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Late Pope Titled 'Great' by Cardinal (moved from ATSNN)

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posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 11:02 PM
Cardinal Angelo Sodano referred to the late pope as John Paul 'The Great,' in the text of his homily at requiem mass. The title has been used to describe only three previous popes and it's use is believed by some to signal an attempt to incline a conservative approach to the choosing of the next pope.
The conservative wing of the Roman Catholic hierarchy yesterday launched a pre-emptive strike, aimed at blocking any swing towards a more progressive stance following the death of Pope John Paul II.

His attempt to raise the late pontiff to the status of a saint within 24 hours of his death appeared to represent an effort to put Karol Wojtyla's profoundly conservative legacy beyond dispute and freeze the terms of debate on the next pope, signalling the start of what is likely to be a battle for the soul of the world's largest Christian denomination.

Today the cardinals will meet for the first time to begin the arcane andchange it protracted process of bidding farewell to John Paul II and finding a successor.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

The passing of the pope is not only the the loss of a spiritual leader for many but also is an oppurtunity for the church to either stay or change its course in economic, political and social views. Catholic or not, this fact is important because the church has a major influence on the daily values and subsequent opinions of many people and continues to be an indirect force in the shaping of societies.

I believe that is the important issue here.....the fact that the church has an incredible impact on people's decisions. Many people have gone to church since childhood and their beliefs are mirrored by church teachings. For the most part, this influence is positive, as the golden rule is a good general rule to live by and kindness/charity are common themes. But as applied to an increasingly progressive political structure in many nations, the church is a bit behind the times.

Partisanship is not just a political issue........the church's influence is immense in the personal lives of many individiuals and as a result, political views are flavored. It is difficult to say that state and church are seperated because of this and I think that the new pope has some interesting issues on his plate.........what direction his church will go in a rapidly evolving state of affairs.

Related News Links:
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[edit on 3-4-2005 by MemoryShock]

posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 11:19 PM

The Vatican's "prime minister", Cardinal Angelo Sodano, surprised church observers by describing the late pope as John Paul "the Great", a title only previously accorded to three of his 263 predecessors, all from the Dark Ages and all canonised.

He inserted the title in the text of his homily at a requiem mass for the Pope in St Peter's Square, although he held back from uttering the words.

I am curious as to whether or not the Cardinal's failure to utter the words, "the Great," has any bearing whether or not the title will become official and, as the new Pope has not been named, how will such an occurance affect the canonization of John Paul II.

posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 11:27 PM
Sounds like he's kissing ghostly butt in an attempt to draw attention to himself as a conservative who will emulate JPII. "Pick me, Pick me".
But they say that he who enters the conclave a pope exits a cardinal.

posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 11:55 PM
I think that people might want to refrain from using such phrases as 'behind the times'. Simply put, there is no logical reason to describe John Paul II's 'Culture of Life' philosophy as 'behind' the times. It is an alternate to what many people believe in... but there is no rational reason to describe it as behind other ideas in terms of intellectual progression. Believe it or not, but, many people will argue that so-called 'progressive' notions concerning things like embryonic research and cloning are not the obvious next step in human development. What a 'progressive' sees as inevitable can be seen as degenerative by a conservative.

I have a huge problem with the word 'progressive'. It implies that history and thought work in unalterable directions... and that ideologies that can be described as materialistic, nihilistic, and atheistic are the inevitable destination that history and human thought are heading towards. It is an intellectually flawed term... as, ultimately, those who believe that human life is sacred may yet win out over marxist-based competition.

posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 01:13 AM
Although Cardinal Saldano did not use the term "Great" in his homily, the written record is considered to be the official record by the Church.
I think it's simplistic to try to characterize JPII's idealogy as merely conservative etc. He had a real duality about his ideas and his teachings. Although conservative on some matters, he is liberal on others (if we are going to adhere to those terms).
The next few weeks shall be very interesting as we see who becomes the next Pope. I suspect we may be in for another surprise. Despite all arguments to the contrary, my intuition tells me that the next Pope will be from Latin America.
Choosing a Pope is something akin to choosing a Supreme Court may think you know what you're getting and find out that, freed from the bounds of having to constantly please others, people can act independently of what their past beliefs may have indicated.

posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 01:33 PM
I didn't realize that it was part of an official written record. Slipping something into the record which he couldn't actually say without raising a few eyebrows? Nothing sinister I suppose, but arguably not ethical.

posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 01:51 PM
I've gotta say that, its nice that many non-catholics were 'inspired' by the pope. Nevertheless, the pope is not a political figure, and the perception of how the pope will be received by the non-catholics in the world should not be somethign that the cardinals or the pope consider. True, as far as evangelizing, it would be important to pick someone that can appeal to non-catholics, but thats perhaps a special instance. In general tho, I just hope that there isn't a lot of input in the news and media from lots of non-catholics on the cardinals needing to pick someone who is more liberal, or more conservative, or anything.

posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 01:56 PM
Sorry but I'm kind of getting sick of all this talk about JPII being so great. I mean people are on TV news saying something like "He's one of the greatest men ever because I told him a joke and he laughed." I mean come on! Yes, he did some great things in his life for all humanity, but he also presided over the Catholic Church during the U.S. priest pedophilia scandal and did almost nothing about it. He was just a man with strengths and weaknesses like everyone else.

posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 02:24 PM
First of all, I realize that many people are not fond of the continued coverage of the JPII and his now vacant position. I don't think that's because it is an unworthy subject though. I think that's because it has been covered by unworthy news services. The media dumbs down the issues and does not encourage inquiry. This is a failure that I would not like to see repeated on ATSNN.
There are very valid and perhaps, to some people, interesting questions raised by what is going on in the Catholic church now, including with this titling of JPII as "The Great". I believe there was a political motive. It was written in the record but could not be said to the masses. WHY? Why is something done in semi-secret when it is supposedly for the honor of the deceased?

Now, for better or worse I'm afraid that the pope can't help but be political. Millions of people under dozens of governments all believe that whatever that man said was imparted to him directly by God as guidance to believers.
As it was said in the movie Gladiator, "Yes, but with an army behind you, you could be very political

I also think that JPII failed the great challenge of his later years though, and that it was not a political one. At times a pope can sound a lot like a beauty queen- "All I want is world peace". If the cardinals have the interests of the church at heart, and not strictly political interests, the next pope needs to be somebody who will take on the challenges facing the priesthood and root out the vices and scandals that have plagued the church.

That might make this news article all the more relevant really. Why exactly is JPII being titled great in the official record but not outloud? Would there have been a stir if those words had been uttered out loud? What does this say about the general attitude towards his papacy and the hopes of the average catholic for the next pope?

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