U.S. says Israel must give up nukes

Originally posted by bulgarian
its the same propaganda over and over again, just a little imagination:

- The US pushes Israel to disarm their NW
- Israel "officially" agrees but is secretly pushing forward their NW"s
- Iran and Syria don't quit their NW research, because they know that Israelk would never quit their NW programm.
- The US and Israel have an "good", but as always "fake" argument to invade Iran/Syria.

Think a little bit more when You get Your news on FOX and CNN.

[edit on 3-4-2005 by bulgarian]

Yeah its a nice dream but I think you are on the bal with this post. BTW I cant see China, Russia, France or the US rushing to disarm.

If Israel gets rid of its nukes then there is no justification for the Iranian nuclear programe.

Therefore Israel decomisioning its weapons would be a move towards peace that lowers tension in the region.

Those two poor state department guys just ensured that they will at the very least never get a promotion again and will most likelly be looking for new jobs shortly. Israel will not cave on this matter any more than they will give up and decide to leave the region. And even if they did want to cave they couldn't because of the utterly catastrophic reprecussions there would be when inspectors came in and found the stash of israeli nukes with "Made in the USA" stamped on the side.

It's a good move.

If Isreal has no nukes, then there is no lack of balance in the region. This way no ME country can justify having nukes.

Thus, when we find out they are trying to build them (and they are) we can take them out.

Sorry Uncle Joe but when the entire Iranian parliament goes into a frenzy of chanting "Death to America, Death to Israel and Death to the Infidels" after signing a bill saying "We will enrich uranium because we are sovereign" That just seems like not the kind of national attitude that will suddenly go: "Oh the Israelis dismantled their nukes.

I guess we don't need nukes and maybe we can be friiends again" "No more chants about Israel guys"

New Iranian chant after newfound love and friendship with Israel and the West sweeps Iran after Israel dismantles its nuclear weapons:

"Death to Pokemon, Death to China and Death to Starbucks"


*edit

Sugarlump it was the French that helped Israel with the Dimona reactor and the nuclear arsenal not America. So: "Made in Israel by Frenchmen"

[edit on 4/3/2005 by verfed]

When has Israel stolen land? When Great Britian defeated the Turkish they occupied the land. The Turks had ruled Palestine for centuries and now another foreign empire was in control.

In 1920 The British Empire set up the Mandate for the Jewish National Home. It was quite large containing all of modern Israel and Jordan. In 1921 the Brits partitiioned the Jewish mandate into two. The Brits gave 2/3rds of the Jewish mandate that they themselves set up to Emir Abdullah. That new land was called Transjordan. There was no such thing as Jordanian people but suddenly now there were.

The Brits and French divided the conquered turkish empire in the Middle East and set up a bunch of mandates. Those two powers cleverly divided the Arabs to keep them weak and unable to become a power so they could still control the oil.

Anyways the Brits became tired of the Jewish problem so they handed it over to the United Nations. The UN partitioned the remained Jewish land once again. Keep in mind that the Jewish National Home was already partitioned into a Jewish and an Arab state but the UN divided Israel again. Also no Jew could own property in Transordan: NO JEWS ALLOWED.

The Jews reeling from the Holocasut accepted the partition but the Arabs DID NOT. The Israelis declared their independence and six Arab armies invaded on May 15, 1948.

Hundreds of thousands of Arabs were told to leave their homes by the invading Arabs so they could fight the war against the Jews. Of course once the Jews were driven into the sea the Arabs could return. Well the Jews won the war and over 500,000 Jews fled Arab countries some with just the shirt on their back and arrived in Israel as full citizens.

Meanwhile the Arabs who fled Israel were not allowed entry as citizens into other Arab countries. The Israelis conquered a little bit more then the UN had partitioned for them but we all know that ownership is 90% posession. Plus who does the UN think they are to dictate when and where a sovereign nation can give and take land.

Did Israel steal land? No the Brits did when they legally conquered the Turks territory after World War I. The Brits OWN the land and can do what they please because they had the power. The Brits decided that the Jewish National Home will be on a tiny spot in the Middle East. The rest of the land will be given to various Arab sheiks and princes.

