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The grapes of wrath: depressed French wine producers bomb Government offices

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posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 10:20 AM
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Well in relation to this matter.....

I find it deeply boring and rather depressing; what I see at the moment are some Americans whining at anyone who has the audacity to see things differently to them and to wish to be different to them.

France and Germany being the 2 major examples at the moment (although by implication - and explicitly at times - 'Europe' usually gets trashed too for this).

Actually I don't see a superiority complex apparant in the French, I do see a determination not to allow the USA to submerge and pervert French culture in the 'neo-Americana' some seem determined to inflict as widely as possible.

I also see plenty of rather tiresome and risible American superior attitudes on display.

It might help if 'they' actually had anything genuinely superior to be crowing about.

(.....and the US military is IMO about as impressive as the USSR's was - ie not particularly at all, it's a pissing contest in uniform......except nowadays with only one contestant zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ie really rather pointless and very very boring - and IMO probably well on the road to inflicting huge and irreversible damage to the US economy just like that which happened to the USSR's thanks to the grotesquely bloated state of it's budget and it's insatiable demand for $ thanks to the ludicrously insatiable paranoia driving it.
But still justy my 2 pennies/cents.)

As for the French farmers?
Well let's put it like this, farming cannot be looked at in purely 'market terms'.
New farmers are not going to just spring into being and enter the market in relation to changed demand, hence the 'un-market like' CAP etc etc.
Every country has it's system of farming subsidies in some form or another.

If the price of a cohesive stable society is that sometimes we pay a penny or two more to make sure our farmers are there in times of need then big deal.
I shall not complain.

The French unions have always had a reputation for going pretty far when they felt like it; it's not 'right' and it is of course illegal......and if caught the people responsible will be dealt with by the courts as per.
But I also note they - as usual - kept it to a level where no-one was hurt.

But CAP is not perfect and it is of course subject to modification and change but it has changed markedly and, by the way, the cost of the EU's CAP has reduced drastically in the last 20yrs.
Fact.



[edit on 4-4-2005 by sminkeypinkey]




posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 10:28 AM
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as posted by Souljah
First: Was it really an Act of Terrorism? Or is it just about anything today an act of Terrorism, EXCEPT what US Goverment is allowed to do?


Souljah, what?
Are you telling me that blowing up government buildings does not constitute a/an act of terrorism? Holy cow, you have got to be kidding me!
Here you go....maybe this will clarify things a bit since you have yet to understand and grasp the meaning of an act of terrorism:
define: terrorism

If what is being described in this article is not an act of terrorism, what is it then? An act of terrorism is not merely limited and defined by the US, Souljah, despite what you think, it is universially defined and clarified.

You got to be kidding me.....:shk:

So let me guess here and allow me to ask you what I asked devilwasp:
Do you condone [agree] with these "pissed off" farmers that the best way to make their points heard or considered is to simply blow up some government buildings? Are you saying that it is not an act of terrorism [please see link provided for a defintion of]? If it is not, what is its classification? Just pissed and lacked simple problem solving skills so blowing a building up is justified?







seekerof

[edit on 4-4-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by boogyman
I love French wine French cheese French bread French dressing and French fries and it will take more then some half thought out reationary propaganda campaign to get me to stop. Lets be real people does anyone honestly think this action occured because a few Rednecks (who probably dont drink wine anyway) stopped buying French. Stop buying into the propaganda people!


A "few" rednecks? Fact, US trade involving french products has significantly declined since the whole issue started.


try this website
www.francesucks.com...

I am sure the next news flash will be the "bush" administration is planning an attack the terrorist.



[edit on 4-4-2005 by DrHoracid]



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by boogyman
I love French wine French cheese French bread French dressing and French fries and it will take more then some half thought out reationary propaganda campaign to get me to stop. Lets be real people does anyone honestly think this action occured because a few Rednecks (who probably dont drink wine anyway) stopped buying French. Stop buying into the propaganda people!


My wife and I, along with many of our friends, are avid wine drinkers. However, ALL of us have elected to boycott French products because of Chirac and his positions. Why in God's name would I support someone who doesn't support me? Sorry Frenchies... the pendulum doth swing BOTH ways.



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
Fact, US trade involving french products has significantly declined since the whole issue started.


