NEWS: Putin's Chief of Staff Warns Russia May Collapse

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I think the Soviet collapse was a ploy actually. It allowed Russia to centralize their power, slash their spending on social maintenance, and consolidate power away from the unstable buffer states. This is likely another false alarm, a sort of test to see what happens, perhaps a decoy to embolden Russia's enemies to identify and expediate their elimination.

I'd be really surprised if the Russian state collapsed for real, it just seems like they have too many resources, too much power, and too many lucrative contracts. They've got a hell of a lot of oil, and a lot of very good weapons systems for export to places like China, Venezuela, India, and other states.

So, yeah, it's probably a ploy. We'll see how it all plays out though.

Joel Skousen would agree with you. He thinks the collapse of the Soviet Union was a carefully planned deception: www.joelskousen.com...

A very intriguing viewpoint.

WyrdeOne, it is true that the US has decreased some of it's finantial aid to Russia, but the amount still being used for aid to Russia should be very close to what i stated. The total aid to Russia includes the commitment by the US to help the former U.S.S.R. deal with WMD after the "collapse."

Additionally, McGinnis said the United States has, for more than a decade, engaged in a huge program of cooperation with the states of the former Soviet Union to address the "threat posed by the Cold War legacy of WMD [weapons of mass destruction] programs." That program, which has to date been allocated a total of $8 billion -- with another $1 billion requested for fiscal year 2004 -- has helped to eliminate about 900 ballistic missiles, more than a hundred bombers and almost 50 ballistic submarines. Furthermore, it has redirected the efforts and skill of thousands of scientists formerly involved in WMD activities into civilian programs, he said.

Excerpted from.
tokyo.usembassy.gov...

The above is part of the 10-10-10 agreement which was made by the west to send aid to Russia to deal with it's wmd.

According to this agreement the US would pay half, $10 billion, while the rest of the G8 countries would pay together the other $10 billion.... (nice for us to be paying more than the rest of the G8 nations...)

Here is a link to this agreement.
www.cdi.org...

Appart from this we have other programs to send aid to Russia, and it's former states.

The US humanitarian assitance to Russia has declined since 1999. In 1999 this assistance was 1.1 billion for that fiscal year, while in 2004 it was $250 million.

The amount of U.S. Government-funded humanitarian assistance being provided to Russia peaked at more than $1.1 billion in FY 1999 but declined to about a quarter-million dollars in FY 2004. This assistance has included the provision of food commodities by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and medical and other humanitarian commodities provided by the Department of State Humanitarian Transport Program.

Excerpted from.
www.geographyiq.com...

There is also educational aid which is sent to Russian and it is included in the following link.

www.dec.org...

The total aid seems to be around $2-3 billion. My initial figure of $6.5 billion is wrong.

[edit on 4-4-2005 by Muaddib]

Thanks for putting together all of that research Muadibb.

I know the US gives astounding amounts of money to other nations. I think a better system of tracking and oversight is necessary, otherwise it's pretty clear most of the money will end up going to waste, or being pocketed by various 'administrators' along the way.

I mean, what's the point of giving money to a cause if it never gets there?

That's why I protest people giving anything to the Red Cross, because they proved on 9/11 that they were not trustworthy. When I saw their logo everywhere during the Tsunami crisis in Indonesia/SE Asia I just had to roll my eyes. People are giving them Billions of dollars, and what are they doing with it? I would sooner give money to bums in Manhattan than the Red Cross, at least with the bums there's a 50% chance they'll spend the money on something worthwhile, like alcohol.

Sorry, that was way off topic. Moving on...

Originally posted by the_oleneo

Joel Skousen would agree with you. He thinks the collapse of the Soviet Union was a carefully planned deception: www.joelskousen.com...

A very intriguing viewpoint.

I have been saying this ever since i became a member of these forums, and provided evidence that corroborates what i stated. Very few members belived this, even though i provided the statements from former high ranking Russian military who have been saying this since at least 1984. That the Kremlin had a long range plan, and part of the plan was to stage a collapse of the U.S.S.R. Part of this plan was/is to decieve the west into giving aid to the Kremlin.

