Free trade may have finished off Neanderthals

"Modern humans may have driven Neanderthals to extinction 30,000 years ago because Homo sapiens unlocked the secrets of free trade, say a group of US and Dutch economists. The theory could shed new light on the mysterious and sudden demise of the Neanderthals after over 260,000 years of healthy survival.

Anthropologists have considered a wide range of factors which may explain Neanderthal extinction, including biological, environmental and cultural causes. For example, one major study concluded that Neanderthals were less able to deal with plunging temperatures during the last glacial period."

www.newscientist.com...

So it was "free trade" huh.........Perhaps they just inter-married with homosapiens. Or they were a race of 'slaves". This pretty thin.

Originally posted by DrHoracid
"Modern humans may have driven Neanderthals to extinction 30,000 years ago because Homo sapiens unlocked the secrets of free trade, say a group of US and Dutch economists. The theory could shed new light on the mysterious and sudden demise of the Neanderthals after over 260,000 years of healthy survival.

Ooooooookkkkkkkkkkaaaayyyyy.... (she says bemusedly) I'm gonna have to look into that, myself.

Anthropologists have considered a wide range of factors which may explain Neanderthal extinction, including biological, environmental and cultural causes. For example, one major study concluded that Neanderthals were less able to deal with plunging temperatures during the last glacial period."

Agreed that the "less able to deal with plunging temperature" is pretty thin. In fact, their body types would indicate that they were probably better at it (short, stocky, thick torsos.) If they'd been tall and skinny, I think I could buy into that theory, but like you I'm more than a tad skeptical of the "froze ta death" argument.

My theory is that we ****ed them into extinction. Literally.

Originally posted by merka
My theory is that we ****ed them into extinction. Literally.

We did what?



Seriously, free trade is an interesting thought about the extinction event. I say let's not trade with China.

If its true that we inter( you know what) then would that mean that white/european ppl are different from the rest of the people in the world? Since we would have been the only ones to inter?

Edit: Hey I guess those women were right when they called me a neandertal

[edit on 4/4/2005 by Croat56]

Neanderthals were spread throughout Asia as well, so if any interbreeding took place it would be on a big enough scale to affect all humanity at the time.

Free trade doesnt sound that convincing though, so what is humans spoke more? Doesnt automatically lead to success.

I think humans simply outbred neanderthals.

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
Neanderthals were spread throughout Asia as well, so if any interbreeding took place it would be on a big enough scale to affect all humanity at the time.

Are you sure I thought they were only in Europe? Well then I guess that changes my question to us being different from say Africans, aboriginies, Native Americans.

Dont quote me on this, but im fairly sure that Neanderthals were dead/reduced to tiny groups, by the time that people left Africa and Europe, so any native americans etc would be the same as Europeans and Africans.

Also if they were different surely their DNA would show this and someone would have noticed that by now.

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
Also if they were different surely their DNA would show this and someone would have noticed that by now.

Thank God I was wrong. The kkk would have a field day. Now lets all work for global peace. Hey we already got rid of one group of people, why get rid of another?

Neanderthals didn't go extenct. I have a brother-in-law you have to see....

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
Dont quote me on this, but im fairly sure that Neanderthals were dead/reduced to tiny groups, by the time that people left Africa and Europe, so any native americans etc would be the same as Europeans and Africans.

Also if they were different surely their DNA would show this and someone would have noticed that by now.

Unaware of any DNA samples from Neander's. Just speculation of their existence. No 'hard" evidence...............

I think that some corpses were found that were intact enough to extract a DNA sample from.

However even if that isnt the case the different genetics of two species is easily apparant so it would have been noticed any way.

I think this has been an on-going theory in Anthropology....but no one ever really came out and admitted they thought it was actually possible...Too many people afraid they may loose their tenure for going too far left or right.....

I think this is an idea that should be considered as a relative possibility....Assuming from archaeological evidence that homo sapiens and neandertals never actually lived "co-ed" so to speak, then this allows for that gap to take place during which modern man separated himself....