When the controlling power of the British Empire left the Jews declared their independence won that war then defeated the Arabs again in 1956, 1967, 1973 and 1982.

Israel peaked in size on June 11, 1967 after six days of Arab humiliation and defeat. The Sinai was given back fully to Egypt on April 25, 1982. A few strips of Land was given to Jordan in a 1994 peace agreement. An 18 year buffer in Lebanon was withdrawn in 2000. Throughout the 90's and through 2005 Israel has only given land away to the Palestinian Authority.

Also that fence is so deliberately temporary that it is hilarious to compare it to the permanent walls of the past.

Did Israel steal land? Did America steal Land from the Cherokee? Did the Brits steal land from the Irish? Don't the Spanish still have cities within the sovereign nation of Morocco on the coast? Did China invade Tibet? Didn't the Turkish invade Cyprus, a sovereign nation in 1974?

Yes and Yes. But are they all wrong?

The Jews just wanted a home on the land of their ancient kingdom. The Arabs just don't want that at all. The Brits played the Arabs against eachother and yes Israel was part of their plan of dividing the middle East but does that matter now? The Jews are there to stay and the Palestinian refugees are the Arabs problem not the Jews problem.

If the Arabs want to be mad, be mad at the Brits for "stealing" Turkish land after World War 1.

Originally posted by Terapin
Wait a minute.... Israel steals land from the Palestinians and it is the Arabs fault for not making space for them????? So, it is OK for Israel to steal land, destroy personal properly, refuse to offer compensation and defy international accords on where the border of Israel should be??? Lets forget about how Israel routinely violates the Geneva convention. For a time Israel even legalized the torture of SUSPECTS, Suspects mind you, not proven enemies just suspects. They even enacted a program to break the arms of children who threw stones at soldiers (yes they actualy did this) yet they call themselves the victim? BALONEY!
It is racist arrogance. Israel does not need Nukes. Neither does Iran. If Israel is serious about wanting Peace and wishes to make claims of superior morality then they should disarm. Israel should withdraw to the '67 border. Israel should pay compensation. Israel should rebuild what they have destroyed.

Less nukes, less kooks, would make the whole region a calmer place. I say NO MORE US TAX DOLLARS FOR ISRAEL. Other countries need our help and are more deserving.

I agree totally with your post, but don't forget that israelis are the real decision makers for the US, and as long it is so, there will be US tax dollars for Israel.

Originally posted by brill

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi

I am sure that Israel's nuclear program can be monitored and regulated as on a defensive line while all Arab nuclear programs and ambitions should be disallowed.

Wow the hypocrasy of that statement is incedible. What exactly puts Israel on a higher pedestal?

brill

To answer your questions simply:

1-
Israel = Democracy
Arab/Muslim states = Ruthless dictatorships.

2-
Israel = Does not target civilian populations as a strategy for political gain.
Arab/Muslim states = Targets civilian populations as a strategy for political gain.

3-
Israel = Most developed, literate and advanced country in the region.
Arab/Muslim states = Backward states that still do not allow freedom of the press.

4-
Israel = Have nuclear weapons for ~40+ years never used it.
Arab/Muslim states = Asides from Pakistan - none have it - don't think that they would hesitate to use it.

5- (added during edit)-MOST IMPORTANT:
Israel = Accountability.
Arab/Muslim states = through their terrorist proxys no accountability is available. Iran can hand over a nuke to Hezbullah, Islamic Jihad or Hamas much like they gave arms to the Palestinian authority against international treaties (see the Karin A freighter intercepted by the IDF).
Any questions?

[edit on 4/4/05 by JudahMaccabbi]

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi

5- (added during edit)-MOST IMPORTANT:
Israel = Accountability.
Arab/Muslim states = through their terrorist proxys no accountability is available. Iran can hand over a nuke to Hezbullah, Islamic Jihad or Hamas much like they gave arms to the Palestinian authority against international treaties (see the Karin A freighter intercepted by the IDF).
Any questions?

