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Do you have any question about *Jihad* ???

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posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 06:25 AM
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Originally posted by Islam
Dear cafeman:
1. USA is occupying Muslims” lands (Afghanistan, Iraq)

2. Uniting with Israel, the biggest enemies of Muslims.

3. Approve the 200 nuclear bombs that Israel had it since 1980s and fighting without hesitating the fertilizing of Uranium in Iran.

4. Not listening to the UN commands (like when occupying Iraq) and want every one to listen to UN (like what happened in Syria!)

5. Bush is putting himself as the leader of the creatures if not the lord of them and addressing our countries with undiplomatic names such as (Arc of evil, etc.)

6. The lies that was done by Bush’s congress concerning the massive weapons in Iraq.

7. What has happened in Abughraib and Guantamo jails!

[edit on 15-4-2005 by Islam]

1.So its ok for Muslims, To come to our lands, ie The west, and some of those muslims plan to kill us, but we cant come to your lands and do the same?

Double standards are awsome.

Hell if ya wanna be mad at anyone you should be mad at Osama, had he not pulled his sht, we would have never been in that region, thus bush wouldnt have so easily been able to convince the u.s to invade iraq.

2.We can unite with whoever we want. muslim countries do the same.

3.So?

4.We dont go to the U.N for permission, nor do we take the U.N's commands, we seek aproval, If they dont approve then well thats fine, we will do it at our own expense, like we did.

5.Do muslims (not all) not say the same about the U.S?

6.Lies? what lies? Did he get bad INTEL? yes, did he lie?, you nor anyone else knows that, but the bush admin.

7.Same stuff happens in our own prisons, why arent you standing up defending those poor american prisoners who get brutilised over here?


[edit on 16-4-2005 by C0le]




posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by C0le
7.Same stuff happens in our own prisons, why arent you standing up defending those poor american prisoners who get brutilised over here?


You are at a 6 yearolds birthday party with your child. The parents are sitting down and having conversation. While the kids play one of the children takes a toy away from another child, so his father walks over and smacks him. What do you do? Shake your head.

Next, your child is the one who takes a toy away from another kid. So the same father walks over and smacks your child. What do you do?

What happens in your prisons is your problem.

[edit on 16-4-2005 by cargo]



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by cargo

Originally posted by C0le
7.Same stuff happens in our own prisons, why arent you standing up defending those poor american prisoners who get brutilised over here?


You are at a 6 yearolds birthday party with your child. The parents are sitting down and having conversation. While the kids play one of the children takes a toy away from another child, so his father walks over and smacks him. What do you do? Shake your head.

Next, your child is the one who takes a toy away from another kid. So the same father walks over and smacks your child. What do you do?

What happens in your prisons is your problem.

[edit on 16-4-2005 by cargo]

'
Ok, only fair, Non iraqi's cant complain about abu graib, non palestinians

cant complain about isreal




[edit on 16-4-2005 by C0le]



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by cargo


You are at a 6 yearolds birthday party with your child. The parents are sitting down and having conversation. While the kids play one of the children takes a toy away from another child, so his father walks over and smacks him. What do you do? Shake your head.

Next, your child is the one who takes a toy away from another kid. So the same father walks over and smacks your child. What do you do?

What happens in your prisons is your problem.

[edit on 16-4-2005 by cargo]



LOLOLOLOLOL: Great stuff Cargo! You must be from the "old school"

I am military Brat...therefore in case number one which you listed...yes the kids get a whack......Then in case number (2) where it is my kid....they get whached also by the other father.....thats how it works when kids do something wrong! At least back in the day! But alas, things are a bit different now.

Oh and btw in case (2) I walk over to the father who inflicted physical correction on my child and say....lets have a beer! Unless of course he seriously injured the child!



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 11:24 PM
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I wish there were a way to separate the leader from the people as far as hatred goes, but trying to think of America as seperate from Bush would be like trying to think of Nazi Germany as seperate from Hitler. All I can say is that, in 2008 we will elect a new leader, and, God willing, one that isn't such an incredible arse in the eyes of the rest of the world.