- Jayzuss wept, the staggering conceit of it!

The fact is that as the 'new world' wine makers have expanded into traditional markets then traditional sources (France being a major one) have seen their market share shrink whilst wine makers like Australians, Chileans, Bulgarian and yes even Californians have all seen their market share rise.

This has been going on for at least the last 10yrs.

No big deal, nothing out of the ordinary, no surprises and no conspiricies and certainly nothing to do with the loopy right-wing element's absurd delusions of grandeur in the USA at the moment.

The US 'boycott' is very small potatoes in the face of all this, actually.

[edit on 4-4-2005 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
[A "few" rednecks? Fact, US trade involving french products has significantly declined since the whole issue started.


try this website
www.francesucks.com...

I am sure the next news flash will be the "bush" administration is planning an attack the terrorist.



[edit on 4-4-2005 by DrHoracid]



LOL what the hell is that site you are referring to?

Since 2002 (bear in mind 2001 saw a depression because of 9/11) the imports of French products/services is growing in the US -in fact the US has a trade deficit with France.

www.census.gov...

All these bogus talks about boycotting France. By the way, do a google with "boycott USA" and you will find a lot of hits with people from all over the world boycotting US products because of the war.

Blobber


[edit on 4-4-2005 by Blobber]



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 10:51 AM
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Or could Osama be trying to corner the world market for Saudi 'Wine" from those famous desert vinyards?


Hehe...that's pretty funny, as they don't drink (well, at least not when in the holy lands, but they'll drink like fishes when off of them, hehe...) (in my own experiences mind you).


When in Saudi, most of the American families made their own 'bathtub wine' and home brewed beers, as even though available at the various service commissaries, it went quick and was expensive.



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 10:52 AM
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I think I'm going to boycott American bourbon whisky because i don't like US policies... wait they make the best burbon so that would be a freakin dumb ass thing to do. Why drink less than the best
That is of course, if you like their wine in the first place. I think their wine is the best but as far as cheese goes Tasmania has them beat.



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Souljah, what?
Are you telling me that blowing up government buildings does not constitute a/an act of terrorism? Holy cow, you have got to be kidding me!
Here you go....maybe this will clarify things a bit since you have yet to understand and grasp the meaning of an act of terrorism:
define: terrorism

If what is being described in this article is not an act of terrorism, what is it then? An act of terrorism is not merely limited and defined by the US, Souljah, despite what you think, it is universially defined and clarified.

You got to be kidding me.....:shk:

So let me guess here and allow me to ask you what I asked devilwasp:
Do you condone [agree] with these "pissed off" farmers that the best way to make their points heard or considered is to simply blow up some government buildings? Are you saying that it is not an act of terrorism [please see link provided for a defintion of]? If it is not, what is its classification? Just pissed and lacked simple problem solving skills so blowing a building up is justified?


FIRST: I belive there are FAR WORSE acts of Terror being performed today, than this "incident" with the French Farmers. OK, if you want to call these people terrorits, go ahead, they seem to fit Your description - blowing up houses is an act of terrorism.

SECOND: Do you think they are doing this because they are Bored? Or do they have a valid reason? Maybe this is their last choice of being heard in the outside world! Today everybody is talking about them (well at least we here are), and yesterday nobody was talking about them.

THIRD: Is it really an Act of Terrorism? Looks more to me a Guerrilla style attack. Or are they Insurgents? This is where it gets complicated. Maybe because they are French, and USA dont like French - so basicly every story can be turned like this: French Farmers turn to Terrorism!

[edit on 4/4/05 by Souljah]



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid


A "few" rednecks? Fact, US trade involving french products has significantly declined since the whole issue started.


try this website
www.francesucks.com...

I am sure the next news flash will be the "bush" administration is planning an attack the terrorist.



[edit on 4-4-2005 by DrHoracid]


What point are you trying to make here Horacid? As far as I can tell you are simply using an irrelevant news story as a vehicle to express your own bigoted dislike of the French. How do you know that these French wine producers are Anti-American? They are all individuals, and boycotting their produce because of the decision made by their government not to support the war in Iraq is pointless. You are not showing any defiance to Chirac and his argaubly corrupt government, you are only affecting the livelihood of individuals, with individual ideas and individual viewpoints. Chirac's government may have had illegitimate reasons for not supporting the war as their own intersts were threatened, however this does not mean that the millions of ordinary people who opposed it for humanitarian reasons were wrong on the same level as he was.

