Weise story: should we be more responsible for our members?

I refer to that thread:
Weise story on MSNBC featuring Abovetopsecret

Great recording! Thank you very much for posting that.

I wasn't sure where to post this, so any mod, please move if unappropriate forum.

After this sad story, some questions remain now...

Should ATS members or staff feel more responsible after having read such posts, i.e. the ones showed on TV, and recorded in this video? Should the members or the staff report such "potentially dangerous situations"? I reckon that we cannot simply call the police for everything that people say that looks weird or too unusual, and I was not thinking explicitly about the police only, but some phrases by weise were quite explicit.

Should we, once we notice such ideas clearly expressed, try at least to investigate it, to contact the member, in a more personal manner maybe, and try to discuss the situation with him/her? I think weise was someone in great distress. Such situations can be noticed and can be helped.

I don't feel responsible for what happened. It is not the point, and if some people here maybe feel a bit responsible because they didn't do anything, they didn't talk with him too much or simply disregarded him as a weirdo, please don't feel responsible. I don't really think that we could have been doing anything to prevent that massacre from happening.

On the other hand, I feel very sad for our community that such an horrible event happened. And I thought it was important to raise that point. Should we, as a community, feel more responsible for our individuals? Should we, once we notice something that bad try to do something? I know we're no authority, no psychiatric hospital (though I wonder sometimes ), and we're not the parents of such kids in great need for help, but maybe if we had managed to speak more with him, understand and support him, I don't know what else, maybe he would have given up his plan...

Also, the presence of ATS on TV, in this case, raises some questions... Maybe this will cause more monitoring of posts here on ATS, though I don't really think that is a big problem as such. But, maybe this will attract a few more twisted minds in here, I say twisted in the meaning of sick. It would be really sad if psychpaths of all kinds would come to ATS and advertise their madness. It would even be more worrying if anything else happened in the kind... This, as a member of this community for a year now, would affect me. I feel good in ATS, and this would be a catastrophic thing if it happened again.

The questions are raised. Should we care more for us? Should we be more careful at people's distress? Should we feel more responsible for our members and try to take action to solve such situations of despair or need?

I think personally that when for the next time I read something that seems that bad, I will try to contact the poster and try to involve myself in bringing that person back into reality. I just may fail, but if I can help, I think I could then be very proud of having done something good.

Long read, I know, but I think it is important. Please share any comments or opinions on that.

no. Who wants to baby sit every member and worry about their personal problems? I am sure the mods have enough to do besides playing psychologist.

ICWAS, I was explicitly talking about us as a whole community.

Should we, as a community, feel more responsible for our individuals? Should we, once we notice something that bad try to do something?

Now, if that is your opinion, OK, I don't want to discuss about the people's opinions on that, but I want to make us think about whether we could or not take more care of our fellow posters.

we were not the problem. we have already stopped or slowed membership with the new application procedures. The mods should have a complete seperation with anyone or anything not on this site, and that would include our own private lives. Control over this board would not have stopped the murders. It might however, stop people from comming ot this particular site and goto another one.

yup forums and such are NOT responsible for the behaviour of their members.
now if this site was promoting such ideals then yes they should be responsible, but since they're not promoting it then they're not responsible.

sure if an individual member feels responsible for another, then it's their private issue and can deal with it over U2U

Because one nut out of a million decides to do something very, very stupid, should not have to make tougher on any other members. The Mod.'s here on this site do a very good job at screening offensive material and should get a rousing hand of applause. There is one thing I can't quite understand is the little animation thing this guy had depecting the murders of people. This type of behavior should have been caught: But on the other hand it could have been purely for show. It is always easy after the fact to point fingers because that just is human nature.
The Higher Up's here on ATS have done a good job and should not be blamed in any way, shape,or action.

NO, people are people and are going to do what they do.

Every point made has been good. I'm going to approach from a different angle, still 'NO' however.

If you contact person X and give them advice regarding their mental health, depending on where you live (laws vary from place to place), you may be held liable in a civil suit if person X goes on a rampage after your advice. While it wasn't your fault, it might be found that you contributed to their actions with your advice.