All of us wish that. But it happen always that people judge the WHOLE community because of leaders.
And I know that more than half of Americans are against Bush. But the same thing happen to Muslims. Most of them are against BinLaden, but people think that they and their religion is BinLaden!



However, while I will not deny there are "children" out there who are just as capable of evil as adults, I don't know that I could hold a child accountable for the crimes of the parent. If a man killed my child, I would visit justice on him, not his child. By the same token, if a child killed my fiance, I would visit the justice on the child, and not the father.


First, If you look through the attacks of Palestinians against Israel, you will see most of it addressing the cities that were belong to Palestinians.

Second, I believe that ALL Israelis who are staying on our land are like soldiers. They put themselves under risk. Their example is like the example of soldiers who are bringing their babies to the battle. Islam prohibit killing children, women, old, and innocents in any way. But those Israelis who are living in OUR lands are NOT innocents.
They are like the descendants of the group that attacked your home and killed, raped, arrested, etc.

Would you call them innocents too???

And what about if they are still killing your relatives even after they occupied your home!!

Brother, you have to feel the pressure from all sides that Palestinians are experienced which lead them to do suicide bombing.

And by the way, Palestinians did no more than around 30 suicide bombings that killed couple of hundred of Jews. BUT look how many massacres Israeilis done to them:

www.palestinehistory.com...

And look how many attacks they did against their villages and cities, how many thousand of people they kille, and how many tens of thousands they arrested!

www.palestinehistory.com...

ALL what Palestinians are doing to Israel cannot equal to 1/1000 of what they’ve done to them!

And the irony is when somebody comes and says Palestinians are the terrorists and those Jews are the white dove!!



While I can understand the immediate association, is it fair to kill them too? How about the innocent tourist, or journalist who wants nothing more than to observe, and tell the world back home what goes on?

The problem with bombs is that they are indiscriminate. They don't explode and then only kill the soldiers and settlers that stole Palestinian land, they explode and kill whomever takes enough damage from the blast. It is an unjust way to wage war, a cowards way to fight a war, and does absolutely nothing to garner the Palestinians sympathy.


Killing Jews who are coming as pilgrimage is PROHIBITTED. And killing the journalist or any one who is not involving in occupying our lands is PROHIBITTED. I am with you in that point.



Now, to be fair, I invite you to read up on Jewish history. Throughout the entire world, they have had their people slaughtered, their possessions confiscated, their lands seized, their homes burned, and what did they do? If they fought, the results were so crushing it made the thought of fighting inconceivable... so they moved to friendlier lands that, for a time, tolerated them, until a new leader came to power, and started the whole process over again.


All humanity is sorry deeply to what happened to Jews especially under the cursed leader Hitler. BUT is that an excecuse for those Jews to do to Palestinians what they did?

The story of Jews in Palestine didn’t happen as you said!

This what the Wekipedia Encyclopedia (which is American or English) states about Palestine at that time

en.wikipedia.org...

Read the Declaration of Balfour

en.wikipedia.org...

And read about the refugees of Palestinians because of srael

en.wikipedia.org...

Do Palestine have to pay what the devil Hitler did to the Jews! Is that a logic execuse!




I don't mean to sound as if I do not sympathize with Palestine's situation, for they are going through much the same as my ancestors did. However, I think their method of retaliation is shameful and barbaric. They do have another choice. They can leave the land, with their families, in another part of Palestine, and then fight with words, using the media, the U.N., lobbyists, whatever legal ways are possible, and fight for reparations.


I know that what happened to Native American is worse than what happen to Palestinians. But if Palestinians did as the Indians did when some of them believed the whites, then Palestinians would end like Indians.

And again, how can you call what Palestinian did is barbaric!

Again I am asking you to calculate the number of those who killed from both sides! THE number of Palestinians is about 100,000 while the number of Israelis is no more than 3,000!

And then you are saying that Palestinians are the barbaric!

Regarding what you say about the U.N and the other “legal” ways, BROTHER, are you still believing UN!!!!

Whenever there is something against Israel, USA use the veto!

