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Linking freemasonry with conspiracy

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posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 05:51 AM
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I am aware that Masons and Masonry are all too often the target for conspiracies and plots to take over the world etc. I am also aware that there are several very well educated Masons frequenting this site who seem to have a vast library of knowledge about there fraternity.
The bottom line is only Masons know the answer, so it is likely that the truth may never be public knowledge. Anyway, im not going to argue for or against these theories on this thread, but what i will say is this...
Its not surprising masons are always the suspects regarding these theories, for these reasons:

1) The Secrecy. (If there was a murder investigation in my neighbourhood, and I was the only person who refused to give information, that instantly makes me look like the suspect.)

2) The shere size and global coverage of Masonry. (with members from all social classes, in most countries would make an ideal platform for global conspiracies.)


3) The fact the general public dont understand the rituals and dogmas involved with freemasonry. (If Joe Average accidentally saw a Masonic ritual through a lodge window, he could be forgiven for thinking that some sort of satanic ritual was taking place.)

My point with 3 is that people are genrerally afraid of what they dont understand. I have read a small amount about Masonic rituals, and (please correct me if im wrong) but I believe they are purely symbolic rituals that dont "raise the devil" or "steal human souls" etc.

Perhaps the best way for Masons to remove the suspicion and accusations that surround their fraternity, is to educate the masses on their customs, rituals, purpose etc. Have an "open lodge" day or authorise a documentary that tells the truth about themselves.

AllseeingEYE eagerly awaits constructive comments from both masons and non-masons.




posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 07:04 AM
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I have a pretty good idea as to what is taught in Freemasonry and its not negative. Infact its extremly positive but they shouldent horde this knowledge to themselves and fellow mystick schools. Some of the knowledge being withheld from the public is like withholding the true identity of one's parents
.

Also, he Masons use certain positive knowledge in a negative way for example they use the planetary movment and sun cycles and the earths merdian ley lines and vortex grids and exploit them by syncing events to them at the right time for example, a certain national or international event will take place at the time the earths energy field is such a way to benifit the event the best becuase the earths energy field effects human behaviour, thought and emotion. It basicly dictates it.

Corrospond any major event throught history and present day with the movment of the planets and the sun cycles and you will see they are in perfect sync with eachother. This is why sun "worship" is the core of Freemasonry or if not the core, is one of the major parts of it all.

Also, its obvious the majority of Masons are innocent and its only the small echelons of the higher degrees that are picked for high-up jobs to continue the evil agendas.

Masonry is just one of the mystik knowledge schools where the Illuminati recruit from because the knowledge taught is immensly benificial to the global agenda.

Also, the core of Masons... the majority of them are the worker bees of the Illuminati since they occupy small-scale high-up positions such as heads of police, headmasters of schools and colleges and universities and local councils, ect, ect and with the Mason Blood Oath the Mason candidate takes before he can join Freemnasonry binds him to the will and command of the Grand Master of his lodge and the Grand Master is the puppet of the 33rd Degree Scottish Rite of Freemasonry HQ in Washington D.C which in-turn, they answer to the will of the Illuminati.

A group of people with power bound by oath to help eathother out and to obey the grand master of his lodge is a very powerfull and very dangerous group and thats why you always see Fremasonry linked with major world events such as the French Revolution, ect.



[edit on 5-4-2005 by Driver]



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 07:52 AM
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Hi AllseeingEYE

Good post, and the three points you raise are debated inside the Craft as well as outside I can assure you. Perhaps you'll allow me to give further opinion.



1) The Secrecy. (If there was a murder investigation in my neighbourhood, and I was the only person who refused to give information, that instantly makes me look like the suspect.)


IMO the secrecy of freemasonry is a myth. There is no secrecy, what people get so worked up about is the Privacy. An organisation can't be secret if it's listed in the Yellow pages, meeting places are signed and known, and membership lists are available to the general public.

What goes on behind closed doors is private, be it the masonic lodge door, a boardroom door of a corporate, or your bedroom door.

If there are people out there who have a problem with other folks privacy, I wish they'd just come out and say it, and not pussyfoot around calling it secrecy.



2) The shere size and global coverage of Masonry. (with members from all social classes, in most countries would make an ideal platform for global conspiracies.)


Indeed it would, if it were a global organisation. But like the countries in which they exist, Grand Lodges are entirely independent of each other - they have their own governing structure and occasionally fall out with each other over various things.



3) The fact the general public dont understand the rituals and dogmas involved with freemasonry. (If Joe Average accidentally saw a Masonic ritual through a lodge window, he could be forgiven for thinking that some sort of satanic ritual was taking place.)