In court you might be asked by the plaintiff's lawyer:
"Are you a board certified practitioner of Psychology?"
"Well..no."
"Are you a liscensed Therapist or School Counselor?"
"No."
"Did you attend medical school, do you hold any degrees relevant to dispensing advice to the mentally ill, are you in any way qualified to assume the role of Doctor with this patient?"
"I wasn't assuming any role, I was just trying to.."
"Just answer the question."
"Okay..no, I'm not."
"No further questions."

It's unfortunate, but in some places you could be held liable if a court was persuaded that you contributed in any way to the actions of the person in question.

The key is whether you KNEW the person in question was mentally unstable. Looking at Weise's posts, I would not be comfortable being on his email list, let's put it that way.

I did not see any of the Weiss posts before the tragedy. But I think that if I had, I would have alerted someone at ATS. After the massacre, I went back and read some of the things Weiss posted and he definitely was on the edge and a ticking time bomb.

After it happened I had to take a step back and wonder whether I really wanted to participate on this board....

Why do i have a feeling sooner or later there will be a big wave ot suings going on if people persist on getting like this.. Kinda like Judist Priest or Ozzy getting sued for thier music causing some idiot to kill himself after listening to a song....

[edit on 4/3/2005 by ThichHeaded]

Absolutely not. People's private lives are their private lives, and should be dealt with by those closest to them in real life. On an internet chat board, it is not our responsibility nor right to monitor nor get involved in peoples lives, even if they are harming themselves or might harm others. Thats for they people in the real world to decide.

We already have enough problems with our govornments trying to butt their noses into peoples biz, or even trying to medicate or dictate to children in schools who they see as "problems".

Theres nothing that could have been done about this kid, it should have been his grand dad and his girlfriend who should have been paying attention and watching out for the kid.

I will be out of the norm here, I think we SHOULD talk to, and help those people in need. You may make a world of difference to their lives.

-Your Friend Liquid

I'm glad that at least someone agrees with what I'm enclined to think. On the other hand, people who don't think we should have good points, and personally, I hate it when people, especially strangers, touch my private life without being invited.

Now, I was not talking about being a psychiatrist for anyone, but just as a friend would do if you were going nuts, to tell you something like "he hold on buddy, do you think what you said? are you sure it's what you want?" As a friend... We don't have a right to mother the people (as someone said here), but I think we have a role in taking enough care of all of us.

I remember some discussion on the chat where some members were actually cooling down another one that has gone mad about a comment in a post. Nothing dangerous here (except banning for himself) but he eventually calmed down after hearing some good points... Like "the voice of the reason"... But it needs someone at least to speak it if one has to hear it...

Okay, being a friend and being a shrink are totally different, I'm sorry if I misinterpreted.

It's fine to offer encouragement and comraderie, humor and a willing ear. It's another thing entirely to offer advice with intent to 'cure' the malfunction or depression in question.

I don't always follow my own advice mind you, and if people need help I'm usually there, but there certainly is a limit.

The main point I wanted to make is that if someone is showing serious signs of being suicidal/homicidal you shouldn't meddle too much, because it might backfire, and not only will you probably feel some guilt, but the family of the person in question might bring a suit against you.

I don't want to sound like I'm advocating a sterile, emotion and friendship free environment, no at all. I just think some problems need to be solved in ones own head anyway, so why put yourself at risk for what amounts to a futile excercise? I think the friendships that people develop on ATS are great, they are meaningful and fulfilling in many ways. Just sometimes we need to step back and think of ourselves in order to avoid major problems.

Like, for example, don't jump out of the car and run to save some random guy being beaten on by a gang of a dozen men..unless your Kung-Fu is very strong.

While being a friend and helping each other out is always a key aspect of a community such as this, attempts by well meaning people to play amatuer psychologist is more likely to do way more harm than good. Being supportive and friendly even when you disagree with them will do far more good than trying to have a session on a virtual couch.

what happened to being responsible, or being held responsible for your
own actions? I know he was just a troubled kid, but he pulled the trigger.
granted there were signs that we may or may not have picked up on but, we cannot be held accountable for not picking up signs, it would have been
commendable if someone had picked up on a sign, but its not a sin if someone diden't. no one else was reposible.