Read how many times did the slave of USA (((UN))) condemn Israel and then USA used the irony tool of “veto”

www.action-for-un-renewal.org.uk...

This is from a Jew site.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

Do you want Palestinians to believe this nasty UN!

Brother, if there is a way to deal with that Israel other than the resistance, we would do it. But unfortunately, all the world is either don’t care or will be shut up because of USA veto, or is follower to the god of power ((USA)))!!





This brought a smile of relief to my face. There's still hope for peace between us, then, unless the Bush Dynasty finds a way to outlaw non-Christian religions... in which case, I'll be moving the hell out of America.


We are friends. But as usually happen, people pay the stupid decisions of their leaders.




This I totally understand. And while I root for our troops, and hope and pray they will return home safely, I loathe the man who sent them to Iraq. War is fought by soldiers on both sides, it is their job, and thusly, when they die, it is expected, but still mourned.


We all mourn those youth who are dying for no reasons except to fill the stomach of the filthy pig “Bush” may Allah curse him and curse who accept what he is doing.



That saddens me, because I have no animosity at all towards Muslims. Palestinians, yes, for reasons I've already stated, but I rather like Muslims.


But that is unfortunately the reality.

If many Americans right now are hating oe at least suspecting Arabs and Muslims because of what the idiot Osama done to them, then why would you be surprised if Arabs and Muslims will hate or suspect Americans after all what the American government is doing!!!

And a quick notice, WHY Muslims don’t hate Germany, Sweden, Norway, Latvia, Finland, etc??



(blink)... Israel has 200 nuclear bombs? Good Lord!


What do you mean ? I don’t understand


If you don’t believe that, then hear what the recent news in BBC say.

news.bbc.co.uk...

www.palestinemonitor.org...



Now, actually, those were the results of two companies: Anteon International, and CACI, Inc. They, like DynCorp, are what epitomizes the very idea of an Evil Multinational Corporation. And as far as I'm concerned, they can both rot in all the hells humanity has ever dreamt of. They disgust Americans (the ones that know about them, at least) as well as those abroad, and if we had any power to stop them, we would.


I know that noble Americans (who are more than the half) are disgust of what those nasty troop done in iraq. And we saw the people shouting and saying ((FIRE RAMSFELD))
But as I told you, ordinary and non Educated people will think that all Americans are like that!



For which we are very grateful, and our own religious and political leaders (Bush aside) urge us not to do anything stupid and start lynch mobs.


Thank you for all wise priests who are urge you not to do anything stupid. And that will show you that what join Muslims and Christians is much more than what separate them.



Bush is not America. He's barely over 50% of America, and there's a chance even that was rigged. His approval rating is the lowest in history, and less than half a year into his re-election, people who were die-hards for him are now scratching their heads and wondering what the hell they were thinking.

America is not Bush. In much the same way that Israel is not Ariel Sharon, and he is not Israel. In fact, the two have about the same backing right now, which is to say, the nutjobs and the stubborn hard-core. Everyone else is disgusted with them both.


Bush is not America. YES I AGREE 100%.
Ariel Sharon is not Israel. I DON’T AGREE 100%. Because all of those Israelis are supporting what Israelis are doing to our people and still staying on our lands as if it is their land from the dawn of history!



Now as for us supporting Israel, well... that's really not going to change as long as Palestine keeps committing terrorist acts. This is simple logic.


Well, as for us opposing Israel, that's really not going to change as long as Israelis keeps committing terrorist acts. This is simple LOGIC.

Killing 100,000, kicking 900,000, arresting hundred of thousands, and veto game is not terrorism but killing 3,000 stealers is a terrorism. WHAT A JOKE!




The closest I ever come to fitting your reasons is that I have Jewish friends and relatives, most of which have, at one point, gone on a religious pilgramige to Israel, but on the flip side, I have Muslim friends whom have been to Mecca. I don't have any Muslim relatives that I know of, but that's simply a roll of the dice.

I do not hate Muslims for siding with Palestine.
Yet I am hated because my country sides with Israel.

I am hated, along with millions of my countrymen, because of these things I have no control over.

Do you see the double-standards?