The information is all out there for Joe Average to study if he wishes to - public library is a good place to start. And as there is nothing satanic about masonic ritual, I don't agree with your view of Joe's assessment. It's formal and stylised, to be sure; but so is mass, the opening of parliament and the Changing of the Guard.


My point with 3 is that people are genrerally afraid of what they dont understand.


I agree with you completely, and that's why freemasons get so frustrated at fools who (for their own reasons) deliberately peddle disinformation about freemasonry.


Perhaps the best way for Masons to remove the suspicion and accusations that surround their fraternity, is to educate the masses on their customs, rituals, purpose etc. Have an "open lodge" day or authorise a documentary that tells the truth about themselves.


Open days are done on a regular basis, but the problem is that some people will simply not believe what they see and what they are told.



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by Driver
I have a pretty good idea as to what is taught in Freemasonry and its not negative. Infact its extremly positive but they shouldent horde this knowledge to themselves and fellow mystick schools. Some of the knowledge being withheld from the public is like withholding the true identity of one's parents.


There is no esoteric knowledge held back within freemasonry that can't be found elsewhere. The bulk of it can be found in the Bible. Pick it up and read it and you will be some way down the road to understanding the lessons of freemasonry.


Also, he Masons use certain positive knowledge in a negative way for example they use the planetary movment and sun cycles and the earths merdian ley lines and vortex grids and exploit them by syncing events to them at the right time for example, a certain national or international event will take place at the time the earths energy field is such a way to benifit the event the best becuase the earths energy field effects human behaviour, thought and emotion. It basicly dictates it.


No idea what you're talking about.


Corrospond any major event throught history and present day with the movment of the planets and the sun cycles and you will see they are in perfect sync with eachother. This is why sun "worship" is the core of Freemasonry or if not the core, is one of the major parts of it all.


Oh dear. You started out quite promisingly but starting to lose it a bit now. Worship is NOT at the core of freemasonry, and in fact you won't find it anywhere in freemasonry at all.


Also, its obvious the majority of Masons are innocent and its only the small echelons of the higher degrees that are picked for high-up jobs to continue the evil agendas.


No. Oh dear me no. No higher degrees, no evil agendas. Dear oh dear...


Masonry is just one of the mystik knowledge schools where the Illuminati recruit from because the knowledge taught is immensly benificial to the global agenda.


Have you been reading Icke, or one of the other potty authors who attribute anything and everything to the freemasons?


Also, the core of Masons... ... they answer to the will of the Illuminati.


I can't even bring myself to repeat your twaddle in quote marks as it's so much unmitigated and unadulterated nonsense.


A group of people with power bound by oath to help eathother out and to obey the grand master of his lodge is a very powerfull and very dangerous group and thats why you always see Fremasonry linked with major world events such as the French Revolution, ect.


No oaths in freemasonry. Obligation to assist freemasons - true - but only after (a) God, (b) the country and (c) your family. Also, must not break the law of the land or the moral law in doing so. Also obligated to assist non-masons in a similar way.

No obligation to obey the Grand Master. Pure fantasy.

When you see freemasonry linked to major world events you have to ask yourself the question... who is doing the linking? It's true that through the ages freemasons have played a major role in shaping the world we live in today. But they have not done this in their capacity as freemasons, but as polititians, teachers, leaders, etc.

This site is about denying ignorance. I've told you the truth, all you have to do is decide if you believe me or not. It's as simple as that.



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 08:46 AM
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Are you a Freemason yourself?

If so, dont you remember when you first joined and had to put a hanging rope round you're neck and kneel down before the masonic alter half-naked and pledge allegiance of secrecy and to the gradnmaster?

Worship was a bad word, thats why I "" it but you cant deny the sun is a major part of Freemasonry. Most of your symbols contain a sun and/or rays of the sun and when you know how powerfull the sun really is and how usefull a tool it has been for the Illuminati, you'll understand why Freemasonry is so centered around sun knowledge and other solar stuff.





[edit on 5-4-2005 by Driver]



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by Driver
Are you a Freemason yourself?


Yes


If so, dont you remember when you first joined and had to put a hanging rope round you're neck and kneel down before the masonic alter half-naked and pledge allegiance of secrecy and to the gradnmaster?


I promised not to reveal the modes of recognition (signs, tokens and words). I knelt before a pedestal (we don't call it an alter), I wasn't half-naked by any stretch of the imagination and I certainly made no pledge to the Grand Master, or indeed any other individual.

Where on earth do you get your information?


Worship was a bad word, thats why I "" it but you cant deny the sun is a major part of Freemasonry.