[edit on 4-4-2005 by Muaddib]

Muadibb
I think the reason so few people accept it as a possibility is because we've built up this Cult of America, where all credit gets diverted to the personalities who abuse our trust. Reagan ended the Cold War some say.. Yeah, and trickle down economics saved our nation from poverty... That's just pride talking for the most part.

Wealth wicks up, it doesn't flow down. But that's another story.

I also think there's a lot of evidence for the other side, so it's not a clear cut case. It's just a possibility. I wouldn't count either case out, honestly.

Hmm,

would you care to elaborate what was the grand master plan of the cunning Kremlin deceptors? I might be missing something here. What exactly cause they promote by starving their military to death, losing the geopolitical game -- with the NATO and US military bases close to the heartland, and plunging their popluation into misery? What kind of gambit is that? I'm just curious. For one, I would love to believe there was a clever plan.


[edit on 5-4-2005 by Aelita]

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I think the Soviet collapse was a ploy actually. It allowed Russia to centralize their power, slash their spending on social maintenance, and consolidate power away from the unstable buffer states.

Wow WyrdeOne, do you work in financial management somewhere? That's an excellent theory I had not thought about but financially it makes great sense considering how the US focused on bankrupting the USSR in the 70s/80s.

It's the geopolitical equivalent of buying up smaller companies, keeping the cash cows and selling off the dogs.

Originally posted by Aelita
Hmm,

would you care to elaborate what was the grand master plan of the cunning Kremlin deceptors? I might be missing something here. What exactly cause they promote by starving their military to death, losing the geopolitical game -- with the NATO and US military bases close to the heartland, and plunging their popluation into misery? What kind of gambit is that? I'm just curious. For one, I would love to believe there was a clever plan.


[edit on 5-4-2005 by Aelita]

Aelita, i have given interviews and other evidence to corroborate this before. There is even another thread in here recently where I gave some of that evidence.
I think this link is to the most recent thread about this topic.
www.abovetopsecret.com...


The following excerpt, which i have posted before, explains the Kremlin plan i am talking about.

Nagorno-Karabag: A Case Study in "Perestroika"
by Dennis R. Papazian, Ph.D.
Dr. Dennis R. Papazian is a professor of Soviet history, the founder/director of the Armenian Research Center at The University of Michigan, Dearborn, and a member of the faculty of the Center for Russian and East European Studies at The University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. This paper is a preliminary draft/study written for oral delivery at the annual conference of the AAASS in Washington, DC, Friday, October 19, 1990.
......................
More recently, Anatoliy Golitsyn, a Soviet defector of high status, has suggested that the Soviet Union is capable of disinformation on such a massive scale that even the Borkenau system is no longer viable.2 In a book first published in 1984, and of necessity written before then, Golitsyn argues that the leadership of the whole Communist bloc came to an agreement in 1958 in which it established a long range program, a master plan, which it would realize through a large scale deception of the West, a monumental scam.

Golitsyn maintains that the goals of the master plan were to provide a more profound political stabilization of individual communist regimes by developing wider mass support, the rectification of economic weakness of the bloc by increased international trade and the acquisition of credits and high technology from the West, the creation of a substructure for an eventual world federation of communist states, political isolation of the US from its allies, developing influence among socialists in Western Europe and Japan, the dissolution of NATO, and an alignment between the Soviet Union and a neutral, preferably socialist, Western Europe; concerted action with nationalist leaders in the Third World to eliminate Western influence as a preliminary to absorbing them in a communist federation, shifting the balance of power in favor of the Communist world, and the ideological disarmament of the West to create favorable conditions for convergence of East and West on communist terms.
.....................