The majority of the British population did not support the war in Iraq. Our government made the unpopular decision for us. Why not boycott British produce? It would have exactly the same effect - it would damage the livelihoods of people whose views are not necessarily the same as their government's?

And besides, as has already been mentioned, the damage done to French business by the unofficial American boycott is negligable. It's more to do with cheaper or even superior wine coming from other countries.

More to the point, what does an act of protest in France - a country in no way involved with America's war on an abstract noun - have to do with said "War on Terror"? Maybe this thread should be moved to the Rant forum, as it's quite obviosly nothing more than an excuse to rant about you moronic, xenophobic, stereotyping hatred for the French.



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 11:36 AM
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The French have quite a penchant for dramatics, strikes all over the place, you can't go a week without some strike or another (trains buses metro bin men god knows what), but they are good at it and more power to them. Recent French history is full of examples of this dramatic edge and extremism, the French Revolution, Napoleon, the various scandals in the Third Republic (Dreyfus et al), the extreme left/right parties of the '20s/'30s and more recently the Algerian crisis, student protests and public sector action.

When the French decide to do something it isn't in halves, its the whole thing in one go or not at all.

Obviously no one wants dynamite going off in public places, but i would be surprised if care wasnt taken to ensure no one was killed/hurt.

As for American anti-French sentiment, I would have to say its pretty pety. 'They didn't want to join us in a dodgey war so we're going to rename French Fries (which are Belgian anyway) Freedom Fries and not buy French produce! Ha so there!
' i really can't see any french person giving a cr*p, 'oh dear the silly little americans aren't drinking our wine or eating our cheese! oh whatever shall we do!'

agh, incase you havent noticed i like france, i used to live in belgium and there was a lot of french people (French nationals not Belge) in my school whom i got on well with, and i spent alot of my holidays there so all in all ive got a pretty bias view!



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 11:41 AM
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Great post mister CiderGood_HeadacheBad!



I must admnit I really enjoy your signature also! Sure made me Laugh!

"The midget Bush and that Rumsfield deserve only to be beaten with shoes by freedom loving people everywhere." - Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf




posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
FIRST: I belive there are FAR WORSE acts of Terror being performed today, than this "incident" with the French Farmers. OK, if you want to call these people terrorits, go ahead, they seem to fit Your description - blowing up houses is an act of terrorism.

Ummm, excuse me, this is not an argument of degrees, k? A sin is a sin. An act of terrorism is an act of terrorism. You still haven't answered what I have repeatedly asked, Souljah: If this is not an act of terrorism, what is it?
You have a screwed notion of blowing crap up just because, huh? You blow my house up, and its an act of terrorism....you know, meant to terrorize myself and my family. I don't give a rats arse if your doing it to send me a message or make a political statement. An act of terrorism is just that: an act of terrorism!




SECOND: Do you think they are doing this because they are Bored? Or do they have a valid reason? Maybe this is their last choice of being heard in the outside world! Today everybody is talking about them (well at least we here are), and yesterday nobody was talking about them.

Oh wait, no they are not bored, they are frailing crazy! Anyone, I mean anyone, thinks that blowing up a house or a building or a government building is the best way to get your message across or have your complaints listened to or addressed, needs to go see a psychologist, k?!
Then you come with this being their "last choice of being heard"? You got to be kidding me. Dude, we are not talking Palestine here. We are talking about the advanced and vaunted French! You know: cheese and sipping wine? Beautiful architecture, etc.? "Last choice" my arse. You are sounding more and more like a terrorist sympathizer every day. Are you? There is no excuse for acts of terrorism, period.




THIRD: Is it really an Act of Terrorism? Looks more to me a Guerrilla style attack. Or are they Insurgents? This is where it gets complicated. Maybe because they are French, and USA dont like French - so basicly every story can be turned like this: French Farmers turn to Terrorism!