Actually I can. Watch.

The sun is not a major part of freemasonry.


Most of your symbols contain a sun and/or rays of the sun...


Has anyone explained to you that freemasonry uses symbols to illustrate other things? There is a symbol of an irradiated eye, it represents God - is that what you are thinking of? Elsewhere in the ritual the sun is used to symbolise the Master of the lodge, but that's about it.


... and when you know how powerfull the sun really is and how usefull a tool it has been for the Illuminati, you'll understand why Freemasonry is so centered around sun knowledge and other solar stuff.


Well I agree the sun is powerful as it powers the earth and all life on it, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the Illuminati. I don't know very much about the Illuminati I'm afraid, being a freemason gives me no advantage over you or anyone else in that respect.

Freemasonry is not centred around sun knowledge and other solar stuff.

Any other misconceptions I can help you with?



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 09:36 AM
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Tinityman.... I love your style. However, you got a lot of noive telling the truth in such a blatant manner that some folks will never recognize it.



OH, and love the use of the word twaddle. So much of it is. Hope all is well with you.



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by TrinitymanWell I agree the sun is powerful as it powers the earth and all life on it, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the Illuminati. I don't know very much about the Illuminati I'm afraid, being a freemason gives me no advantage over you or anyone else in that respect.

Freemasonry is not centred around sun knowledge and other solar stuff.

Any other misconceptions I can help you with?


More than just power the earth.

It effects human behaviour. Ever heard of sun cycles?

READ THIS



[edit on 5-4-2005 by Driver]



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by Driver
Are you a Freemason yourself?

If so, dont you remember when you first joined and had to put a hanging rope round you're neck and kneel down before the masonic alter half-naked and pledge allegiance of secrecy and to the gradnmaster?


Actually we do not swear allegiance to anything, we swear to keep certain information a secret. And it was not a hanging rope around our necks it's a tow-chord which is very different.



Worship was a bad word, thats why I "" it but you cant deny the sun is a major part of Freemasonry. Most of your symbols contain a sun and/or rays of the sun and when you know how powerfull the sun really is and how usefull a tool it has been for the Illuminati, you'll understand why Freemasonry is so centered around sun knowledge and other solar stuff.


The sun is NOT an immportant art of symbolism in masonry, definitely not as important as other symbols, such as the tools of a stone mason, our two pillars, the checkered pavement, skull and crossbones, the keystone, point in a cirlce, all-seeing eye, etc etc etc. You can do some basic research on this and LEARN A LOT. It'll help you get rid of all your misconceptions.

And you have ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF that masonry is in any way connected to any global "illuminati new world order", so just drop it unless youre willing to show some concrete evidence.



[edit on 5-4-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by Trinityman
Has anyone explained to you that freemasonry uses symbols to illustrate other things? There is a symbol of an irradiated eye, it represents God - is that what you are thinking of? Elsewhere in the ritual the sun is used to symbolise the Master of the lodge, but that's about it.


Maybe he's thinking of the three solar symbols: sun moon and seven stars?



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 12:27 PM
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Ever heard of sun cycles?

yes , and moon cycles,earth cycles, seasonal cycles, Bi- cycles, uni-cycles too.
All of which have or have had impact on mankind.

IMO the "secret Teachings" as they are refered to are no longer secret, nor have they been for many years. They are available in various forms from
various schools. The reason they remain percieved as secret is they involve
a procedure, a practice, a requirement that many if not most " regular people"
are unable or more likely unwilling to truely practice. That being the honest
looking within. some call it self-evaluation. what ever you wish to call it
it is the unbiased looking at ones self and seeing who and what you are
AND being willing to change those aspects of self we dont like.



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by Driver

More than just power the earth.

It effects human behaviour. Ever heard of sun cycles?

READ THIS


No thanks. Your track record leads me to believe I might be wasting valuable personal energy lifting my finger to click the link.



posted on Apr, 5 2005 @ 11:14 PM
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"It's formal and stylised; but so is mass... and the Changing of the Guard."

You compared Freemasonry to a lot of Royal institutions just now, and you don't think its strange that people would find that OUTDATED and most would find there is no reason to not change with the times.

For example, a visitor might ask when is the last time the members of the Lodge discussed changing the ritual.

The nature of the rituals being mostly oral also leaves something to be desired in the library versions, and again, the average person would want to know why those notes are missing.

Finally, Secrecy versus privacy.
Your average person calls a group of 30 people or more meeting together without public announcement a secret. Not discussing anything about this secret falls under Secrecy.