Again I am telling you.

Many Americans do hate us even though we are GAAINST that idiot Osama. I have Christian friends because Syria has (10% of Christians) and I would have Jew friends iif they are against what Israel done to us.

The peace between Muslims and Americans is on, and thus you see many mosques spread all around USA.

But as USA is supporting what Israel is doing to Palestinians, there will still be sensitive relationships from both sides even though many Americans are not involving in that.

I don’t hate you even if you are to the side of Israel because simply I think that many Americans are misinformed about the reality of that ugly conflict.

In a conclusion,

USA and Muslim countries will still in peace even if USA is supporting Israel (because it is not the only one). But when USA is canceling many UN reports by the VETO, attacking Iraq and maybe other lands, supporting the terrorist Sharon (may Allah curse him), THEN it is like declaring a clear war against all Muslims. And obviously the relations between two sides will be sensitive.

And again, I want you to see why Muslims don’t hate Germany, Sweden, Norway, Spain, even though they are with Israel???
The answer is they are only with Israel side but NOT supporting Israel crimes as Bush do.

And since many Americans are against Israel crimes and many Muslims are against Osama’s crimes, THEN WE ARE BROTHERS AND FRIENDS despite what our governments would do.











1.So its ok for Muslims, To come to our lands, ie The west, and some of those muslims plan to kill us, but we cant come to your lands and do the same?

Double standards are awsome.

Hell if ya wanna be mad at anyone you should be mad at Osama, had he not pulled his sht, we would have never been in that region, thus bush wouldnt have so easily been able to convince the u.s to invade iraq.


Have I said that Muslims should attack the west ??? and have I said that Osama is right ??? And have I said that Americans are criminals??

Please read what I said before you start cursing.



4.We dont go to the U.N for permission, nor do we take the U.N's commands, we seek aproval, If they dont approve then well thats fine, we will do it at our own expense, like we did.



You are simply wrong


Read how many times did the slave of USA (((UN))) condemn Israel and then USA used the irony tool of “veto”

www.action-for-un-renewal.org.uk...

This is from a Jew site.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...



6.Lies? what lies? Did he get bad INTEL? yes, did he lie?, you nor anyone else knows that, but the bush admin.


Where are the mass destruction weapons in Iraq that makes Bush to attack us ???????



Ok, only fair, Non iraqi's cant complain about abu graib, non palestinians

cant complain about isreal


Have you made a survey that cover all the 27,000,000 Iraqis and the 2,000,000 Palestinians??



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 11:47 PM
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Hey Islam...

I find your points of view interesting. I can't say you're wrong about the situation with Israel and the Palestinians. You definitley have a valid point of view. It's not without bias, but nobodies is.


I'm not exactly an Israel supporter by any means, but at the same time - Arabs need to take a fair share of blame in the situation. I mean, the plight of the Palestinians has a lot to do with their discrimination back in Jordan, and to this day, many are still scattered around because of mistreatment from other Arabs - It's not just because of Israel. That's why I fully support a free Palestinian state (free from Israel AND the direct control of other Arab nations).

Seriously, how does Jordan, for instance, get off so easy in the peace process? And why isn't there a "jihad" against other muslims that mistreat their own (such as the oppression by Saddam Hussein against Kurds and Shi'ites, or Palestinians in Jordan)? It just seems to me to be slightly hypocritical to hold Israel to high standard when it comes to oppressing a group of people, but then letting others off. I think Israel is responsible for a lot of the trouble there, but so are a lot of other countries in the region - yet no jihad against them.

I am by the way, 100% against the Iraqi war and agree with your points there.



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by Islam
Where are the mass destruction weapons in Iraq that makes Bush to attack us ???????



If a friend hears, a group of people planning to come and rob Your home, And your friend comes to you and tells you about what he herd this group of people planning to do, And this group of people never follow through with there plans, did Your friend lie?

Saying that bush/admin, lied is rather childish as you nor anyone else has ANY proof what so ever that bush KNEW iraq had no wmb, ALL proof points to bad intel, from not only U.S agencies but many Countries.

