Way to end the Arabs - Jewish conflict

i know how to stop the fight over Isreal. make it a US military base. make it US soil. make it the 51st state. not that i agree with everything Isreal has been able to get away with in the past, but this would put some regulation on it as well as making certain other individuals think twice about attacking it. Isreal would no longer be able to level neighborhoods at a whim and Palestinians could be better occupied by building a government and finally getting their offical Stateship honored, and hey, maybe they can be our 52nd state, then they'd really have to stop fighting or face US cessession and treason charges.

Originally posted by fledgling666
. . .Isreal would no longer be able to level neighborhoods at a whim

Errrrr... what neighborhood would that be?

.....maybe they can be our 52nd state, then they'd really have to stop fighting or face US cessession and treason charges.

You wouldn't wanna do dat. The Palestinians would then want the whole US of A and would say that their 'state' is not enough.

Roman arches prove that ancient Israel existed at one time? There are arches through out the region, there are roman buildings through out the region. A menorah? Are you sure that is not just a candle holder?

Icomewithasword you are officially pronounced ignorant until proven otherwise.

I can see that you didn't pick up any sort of history book. You keep insisting that the ancient Hebrews are a fairy tale found only in the bible.

I can't argue with your sour intellect. Goodluck Icomewithasword.


Here is one last attempt of mine to help you:



Ancient Israel

More Ancient Israel

[edit on 4/6/2005 by verfed]

Verfed,

I am going to ask a question and I hope you do not take it as being facetious or a dig. I am asking it in a serious attempt to gain some understanding. So here goes;

Do you think that the Jewish people have a stronger claim to the lands covered by Israel today than any other claim? If so, why?

Cheers

BHR

First of all I would like to thank you for just asking a question honestly and direct. Now claim? Israel not only claims the land but they also occupy it literally with millions of people. They protect the land with thousands of soldiers. The Jews don't need to claim land that they are already in full control of.

That said I will show and tell you why the Jews have a greater claim to Eretz Israel even if the claim is unnecessary.

here is what the British initially said would be the Jewish National Home in 1920 decades before the Holocaust. You ask what right do the British have? Well the British defeated the Turks after years of war. There was no Arab land conquered by the British. The land was Turkish and the British could decide what to do with it. Along with the French the British graciously gave it all away. Most to the Arabs of course.

Then in 1922 the British decided the Jewish National Home would be much smaller. The British created the Independent state of Transjordan.

The Jews never asked for that much land from the British so the transition went smoothly, well besides the Arab wars.

Worn out from War with Germany the British handed over the power to decide what would become of Palestine to the United Nations. The United Nations produced a plan that was accepted by the Jews but not by the Arabs because the Arabs wanted no Jewish State at all.
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On May 15 1948 the Jews in Israel declared their Independence. What gave them that right? No one gave it to them other then themselves. Power brings legitemacy and right! Six Arab nations threw their armies against the newborn nation. Contrary to popular belief this was was the most equal of the Arab Israeli war in numbers. But the British supported the Arabs and hindered the Israeli's.

At the time of the cease fire Israel had captured much more land then the UN said they could have.

The Arabs left before the war and some after and were forced into camps by the surrounding Arab nations.

The Jews left their homes in Arab countries and were instantly accepted into Israel as productive citizens.

Not that during the 19 year occupation of Gaza by Egypt and "the west bank" by Jordan there was no call for freedom from the oppression of the occupiers. Only after Israeli conquered those areas in 1967 did the Palestinian Liberation Organization bring upon the world the terrors of jet hijackings, olympic athlete murders, suicide bombers, and school children massacres. Yes the recent massacre in Beslan, Russia was not the first.

Maalot School Massacre 1974

There is much more but I'll end here for now with my answer. Yes the Jews have much more right to the Lands West of the Jordan. As much right as Arabs have to lands East of the Jordan. People are looking for a two state solution? That solution was found in 83 years ago with the partition of Eretz Israel by the ruling British. Jews were not allowed to live in Transjordan so fair is fair no Arab citizens of Israel. Sorry but we're all for equality among the nations.