[edit on 4/4/05 by JudahMaccabbi]

sorry this most funny thing i have read
if Iran are so simply going to hand over nukes to hazbullah and so on
why havent they given them chemical weapons yet? ( they have a large known stockpile and they are just effective )
( the whole Iran is going to give nukes to hazbullah and so on argument is retarded )

also
they supply hazbullah and so on with arms and money to fight israeli occupation like the US supplied the mujahadein when they fought the soviets.



[edit on 4-4-2005 by bodrul]

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi

1-
Israel = Democracy
Arab/Muslim states = Ruthless dictatorships.

Means Arab states are more predictable

2-
Israel = Does not target civilian populations as a strategy for political gain.
Arab/Muslim states = Targets civilian populations as a strategy for political gain.

A large fraction of the Arabs in the occupied land are confined to specific areas and can't travel

3-
Israel = Most developed, literate and advanced country in the region.
Arab/Muslim states = Backward states that still do not allow freedom of the press.

True, but it sounds like you are saying Arabs are inferior so what the hell. Maybe they even deserve to get nuked. Actually, you do.

4-
Israel = Have nuclear weapons for ~40+ years never used it.
Arab/Muslim states = Asides from Pakistan - none have it - don't think that they would hesitate to use it.

Yes they would hesitate very much.

Any questions?

Not really, as I don't wanto to hear any of this condescending bull.

"
Meanwhile the Arabs who fled Israel were not allowed entry as citizens into other Arab countries. The Israelis conquered a little bit more then the UN had partitioned for them but we all know that ownership is 90% posession. Plus who does the UN think they are to dictate when and where a sovereign nation can give and take land.

Did Israel steal land? No the Brits did when they legally conquered the Turks territory after World War I. The Brits OWN the land and can do what they please because they had the power. The Brits decided that the Jewish National Home will be on a tiny spot in the Middle East. The rest of the land will be given to various Arab sheiks and princes."

Well Im sure that when the Brits owned the land the Palestinians wernt declared an inferior race by some group of people living there. The Palestians may of been conquered but they wernt overly opressed. Obviously there were no suicide attacks then so it couldnt of been that bad.

"Also that fence is so deliberately temporary that it is hilarious to compare it to the permanent walls of the past."

That wall is huge. THey must of spent millions on it. For it to be temporary?

"Did Israel steal land? Did America steal Land from the Cherokee? Did the Brits steal land from the Irish? Don't the Spanish still have cities within the sovereign nation of Morocco on the coast? Did China invade Tibet? Didn't the Turkish invade Cyprus, a sovereign nation in 1974?

Yes and Yes. But are they all wrong? "

Yeah. And it pissed the conquered people the # off. Look at all the wars and scirmishes we had with native americans, till re practically wiped them all out. It may not make them wrong but it sure pisses the losers off.

"The Jews just wanted a home on the land of their ancient kingdom. The Arabs just don't want that at all. The Brits played the Arabs against eachother and yes Israel was part of their plan of dividing the middle East but does that matter now? The Jews are there to stay and the Palestinian refugees are the Arabs problem not the Jews problem. "

The arabs dont want it because of what they do to the Palestians. So all teh arab countries are just supposed to accept the Palestians with big smiles on their faces and see Israel go unpunished? RIGHT.

If the Arabs want to be mad, be mad at the Brits for "stealing" Turkish land after World War 1.

Im sure they were a lot happier with Brits ruling them then Israel.

Originally posted by stumasonUS hypocrasy on this issue is one of the underlying causes for Arab/Muslim sentiment towards the US.

hypocracy how? last i looked israel, india and pakistan didnt sign the npt and even if they did they had nukes before 1967, so they would be considered nuclear states like the US, china, russia, france and the UK, we target iran and such because they signed the npt and non-nuclear states acquiring nukes violates the npt, why cant people understand this? theres no hypocracy at all

Originally posted by namehere
hypocracy how? last i looked israel, india and pakistan didnt sign the npt and even if they did they had nukes before 1967, so they would be considered nuclear states like the US, china, russia, france and the UK, we target iran and such because they signed the npt and non-nuclear states acquiring nukes violates the npt, why cant people understand this? theres no hypocracy at all

So wait, its okay for you not to listen to treaties BUT not for them?
Okay...

