment I can make about the paper is that the Canadian coverage is quite accurate.

Oh and it's not just for Chinese people anymore. They hand them to me when I get off the train in the morning.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 02:53 PM
link   
i find it quite ignorant to discard the views of the epoch times as 'anti-china', etc. in a country where you are 'allowed' to watch only certain stations, and the 'media' is by nature propoganda. ignoring the voice of dissent simply because it is the voice of dissent is to embrace and support ignorance and totalitiarianism.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 05:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by rapier28
One of they recent articles said that China had the Ebola virus epedemic that had killed millions......(denied by the WHO)


I have another question. You piqued my interest with the quote above, so I went looking for more info, as I had not seen this claim in the Epoch Times. I am reading the English versions, not the Chinese.

Are you talking about the claim that was recently made stating that there was Ebola in Shenzhen, Guangdong? The only claim I have heard of this nature was around March 25, 2005, and it reported four deaths, which were denied.

I'm just wondering because every report I have found (in English), with the exception of The People's Daily, attributed the remarks to boxun.com, with them picked up and reprinted by Lianhe Zaobao. The People's Daily attributes The Epoch Times. There is no story regarding this on The Epoch Times site, and I can't read boxun.com or Zaobao.

Do you know of any relationship between these two papers and boxun.com? Or am I thinking of a completely different story?

Edited to add: Actually, I have two questions. The second one is as follows: Is there any 'independant' (not state-run) source of news, that is available in English, that you would be able to recommend? Where would the Chinese person who didn't live in China, and had a tragic accident that left him unable to understand Chinese, turn to get the news from home?

[edit on 11-4-2005 by Duzey]



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 10:05 PM
link   
billybob,

the EpochTimes would've had some credibility if it was the voice of dissent, it is not. Most of it's articles has gone from anti-Communist to anti-Chinese in general, fanned by the Taiwanese independence movement.

Think logically, how does the Epochtimes get it's funding to deliver millions of copies worldwide?

Are you saying that Chinese dissidents, who are usually poor and few in number, funded a paper to distribute freely in English and Chinese?

-----

Yeah, your right Duzey, it reported 4 or so deaths but said "possibly millions were covered up by the Communst government. This was in the Chinese version.

I know about Boxun, it has pictures of executions and stuff, don't really know if there's a relationship.


-----

Yes, read Hong Kong newspapers, they have a very good editorial line, if you can, subscribe to the South China Morning Post, it requires a fee though. From the mainland, China Daily is ok, it's run by the government but has very little propaganda in it, it just doesn't report some things.

By and large, english versions of the Chinese government-run news has very little propaganda compared to the Chinese version.

sites.

China Daily - Government run, mostly ok

The Standard - leading HK business newspaper

South China Morning Post - Possibly the best newspaper in HK, but requires subscription

The Asian Times - Great articles covering Greater China (Mainland, HK, Macao, and Taiwan) as well as the rest of Asia.

Most of the time, even Xinhua isn't that bad, just read it with a grain of salt.

Hope that helps.

[edit on 11-4-2005 by rapier28]



new topics

top topics



 
2
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join