King Abdullah II of Jordan is desperately trying to find some disparities betwen the people of Jordan and the palestinians living in refugee camps in his country in order to justify their imprisonment. But there are none and he knows it and you know it. The Arabs of Israel and Gaza and the west bank are the exact same of Jordan except the Jordanian youth aren't raised in a culture of hate and martyrdom.


Jews live on East side and Arabs live on the West side. Problem solved. Israel's claim is 100% genuine as is Jordan's claim to the West.

Note that the Palestinian Authority at any moment may declare their independence from Israel much like the Jews did in 1947 from the will of the UN. What would give them that right? None but themselves. Let them take it.

I better stop I won't even go into how life under Israeli rule in the Gaza and west bank between 1967 and 1988 parallels with life under Egyptian and Jordanian rule.




[edit on 4/7/2005 by verfed]

*resized large image*

[edit on 7-4-2005 by dbates]

Originally posted by BillHicksRules
Verfed,

I am going to ask a question and I hope you do not take it as being facetious or a dig. I am asking it in a serious attempt to gain some understanding. So here goes;

Do you think that the Jewish people have a stronger claim to the lands covered by Israel today than any other claim? If so, why?

Cheers

BHR

Jewish has the strongest claim to the lands of Israel then any other nation may put a claim to its lands in the world.

Lands of any other nations may be disputed by inhabitants who lived there at the time the dominant nation has arrived.

Jewish have no such opponents. There are no nations left from the time of 2000 years Jewish state, all the nations are gone in the history.

I love to hear the claims to put the Israel under the US or UN jurisdiction. I love to remember the Egyptians as I here these claims. Today, there are no Egyptians, today the Egypt is populated by Arabs and you so love them, you so welcome them. Jewish outlived many, they will outlive you too.

Luckly for you, Jewish know where their homeland is. So in the 2000 years of diaspora they never conquered no lands of anyone else.



[edit on 7-4-2005 by Colonel Bill]

No man or woman has claim to a single square foot of this earth. To think otherwise is ignorance and arrogance to the nth power. We humans dont own the land and we ought to be a little more thankfull that or planet hasnt gone berzerker on us yet. Humanity is ego driven and arrogant enough to believe that
he is the be all end all. This self driven notion will destroy us.


[edit on 4/7/05 by Kidfinger]

Um Kidfinger I think you missed the point of my post and in fact of this entire topic. You sound like you belong in the Hippies R, Us forum.

no offense

Originally posted by Colonel Bill
No one has no right to the lands of Israel exept Jewish. No other states exept the state of Israel may be present on these lands.

You have your lands, Jewish have Israel.

That does not make sense....therefore I disagree.

I guess I have to be nice an' flowery.... all purty.... sugar coated... FAKE.

[edit on 7-4-2005 by Infamous Zordak9]

Let's try to keep this away from personal bickering please.

So far the topic has been going pretty well with people providing opinions, facts, theories and even diagrams.

We all know the topic is a heated one. We also know the topic is not one with an easy solution everyone will love.

That said, it does not help the flow of ideas to call anyone ignorant, stupid, or whatever. Please keep that away from this thread please, thanks.

Also, the topic is talking about geopolitical ownership of land. Similar to the way I live on land controlled by the United States. If you don't believe in geopolitical borders, that's certainly your right but it is not reality being that this is the way the entire planet has been divided up since long before we were here.

Like it or not this is a hotly contested land mass that a lot of groups find important.

Infamous Zordak9: was there a point to that? If you disagree with someone's argument regarding Israel and the Jewish claim to the land, great, put it in a civilized fashion.