Originally posted by Asia Minor
It's just talk. Don't believe that garbage. They told Israel to withdraw and they didn't from Palestinian territories.

Yep its just a ploy.

Israel is the only nuclear nation that has never disclosed the number of nukes it has, or how far the range of those nukes are.

That wall is huge. THey must of spent millions on it. For it to be temporary?

Money isn'y everything. The Israeli's want to save lives regardless of the cost. Plus the Israelis do NOT want to make a line of where the future Palestinian state would be. This fence cannot be that line and the government is very adamant about that to the religious and extremist Jews.

rtsp://rmv8.bbc.net.uk/news/olmedia/cta/progs/04/hardtalk/taub05feb.rm

The arabs dont want it because of what they do to the Palestians. So all teh arab countries are just supposed to accept the Palestians with big smiles on their faces and see Israel go unpunished? RIGHT.

Yes they should! Why wouldn't they? they are fellow Muslims brothers running away from the "Evil Zionist Entity." The Middle East is huge. There is plenty of room for the few million Palestinians. But the other Arabs won't accept the palestinians. They want them to continue to be a thorn in the side of Israel.

What a great example of the religion of peace and love. "Lets sacrifice a few million of our people just so we can get rid of the Jews"

Yes everybody should give up their nukes but I think they might come in handy in deterring an alien invasion

Nuclear weapons advancements by Islamic nations has little to do with the Israeli nuclear program. They will continue to pursue their weapons.
What disarming Israel will do, however, is destabilize the area, giving those who wish nothing more than the demise of Israel motivation to attack them.

To call it hypocritical that Israel has been allowed to have nuclear weapons is to ignore their precarious position they have been in.

Now, why not stop and think about what might happen. If Israel doesn't have the military one-up on the Arab neighbors, they might just go ahead and do what they have wanted to do for decades. If that happens, the U.S. will counterattack, and do it hard and crushing. this might allow the U.S. government the chance to control more oil in the Middle East.

Sounds like a set-up, using Israel as the bait.

SO let me get this strait. If some foreign entity all of a sudden moves into your town and tells you to get the f out. And says if you stay you wont get a job, your kids wont get an education, and you will be mercilessly persecuted the rest of your life., that your just supposed to accept it and walk away with a big smile on your face? Dude what kind of drugs are you on man, i want some.

[edit on 5-4-2005 by alienpyro1]

Dumb as most Americans are, I expected many to beleive this foolishness that was said. I am surprised to see not many up here beleive this. In order for israel to give them up, UN weapons inspecters would have to monitor and over see this as Iraq was. Israel should not have nukes as they are very very threatening, irresponsible and overly aggressive. Everyone wants them because of Israel. All of these many decades no one had interest in getting them until rumors circulated that Israel had them. israel already has stirred up anger in the region over Palestine now they are threatening Iran. Not to mention they attacked Osirak in 81'. Such a nation needs no nuke weapons.

isrial haveing nukes is just a conveiniant excuse for others who want them to use. if isrial were to give up her nukes then isrial would become a weaker target of her over agessive neibers.

isrial has already been attacked on at least two ocasions. the nation should be able to protect it's self from the agressive nations surrounding it by haveing any weapon it can lay it's hands on, untill at least such a time as the surrounding nations and the palistinians leave it well alone in peace.

as i have stated earlyer if people would like isrial to get rid of their nukes fine. let isriel get rid of it's nukes as soon as you are finished makeing sure that no one has nukes to use against them. then after that you should provide armed forces and equipment free of charge to keep this tiny nation secure. as things stand now the fact that isrial has nuclear arms acts as a shield for protection. attack and you might get a nuke up your butt.

if you feel that isrial is easily panicked and tends to take a provocative stance. just look at the nations surrounding isrial, nations i might add that not only have attacked it in the past but are seen to support those who would see isrial thrown into the sea and destroyed. i am sure that isrial would welcome peace too bad that it is just a little bit hard to trust people who would rather see you dead.

isrial has faced armies and won now they have been faceing cowardly terrorist attacks because it is known that direct force is not only dangeous but can result in a nuke launched at them. oh yes continue to point to isrial as the agresser.what isrial does is agressivly defend itself in a region that is hostile towards them.