Masons define it as part of their God-given right, just NO ONE but them exercises it apparently, which again leads the average person thinking how did he have his ideas of privacy so far off, that his political leaders can meet in secret with his bank manager and an international drug dealer (I am picturing the Opium Wars) and call it a meeting where no business, or politics was discussed?

Sorry, its just, with some of these guys like Cecil Rhodes, I don't think he talked anything but business and politics, and he is a highly honored Mason.

Lastly, as for the Open Lodge invitation, thanks alot. When can I pick up the key? I am a bit of a night crawler, and wouldn't want to keep one of you up just on account of showing me the Lodge.
In all sincerity,
Akilles



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by akilles
The nature of the rituals being mostly oral also leaves something to be desired in the library versions, and again, the average person would want to know why those notes are missing.


The very beauty of masonry's rituals are the fact that they have been unchanged for hundreds of years. That's what makes them as special as they are. Changing them would cease to make them masonic, in my opinion.



Finally, Secrecy versus privacy.
Your average person calls a group of 30 people or more meeting together without public announcement a secret. Not discussing anything about this secret falls under Secrecy.


Many lodges publically announce when they hold their stated meetings, when they do degree work, etc. etc. My lodge has a big sign on the front door that states this. What's more, how many OTHER organizations meet without announcing it? TONS. organizations do this when they do not want people showing up uninvited.

Or are you saying that you put an ad in the paper last time you had a birthday party, or a meeting at work? They're PRIVATE meetings, they're not advertised for that reason, and masons ARENT the only group on earth that does this.



Sorry, its just, with some of these guys like Cecil Rhodes, I don't think he talked anything but business and politics, and he is a highly honored Mason.


You've obviously never been to a lodge meeting. That's OK, I don't expect you to know, but I do expect you to believe me when I tell you that lodge meetings are for lodge business, and nothing else gets discussed meanwhile.



Lastly, as for the Open Lodge invitation, thanks alot. When can I pick up the key? I am a bit of a night crawler, and wouldn't want to keep one of you up just on account of showing me the Lodge.
In all sincerity,


You're so pretencious it annoys me, Akilles. What would you expect to find while you're there? Secret files implicating masonry in the 9/11 attacks? Confirmation that the number 13 IS an important number in masonry?


[edit on 6-4-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by akilles
"It's formal and stylised; but so is mass... and the Changing of the Guard."

You compared Freemasonry to a lot of Royal institutions just now, and you don't think its strange that people would find that OUTDATED and most would find there is no reason to not change with the times.


What do you mean exactly by 'a lot of royal institutions'? I think most people would be quite tired of the modern fad of constantly changing with the wind to try and be all things to all people


For example, a visitor might ask when is the last time the members of the Lodge discussed changing the ritual.


Why would he ask that? What do you think would be the purpose in changing the ritual?


The nature of the rituals being mostly oral also leaves something to be desired in the library versions, and again, the average person would want to know why those notes are missing.


In the UK the nature of ritual has not been oral for over 100 years. Any Craft ritual in public libraries is likely to be more or less accurate with todays ritual. That would depend on the ritual in question though, as it is estimated that there are over 50 in use in England alone.


Finally, Secrecy versus privacy.
Your average person calls a group of 30 people or more meeting together without public announcement a secret. Not discussing anything about this secret falls under Secrecy.


Are you saying that any meeting of 30 people or more must advertise the meeting publically in order to be not secret? Well uh-ho then, because I've just been to a secret staff meeting this morning, a group of us are secretly meeting to go to the theatre tonight, and I shall be meeting some mates secretly for a secret drink down the pub afterwards.


Masons define it as part of their God-given right, just NO ONE but them exercises it apparently, which again leads the average person thinking how did he have his ideas of privacy so far off, that his political leaders can meet in secret with his bank manager and an international drug dealer (I am picturing the Opium Wars) and call it a meeting where no business, or politics was discussed?


Utter gibberish. Sounds like you would would ban all private meetings just in case someone was up to no good. OK clever clogs - under what conditions would you allow masons to meet?


Sorry, its just, with some of these guys like Cecil Rhodes, I don't think he talked anything but business and politics, and he is a highly honored Mason.


'Cecil Rhodes never talked anything apart from business and politics'. And you're quite sure about that are you?

As for him being highly honoured, I've never heard of him being a mason. What rank did he achieve?


Lastly, as for the Open Lodge invitation, thanks alot. When can I pick up the key? I am a bit of a night crawler, and wouldn't want to keep one of you up just on account of showing me the Lodge.
In all sincerity,
Akilles


We are proud of our lodge and would be happy to show you around. I'd make sure you saw everything so you couldn't accuse me of hiding anything.