Some of the techniques, according to Golitsyn, will be dissension within the bloc, unity of action behind disunity of words, a show of weakness before meeting with Western leaders or before major initiatives or negotiations, and the heavy use of disinformation.5 This disinformation will emanate from official Communist sources, unofficial Communist sources, and "secret" communist sources, much of it retrospective. It is to be delivered through Western newspapermen, scholars, officials, and the Soviet intelligentsia.
........................
Golitsyn predicted the "breakup" of the communist bloc in Eastern Europe as a technique to be used by the Soviet government to entice Europe to move more towards socialism and to align itself eventually with the USSR against the United States.8 The Third World would then join communist Russia and socialist Western Europe against the US and its allies. Then there would be a joint drive by the Soviet bloc and a socialist Europe to push the US out of Europe and into nuclear disarmament. A powerful world federation of communist states would emerge and the US would be induced to "converge" on communist terms.

Excerpted from.
www.umd.umich.edu...

Golitsyn is not the only soviet high ranking military defector that has been telling us about this plan.

Here is another high ranking Russian military defector talking about this same topic.

I would like to ask about Czechoslovak communist Army General and member of the Czechoslovak Defense Council, Jan Sejna, who defected to the United States in 1968. Sejna defected before Brezhnev’s minions in Czechoslovakia had chance to arrest him for warning then Secretary General of the CP of Czechoslovakia Alexander Dubcek about a Russian-led invasion. Sejna says in his book We Will Bury You that he had firsthand knowledge of the Soviet long-range plan to stage a false collapse of the communist Warsaw Pact alliance in order to disarm America and NATO. Do you agree that this is what happened in the “former” bloc countries?

I don't know what the collapse of communism looks like from the American point of view, but from the painful experience of the citizens of all the post-communist countries the collapse of communism is a pure fiction. Communists and their communist pyramid of power remain untouched. From the self-invited owners of the state wealth, that is from communists and cadres of the communist Gestapo STB, officers of the communist SS "People's Militia" and other comparable criminals, there turned out to be new lawful owners of everything that was of any value in these "former" communist countries – and it was done through a fraudulent privatization process.

The communists are doing everything possible to disarm the West and at the same time they are making sure that their own power and military strength remain untouched. From this position communists can dictate to the West their evil conception of a world communist order. The West can accept this the easy way or the hard way.

Excerpted from.
www.worldthreats.com...


Links to some of the other threads about this topic.

Are the Russians behind the Attacks

Major Russian armed forces exercises to be held in June

Are the relations between Russia and the U.S still in good standing?



[edit on 5-4-2005 by Muaddib]

titian
Used to be a lowly desk warmer in a financial/web services corp. Used to be a lot of things actually. Now I'm more of a mountain hermit who digs in the dirt and breaks rocks. Aint life grand?

Aelita
Muadibb pretty much covered it - information came out from several sources claiming it was a ploy to weaken our global position and force us to subsidize their plans in the interest of 'building democracy.' If this is true, it's pretty damn clever.

And of course the people suffered..the people always suffer when lorded over. We suffer regardless actually. Historically, suffering is the rule. I'm hoping the coming years change that for a while, but there's no way to know until the clock strikes midnight, so to speak.

Muadibb
Thanks again! You're providing very relevant stuff to the discussion.

The issue, when it all boils down, is this; who thought more moves ahead in the game?

From my experience studying Russian intelectual pedigree, versus English intelectual pedigree, I think advantage sits with the Russians. The Russians had/still have startsy, brilliant esoteric philosophers, whereas the English had..ornamental hermits. Wealthy land/estate owners in England used to pay thinkers to come and decorate the custom built grottos with their presence. The English would sometimes mandate things like beard length, and number of hours to be spent in meditation... They wanted it all to look authentic.

I'm highly biased, mind you, because I have a great deal of Scots ancestry. And y'all know how the Scots regard their 'Lords and Masters.'

So, who thought more moves ahead in the game...

I don't know..I have my suspicions and what not..but I don't know for sure one way or the other. I imagine all those who do know are either working for the 'smarter' side, or fertilizing daisies at their local cemetery. With a deception this grand, no variable can be left unaccounted for, no loose ends are acceptable. There's too much invested for it to sour over a few sets of loose lips.