[edit on 4-7-2005 by Djarums]

If the land is so holy to so many, why do they not act out of the wisdom that supposedly befits those who are holy, or "of the holy," and live in mutual harmony? Because the holiness of the land, rather than a genuine spiritualism or principle to those who squable over it, is used only as an excuse for their real reason for wanting it: left-over, animalistic, territorial instinct. Humanity needs to move beyond this. That would be wise. That might give some meaning to our "holy" origins. But who am I? Meh.

End the conflict? Stop messing with Israel and let them have fun. I mean come on, if we let them have fun they would control the Middle East and the War on Terror would be over. But nooooo, they kill terrorists, we tell them stop, we fire bomb 100,000+ civillians and we the good guys.

Originally posted by verfed
Um Kidfinger I think you missed the point of my post and in fact of this entire topic. You sound like you belong in the Hippies R, Us forum.

no offense

are you member of the "schmucks R us" fanbase?

So if you believe that this planet does not belong to humans, that we co-exist with a multitude of other species and beings, that makes you a hippie??? It seems nowadays that anyone who says ANY-thing in defense of those who cant speak, is a hippie!
Any shred of care or worry about the direction were taking our life support system (earth) is considered "liberal-wussy-tree-hugger BS".

And also let me ask, if thats what being a "hippie" means, whats so wrong with hippies?

Random voice: "they smoke that devil weed marihuana, and...um...have long hair!!!"

Originally posted by verfed
Um Kidfinger I think you missed the point of my post and in fact of this entire topic. You sound like you belong in the Hippies R, Us forum.

no offense

So just because you type 'no offence' after insulting me Im not supposed to be insulted?

Ok, if this is how you want to play it. How about we discuss the fact that Isreal and the Palistinian people BOTH are acting like a bunch of fourth grade school kids with bombs. IMO, Isreal should be dismanteled as I see them as one of the largest road blocks to peace in the middle east. The Isreali government is bullheaded and arrogant. They have no respect for the land they live on or the people they live with. Please stop portraying them as a guiding light in a sea of darkness when the truth is, they are the ones turning off the lamp.

Folks, just another reminder:

This discussion is about possible ways to end the conflict regarding a tract of land in the middle east and it's disupted ownership. I understand that some people don't agree with geopolitical borders entirely. That's fine, but it really has nothing to do with the topic at hand. If you wish, please open a thread regarding your disdain for such borders and claims.

Also, references to those disagreeing with you as "hippies" or "schmucks" is not tolerated on ATS. We all have different opinions and we are all capable of disagreeing without resorting to infantile commentary like that.

Please refrain from letting it get to that again.

James,

I hope your last post was tongue in cheek.

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by verfed

Roman arches prove that ancient Israel existed at one time? There are arches through out the region, there are roman buildings through out the region. A menorah? Are you sure that is not just a candle holder?

Icomewithasword you are officially pronounced ignorant until proven otherwise.

I can see that you didn't pick up any sort of history book. You keep insisting that the ancient Hebrews are a fairy tale found only in the bible.

I can't argue with your sour intellect. Goodluck Icomewithasword.

Here is one last attempt of mine to help you:



Ancient Israel

More Ancient Israel

[edit on 4/6/2005 by verfed]

That is a very good suggestion, I suggest you crack open that history book or read your own link. Here is the source of their information, FYI

Resources
Primary Sources

From Genesis
From Exodus
From Isaiah
From 2nd Kings 15
From 2nd Kings 23
Pslam 119
From Isaiah
From Daniel
From Ezra
From Amos
From Maccabees
Secondary Sources

Give me a break, break open a history book. DOH!!!

Dear all,

Just to let you in on a little secret, the Bible is a book. It was written by a group of men.

It is nothing more than that.

Cheers

BHR

P.S. So is the Torah and the Koran.

BHR, that is of course your opinion, which you have every right to have.

But it would be good to understand that a good few Billion people don't feel that way.

Trying to understand other people's ideas is the best way to get to the bottom of a situation.

DJ,

What of my post was factually incorrect?

Cheers

BHR