Where do you think World leaders get there information, do you think they go into these hotspots and do there own surveilence?
NO they rely on others to do that for them, the people who do this surveilence? CAN be wrong, But you cannot call a person a liar because all the information he has points to wmd.

[edit on 16-4-2005 by C0le]



posted on Apr, 17 2005 @ 12:06 AM
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Cole in the situation that you propose there is no lie but that is a gross oversimplification of what the Bush administration did.

Bush and his cabinet went before the intelligence commitees and blatantly distorted the truth, saying that their reports were a sure thing.

The actual intelligence reports contain many caveats about the intel. They state that their info was not 100% and that iraq was possibly not a threat at all.

So if you want to you can rationalize and say it wasn't lying, just very artful and shameless distortion.



posted on Apr, 17 2005 @ 12:36 AM
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It seem's to have a killing affect on Human Beings - not yet worthy of meeting their maker..

Dallas



posted on Apr, 17 2005 @ 02:43 PM
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I like this quote:

"Palestine is in the Middle East. Thus, it should be full of Arab NOT Bulgarian, Russian, Yiddish, Hungarian, and Romanian."

I think that the UK (indeed most of the EU) and should be full of Europeans, but my views are considered racist, yet no one has commented on that quote AFAIK.



posted on Apr, 17 2005 @ 02:43 PM
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I find your points of view interesting. I can't say you're wrong about the situation with Israel and the Palestinians. You definitley have a valid point of view. It's not without bias, but nobodies is.


Thank you for your justice view. May Allah bless you.



I'm not exactly an Israel supporter by any means, but at the same time - Arabs need to take a fair share of blame in the situation. I mean, the plight of the Palestinians has a lot to do with their discrimination back in Jordan, and to this day, many are still scattered around because of mistreatment from other Arabs - It's not just because of Israel. That's why I fully support a free Palestinian state (free from Israel AND the direct control of other Arab nations).


You are right. Palestinians are having hard time especially in Jordan. But we should blame the king of Jordan NOT the Jordanians themselves.

Also, since the king of Jordan is NOT killing Palestinians, then there is NO excecuse for them to declare Jihad against him.

Again, Jihad is declared for one of these 3 reasons:

1. Against the soldiers who are occupying our land or killing us.
2. Against those who are forcing us to leave our religion.
3. Against a country that prevent Muslims from practicing their religions.

And what is happening in Jordan cannot be compared to what is happening in Palestine. Hat happening is that the government is not paying that attention to those Palestinians because they are refugees and it is discriminating them. And that happen in many other countries with refugees, and thus if we will declare a war against these countries, then we will have diffidently a WWIII.




Seriously, how does Jordan, for instance, get off so easy in the peace process? And why isn't there a "jihad" against other muslims that mistreat their own (such as the oppression by Saddam Hussein against Kurds and Shi'ites, or Palestinians in Jordan)?


I answered that question before and I said that Muslims did declare Jihad against oppressor Muslims and against the devil Saddam.

For example, Imam Husain son of Ali (Prophet Muhammad’s grandson) declared Jihad against the fifth caliph Yazid because he was an oppressor .

For Iraq at Saddam’s time, 4 wars (Jihad) have been declared from Muslims against Saddam:

1. The war between Iran and Iraq.
2. The Jihad of Kurds against Saddam that end in the savage massacre of Halabja (1988) when thousands of innocent Kurds lost their lifes.
3. The war between Kuwait and Saddam.
4. The Jihad of Shiia Muslims (7% of Muslims) at 1991against Saddam because he was not allowing them to practice their rituals and because he assassinated many of their scholars and it end with the mass graves that still in Iraq till now.

Thus, Muslims did declared Jihad against oppressor Muslims. But Jordan is not doing like Saddam or Sharon.



I am by the way, 100% against the Iraqi war and agree with your points there.


I know that many Americans are against the poison snake Bush.
May Allah bless America and Bless noble Americans like you.

And may Allah curse Bush and his followers.



If a friend hears, a group of people planning to come and rob Your home, And your friend comes to you and tells you about what he herd this group of people planning to do, And this group of people never follow through with there plans, did Your friend lie?