Did you read the link provided giving you a definition of what terrorism was? Apparently not. Now you want to throw in the use of "insurgents"......dude...you need to hit the nearest Google station and do a little research. I have stated over and over, there is a difference between the two and it is their overall objectives and goals. :shk:


I'm not here bashing the French. I stepped into this thread because apparently, folks have no clue to what an act of terrorism is and isn't. Now we have branched into what is an "insurgent."
*shakes head*






seekerof

[edit on 4-4-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
But could the US boycot against french products after their lack of support for the war be behind this unrest.


LOL. What US Boycott? Are you back in fantasy land again?



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by CiderGood_HeadacheBad

More to the point, what does an act of protest in France - a country in no way involved with America's war on an abstract noun - have to do with said "War on Terror"? Maybe this thread should be moved to the Rant forum, as it's quite obviosly nothing more than an excuse to rant about you moronic, xenophobic, stereotyping hatred for the French.


First of all the bombing of any building to gain political end is an act of terrorisim. Next, get a sense of humor dude. I don't "hate" the french just too funny of a people to hate them. This thread is about farmers so "pathertic" that they bomb their own country becuase of the lack of market for their wine? What's next a c-4 "pastry" attack?


I don't want to diminish the terrorist issue here, but let's get real.

Point of order though, Terry Nichols was a farmer......hmmmmmmmm



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 02:05 PM
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....
Sticks of dynamite were thrown at agriculture ministry offices in Montpellier and Carcassonne in the early hours, causing serious damage but no injuries. A car was also burned outside ministry offices in Nîmes.

news.independent.co.uk...


Am I the only one here thinking something is not correct? Farmers throwing sticks of dynamite, and nobody got killed or wounded ?!?


I think these "sticks of dynamite" are just heavy firework or practice grenades, often thrown in demonstrations and football games.

By the way, nice sensationalism and dramatization Dr. Horricid by adding a non related pic with this story.

Edit: lol do a google with "bomb wine France", and you will see all the pathatic splashing "headlines" on certain sites, all linking to the independent.


Blobber




[edit on 4-4-2005 by Blobber]



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 02:22 PM
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I found this news on other sites, like this one:

Not drinking enough Wine?

And they have posted this news 3 days ago, on 1st of April.

April Fools?



[edit on 4/4/05 by Souljah]



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 02:25 PM
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Souljah,

LOL
well that may be the explanation.

Blobber

[edit on 4-4-2005 by Blobber]



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
...bombing of any building to gain political end is an act of terrorisim.

OK, let me extrapolate on this one.

On August 20th President Clinton launched scores of Tomahawk cruise missiles against alleged terrorist sites in Afghanistan and Sudan.

This facility hit by U.S. forces was the Al-Shifa pharmaceutical plant located in northeast Khartoum in Sudan. When the Shifa Company for Pharmaceutical Industries opened, the country's health minister, Ihsan el Ghabsawi, heralded it as a lifesaver. Two local businessmen put up the funding to build the North Khartoum complex which was valued at $27 million. It was capable of purifying and distilling water, producing drugs that fight tuberculosis, and manufacturing different types of medicines for humans and animals. In his remarks the health minister said this factory would help this struggling Third World country produce seventy percent of the country's needs of drugs. That remark was made before U.S. missiles razed the complex to the ground.

An Act of Terrorism, Doctor?



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
You blow my house up, and its an act of terrorism....you know, meant to terrorize myself and my family. I don't give a rats arse if your doing it to send me a message or make a political statement. An act of terrorism is just that: an act of terrorism!


anyone, thinks that blowing up a house or a building or a government building is the best way to get your message across or have your complaints listened to or addressed, needs to go see a psychologist, k?!
There is no excuse for acts of terrorism, period.
[edit on 4-4-2005 by Seekerof]


By that logic we're the biggest wacko terrorist on the face of the earth no other country in modern history has blown up more houses or government buildings then we have. Unless of course your saying only non state entities can be terrorists and an organized country can never commit acts of terrorism. In which case I'm sure the citizens of Stalinist russia Nazi germany Saddams Iraq and other such enlightened countries will beg to differ.

I think your definition of terrorism is a little too broad which I believe is the point Souljah is trying to make. Once you class every act of dissidence as an act of terrorism bad things can happen especially in countries with harsh laws that circumvent the judicial system specifically designed to combat terrorism.



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