Want to go round on you're own? Sure, just let me have the key to your house and I'll have a look around there when you're out. Just in case you're hiding any secrets, you understand.



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by Trinityman

Sorry, its just, with some of these guys like Cecil Rhodes, I don't think he talked anything but business and politics, and he is a highly honored Mason.


'Cecil Rhodes never talked anything apart from business and politics'. And you're quite sure about that are you?

As for him being highly honoured, I've never heard of him being a mason. What rank did he achieve?


Indeed he was, here's some background on that for you:


13. What was the Rhodes-Milner Round Table?
Cecil Rhodes wrote six wills over his lifetime. In the first, written at the age of 23 — sometime after his doctor had warned him that he had but six months to live — he proposed to "form a secret society with but one object, the furtherance of the British Empire and the bringing of the whole uncivilised world under British rule, for the recovery of the United States, for the making the Anglo-Saxon race but one Empire." This was written on June 2, 1877, a month and a half after he had joined a masonic lodge in Oxford. He was not impressed with Freemasonry but it appears to have given him ideas of his own.


Taken from here.

A side note:

I'm not trying to vilify Masonry, just shedding some light on the subject.
For that matter, many conspiracy theorists would do well to read the other portions of that FAQ. I'm not saying that it is pure and unbiased, but it will allow some form of balance when combined with the more conspiratorial views you no doubt read on here and elsewhere.

X



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by Xatnys
Indeed he was, here's some background on that for you:



Taken from here.


Thanks Xantys - an interesting link. I know the site well but hadn't come across the Rhodes-Milner Round Table before.

He sounds a bit loony - no wonder he didn't think much of freemasonry - far too boring for his lofty ambitions.

At least that puts paid to any suggestion that he was in any way 'high ranking'.



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 10:31 AM
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Correct. I'd be surprised to find he even held the 3rd Degree. It's possible I reckon, but it seems that he was not really going in the general direction that the rest of Masonry was focused on at the time.

Just furthers the rationalization that if there are so-called "Illuminati Conspirators" in Masonry, they are most likely very few and far between and not a direct product of Masonry's core values/beliefs.

Of course, I don't believe in the "Illuminati" at least not any current form of them. I think the more serious "NWO" researcher would do well to look elsewhere, there are much more subtle powers at work than Masonry.

I think you all(Masons) get a bad name simply due to ignorance. I know that sounds ultra-critical, but it's not. People simply feel that Masonry is a organization that is fully hidden from public view, but it's not. I could cite many books that have been written by Masons that give a very good look into the historical and esoteric roots of Masonry, but unless the person truly chooses to read the material in full, they would come away with instant preconcieved notions.

There was a time that I believed Masons were the central pool of "NWO" organizations. Coming from that same stance of ignorance, I can say that it is possible to overcome such notions. To realize how strongly Masons throughout time have been on sides of independence and stood against conformity to embrace individuality, you see that this modus operandi is a polar opposite of current "NWO" theory.

But people have to want to read up and research deep enough to see that.

Regards,

X



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by Xatnys
There was a time that I believed Masons were the central pool of "NWO" organizations. Coming from that same stance of ignorance, I can say that it is possible to overcome such notions. To realize how strongly Masons throughout time have been on sides of independence and stood against conformity to embrace individuality, you see that this modus operandi is a polar opposite of current "NWO" theory.

But people have to want to read up and research deep enough to see that.


Or they could just take our word for it. We are, after all, members of said organization. We've given them several books worth of information, REAL, TRUTHFUL information, throughout the life of this forum. Yet they still don't believe it. They could learn a lot if they would just step outside of their homegrown fantasy for a little while.



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 03:19 PM
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This man raped my country


"A wealthy young man, Cecil Rhodes, like John Ruskin believed that only the British elite could and should rule the world to the benefit and happiness of mankind.

Shortly after arriving at Oxford, Rhodes was initiated into Freemasonry at the Apollo University lodge No. 357. On April 17, 1877, he was raised a Master Mason in the same lodge. Rhodes also joined a Scottish Rite Lodge at Oxford called Prince Rose Croix Lodge No. 30.”

After being raised to Master Mason on April 17, 1877, Rhodes drafted a program for world dominion by the British race patriots.

To guarantee the funding from his vast wealth of his world vision for the British empire, Rhodes wrote in 1877 the first of seven wills that he composed over his lifetime. The first will called for the formation of a "secret society" whose primary function would be focused on returning England to her former glory.

When the society Rhodes had envisioned was finally organized after his death, its membership consisted only of English Freemasons. "The Round Table," as it was known, soon became the most powerful appendage of the British Brotherhood."



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