Dear Cool!

The UN investigators came to Iraq before the war and they declared that Iraq doesn’t have the “mass destruction weapons.”

Most of the world also stands against that war but USA used as usual the funny game of “veto.”

After all of that, Bush attacked Iraq and was responsible for killing thousand of innocents who have nothing to do with USA. Their only sin is that they were born in Iraq..

Also, who is more dangerous to USA? Iraq that has NO mass destruction weapons or Korea that is declaring clearly to the whole world that they are having nuclear activities???

It is clear brother and any idiot can understand it. Iraq has OIL that will fill the stomach of the filthy pig Bush.




GEEEEHAUD..

It seem's to have a killing affect on Human Beings - not yet worthy of meeting their maker..

Dallas


Sorry but I don’t understand.



posted on Apr, 17 2005 @ 03:43 PM
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What I would like to know is; why haven't the moderate muslims (sp?)declared a Jihad against Osma and Al Zarkowi (sp on both?)




[edit on 4/17/2005 by shots]



posted on Apr, 17 2005 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by Islam
It is clear brother and any idiot can understand it. Iraq has OIL that will fill the stomach of the filthy pig Bush.


Your right, We are there for the Oil, God instructed bush to do this for the good of the American people, our gas prices have now lowered because of this new supply of oil we are stealing from iraq, The evil monster saddam hussein has been defeated, soon Bush will do another great thing for the americans, and steal more oil from other countries.





Obviously some of what i just typed was exagerated, but from what i can tell, alot of people actualy believe that stuff, tis sad.



[edit on 17-4-2005 by C0le]



posted on Apr, 17 2005 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by Islam
It is clear brother and any idiot can understand it. Iraq has OIL that will fill the stomach of the filthy pig Bush.



Oh my and here I thought this thread was for you to explain Islam/jihad to all of us yet as usual it is nothing more then a thread to bash Bush.





[edit on 4/17/2005 by shots]



posted on Apr, 17 2005 @ 05:57 PM
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What I would like to know is; why haven't the moderate muslims (sp?)declared a Jihad against Osma and Al Zarkowi (sp on both?)


The police men in Iraq are arresting and killing the followers of Osama and Zarkawi.

All the Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Syria, Egypt, Algeria, Turkey, etc. ARE capturing the followers of Al-Qaeda.

So how come you are saying that Muslims are not declaring Jihad against those criminals who misshape the beuatiful face of Islam?





Your right, We are there for the Oil, God instructed bush to do this for the good of the American people, our gas prices have now lowered because of this new supply of oil we are stealing from iraq, The evil monster saddam hussein has been defeated, soon Bush will do another great thing for the americans, and steal more oil from other countries.

Obviously some of what i just typed was exagerated, but from what i can tell, alot of people actualy believe that stuff, tis sad.


Because it is right.

But not God is the one who instructed Bush to do this. It is his greediness.




posted on Apr, 17 2005 @ 06:47 PM
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Hey there Islam...

Just a question...

How does the Islamic culture feel about the telling of false hoods ( lieing ), to promote a muslim persons' version of propaganda ??



posted on Apr, 17 2005 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by Islam



What I would like to know is; why haven't the moderate muslims (sp?)declared a Jihad against Osma and Al Zarkowi (sp on both?)


The police men in Iraq are arresting and killing the followers of Osama and Zarkawi.

All the Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Syria, Egypt, Algeria, Turkey, etc. ARE capturing the followers of Al-Qaeda.

So how come you are saying that Muslims are not declaring Jihad against those criminals who misshape the beuatiful face of Islam?



I know they are arresting them!

That was not the question.

Now why haven't the CLERICS called for a jihad against them?



posted on Apr, 18 2005 @ 08:54 AM
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Islam,

I have a new question regarding the Falashas (the Ethiopean Jews, possibly the lost tribe of Solomon).

In case you aren't familiar with Operation Moses, the long and short of it was that the Falashas, a group of African Jews, separated for thousands of years from the rest, in the highlands of Ethiopia, were facing extermination at the hands of Christians and Muslims, and were finally, in the late 80's, early 90's, rescued and flown to Israel.