It's not to say that neandertals "couldn't keep up"....But with the advent of new tools, organization, domestication, etc in Group A, and primitive stone tool technology with limited band-to-band interaction in Group B, it's not hard to guess which one is going to multiply at a quicker rate....


[edit on 4/5/2005 by EnronOutrunHomerun]

Originally posted by DrHoracid
"Modern humans may have driven Neanderthals to extinction 30,000 years ago because Homo sapiens unlocked the secrets of free trade, say a group of US and Dutch economists.

Groups of sapiens trading technology and goods between groups would allow the individual groups to rapidly adapt to new situations and to have technology that would give them the upper hand over neanderthals, who, in this study anyway, aren't freely trading between one another and aren't 'advancing'. Its been long recognized that neanderthal technology didn't change very much over long periods of time and that their culture was extremely stagnant.

Perhaps they just inter-married with homosapiens

The only genetic evidence indicates that they didn't, or rather, most strictly speaking, the genetic evidence does not support any interbreeding. There are, however, some specimins, mostly from spain I recall, that are thought to have slight morphological characteristics that are 'intermediate' between neanderthal and sapiens. Whether or not they were actual hybrids remains an unanswered question, and if they were, its not known if they were sterile or not.

Unaware of any DNA samples from Neander's.

An abstract for an analysis of mtdna retreived from a neanderthal specimin
the pdf file for the above paper
An article on the few samples recovered
Apparently there have been two samples recovered, the more recent one being the less hotly contested.

croat56
then would that mean that white/european ppl are different from the rest of the people in the world?

Thing is, 'white' people aren't different, infact, there isn't really anything uniting 'white' people into a single conglomerate group anyway. The fact that there isn't really anything really unusual in european populations would seem to indicate that they aren't descended from neanderthals.
Notice, however, that this is not to say that there aren't genetic markers that define groups within europe, nor even that there aren't markers that are throughout 'europe', but that there aren't markers that are throughout 'europeans' and restricted to 'europeans'. "European" is a political term, not a biological one.

EnronOutrunHomerun
but no one ever really came out and admitted they thought it was actually possible...Too many people afraid they may loose their tenure for going too far left or right

No one is going to loose their tenure for having a 'non-consensus' opinion on neanderthal history.

Neanderthal's ranged from Central Asia and the Middle East, to Western Europe... at least according to this range map.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

Personally, my theory is that Homo Sapiens were simply more succeessful at reproducing and eventually took over Neanderthal habitats. This isolated the already sparse Neanderthal poplautions into units that were too small to be genetically successful, and thus a genetic "bottlenecks" occurred. Without new alleles being intorduced through metapopulation interaction, the fitness levels declined until they just became extinct.

We see this process occurring in countless areas of the plant with other organisms whose habitats become fragmented. Also, in some areas where generalists like coyotes move into wolve habitat.

[edit on 11-4-2005 by Hajduk]

Neanderthal's ranged from Central Asia and the Middle East, to Western Europe... at least according to this range map.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

Personally, my theory is that Homo Sapiens were simply more succeessful at reproducing and eventually took over Neanderthal habitats. This isolated the already sparse Neanderthal poplautions into units that were too small to be genetically successful, and thus genetic "bottlenecks" occurred. Without new alleles being intorduced through metapopulation interaction, the fitness levels declined until they just became extinct.

We see this process occurring in countless areas with other organisms whose habitats become fragmented. Also, in some areas where generalists like coyotes move into wolve habitat.


Sorry for the double post...

[edit on 12-4-2005 by Hajduk]

It is far more likely that neanderthals died out becuase the women did not wear make-up or shave their legs or armpits. Too ugly and disgusting to have sex with.........oh wait.........that's european women, wow new theory......neanderthals are european women!!!!!!!!!!!

Gotta call Chirac and tell him the news

Neanderthals are alive and well today, the majority of them have infiltrated the many levels of government in our respective countries.

I dunno, those strong cheek bones, high forhead and prominent chin are sketchy, but the adams apple might be what IDs 'er as a neanderthal!


Ha, sorry, couldn't resist.

I think the apple might mean she is actually a man.

[edit on 17-4-2005 by Hajduk]