While Operation Moses was in progress, it was attacked by various Muslim entities, including mostly Palestinians.

What I'm curious about is whether the attacks were justified according to the teachings of Muhammad. While they were being flown into a nation Palestine was, admittedly, at war with, it was a humanitarian mission to save a people from Genocide. So was it right, per the Sunnah and Qu'ran, to attack the refuges?

I would think that this would merit an exception to the jihad.


My second question is this:

Why can't Palestinians and Israelies live among one another in peace? Why does a neighborhood have to strictly be Palestinian, and another have to be Israeli? It would seem to make more sense to set up something of a "neutral zone" where the two can live next door to each other without shooting or bombing.


As for your response on 3,000 vs. 90,000 deaths being called terrorism...

I think it deals in how the public perceives the issue. It's one thing to have a group of uniformed soldiers, with guns, go in and attack a place, and kill a lot of people in the process. There are rules of engagement, soldiers can be held accountable, and there are specific objectives. Now, those three things may not be enforced, but the mere fact that those rules exist in the first place, does a lot, in the eyes of the public, to accept their actions.

On the other hand, a ragtag group, that encourages swallowing a bomb and running into a crowded restaurant garners no public sympathy. They are perceived as both a coward and a terrorist, because they have killed innocents. Even if they are not viewed as innocents by the bombers, you must admit that children have no choice in the matter and unintentional targets, like pilgrims and journalists are killed as a result as well. The fact that apparently it is seen as glorious for a child to grow up to be a living bomb lowers public opinion even more.

This is one of the biggest reasons the U.S. will continue to veto, or side with Israel. And sadly, the future I see is this: If Palestine continues using what is publicly considered to be terrorist tactics (justification notwithstanding), I can see the U.S. eventually sending armed forces over there to flatten Palestine... and that would be one holy hell of a mistake for everyone involved.

I would like to continue discussing this, as I'd like to find at least a theoretical solution to resolve the conflict in Israel and Palestine.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 06:20 PM
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Hey there Islam...

Just a question...

How does the Islamic culture feel about the telling of false hoods ( lieing ), to promote a muslim persons' version of propaganda ??


NO!
But lying is allowed in only 2 situations:

1. During the war because the result of a war or a battle depends mainly on how smart and foxy the leader is.

2. To lie (in limit) to solve a conflict between two guys. For example, if you know that Mike and John are in conflict, you can go to John and tell him that Mike likes you and he talks good about you and the same thing for Mike.






know they are arresting them!

That was not the question.

Now why haven't the CLERICS called for a jihad against them?


I don’t know what CLERIC means and the dictionary didn’t give me a mean for that but I think it means the religious leader.

If so, you have to know that most if not all Muslim leaders are warning Muslims from those criminals and some courage Muslims to arrest them if they find them.

In short, WE are doing the best we can to get rid of those radical BinLadians who misshape the pretty face of ISLAM.




What I'm curious about is whether the attacks were justified according to the teachings of Muhammad. While they were being flown into a nation Palestine was, admittedly, at war with, it was a humanitarian mission to save a people from Genocide. So was it right, per the Sunnah and Qu'ran, to attack the refuges?

I would think that this would merit an exception to the jihad.


Attacking refuges is completely prohibited regardless the religion of those refugees.

The quotes from the Quran I gave it to you before proof what I am saying.

And by the way, till now there are Jews who live in Yemen and in Damascus, Syria, my country, there is a whole street that called (Shari Alyahood) which means (The Jews Street) because there were many Jews who used to live there but they went to Palestine in the late 1880s.

Also, Syria has about 10% of Christians, Jordan has 5% of them, and Lebanon has the highest, about 47% of them.

I am saying that to know that Islamic empire that dominant Syria and Yemen and between since the death of Muhammad (peace be upon him) still have Jews and Christians. And in Syria, there are Christian churches since the Roman Empire that no one touch it. That is because it is completely prohibited to force any one to leave his religion and rophet Muhammad said: “Harming a (innocent) nonMuslim is like harming me and the one who do so will be down”



My second question is this:

Why can't Palestinians and Israelies live among one another in peace? Why does a neighborhood have to strictly be Palestinian, and another have to be Israeli? It would seem to make more sense to set up something of a "neutral zone" where the two can live next door to each other without shooting or bombing.


All of us hope that would happen. But it can NOT happen if our lands are still stolen and there are about 1.5 Million of refugees.



As for your response on 3,000 vs. 90,000 deaths being called terrorism...

I think it deals in how the public perceives the issue. It's one thing to have a group of uniformed soldiers, with guns, go in and attack a place, and kill a lot of people in the process. There are rules of engagement, soldiers can be held accountable, and there are specific objectives. Now, those three things may not be enforced, but the mere fact that those rules exist in the first place, does a lot, in the eyes of the public, to accept their actions.

On the other hand, a ragtag group, that encourages swallowing a bomb and running into a crowded restaurant garners no public sympathy. They are perceived as both a coward and a terrorist, because they have killed innocents. Even if they are not viewed as innocents by the bombers, you must admit that children have no choice in the matter and unintentional targets, like pilgrims and journalists are killed as a result as well. The fact that apparently it is seen as glorious for a child to grow up to be a living bomb lowers public opinion even more.


OK!

First, I am with you about how public perceives the issue of suicide bombing ONLY.

BUT, we have to know why did the Palestinians chose this abnormal way to resist!
The answer is that because the USA’s veto and the pressure of Israelis was attacking Palestinians even before they started to resist by subsiding in the late 1990s.

Second, Palestinians also have “uniformed troops” such as Hamas and Aljihadul Islami and many other troops.

Third, we might escecuse ordinary people, but politicians and some of the USA leaders KNOW the reality and thus Ordinary Americans including the nobles are paying because of the foolishness of some of their leaders such as that pig, Bush.

Fourth, if suicide bombing is not justified, then do the massacres of Israel justified? And do the Palestinians refugees problem justified? And do the killing of innocents every day justified? And do arresting people in dozens justified? And do having 200 nuclear bombs that are able to destroy the world justified? And do occupying other Arabic territories such as Golan highs in Syria and Shab’a farms in Lebanon justified?

In which logic or thought can all of these savage things justified and killing no more than 200 by suiciding is not justified!!!!

Did you notice the double standards that we are facing from the “west”

Imagen that your people (Americans) are treated like that from Chiese governments for example, wouldn’t you suspect and dislike many Chinese?]

Donot say that because of suiciding we are facing this situation, because as I told you, we’ve been in this situation since 1948.



If Palestine continues using what is publicly considered to be terrorist tactics (justification notwithstanding), I can see the U.S. eventually sending armed forces over there to flatten Palestine... and that would be one holy hell of a mistake for everyone involved.


Well, Palestinians right now canceled the Intifada to see what Israelis are going to do. But Israel break that many times since then and the last one was last week when 3 young boys who were playing soccer killed.

And if USA send arm forces to Palestine, then the blood will reach the knees. But I don’t think any American president would do that except that idiot Bush.



I would like to continue discussing this, as I'd like to find at least a theoretical solution to resolve the conflict in Israel and Palestine.


We can’t find a theoretical solution to resolve the conflict in Israel and Palestine unless we can distinguish between:

The Prey and The Predator.
The Attacked and The Attacker.
The Oppresser and The Oppressed.

We can’t find a theoretical solution to resolve the conflict in Israel and Palestine untill we can decide whisch one is THE TERRORIST
Those who killed 3,000 or those who killed more than 100,000
Those who kicked hundreds or those who kicked about 900,000
Those who have few old weapons since the WWI or those who have 200 nuclear bombs.

And may Allah bless noble America and bless noble Americans like you who are not bowing to the nasty majesty o the head of terror BUSH and his like.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 06:35 PM
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I have a question....
What is the oposite to Jihad?
I mean if Jihad is the "holy war" , I hope I've got this right...please correct if I didnt, surely there must be a "holy peace" or something along those lines.....does something along those lines exist?



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