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Jacques Chirac & Gerhard Schröder, Brothers in Communism!

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posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 03:18 AM
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In this piece I'll attempt to point out the sympathy these two leaders must have toward communism and it is their reasoning for backing the European Union's lifting of the embargo on China.


Jacques Chirac was initially attracted towards left-wing causes, leading him to sell the Communist newspaper l'Humanité and to sign the Communist-inspired Stockholm Call against nuclear weapons in 1950. These left-wing ties proved later a hindrance to him, for instance in his first visit to the United States and his military career. Indeed, even though he finished first of his class at the armored cavalry officer academy of Saumur, the military wanted to de-rank him because they did not wish a "Communist" to become an officer. However, Chirac's extensive family acquaintances had him ranked back at the correct position.

After completing officer's school, Jacques Chirac volunteered to be deployed in Algeria (while the Algerian War of Independence was raging), even though his family relations would easily have allowed him to obtain a safe position away from the war. He was wounded during his tour of duty.


Gerhard Schröder joined the Social Democratic Party in 1963. In 1978 he became the federal chairman of the Young Socialists, the youth organisation of the SPD.

"Young Socialists" is also the name of the youth organization of the Socialist Workers Party in the U.S. and theCommunist Leagues in a number of other countries, informally known as the Pathfinder Tendency.


In the spirit of cultural oppression such as in Tibet, the spirit of Mao Zedong lives on. The very thing that French and German citzens despise & accuse the United States of America for doing, yet they allow their own leaders to encourage such acts against the people of Taiwan. Does the hypocrisy of Europeans never end?


--------------------
Some History on Mao Zedong:
1. Ruined the Buddhist culture in Tibet
-----------------------


In the Chinese Spirit of Oppression, here is the youngest prisoner:


Gedhun Choekyi Nyima, taken as a political prisoner because the Dalai Lama proclaimed him as the eleventh reincarnation of the Panchen Lama.


Some News Clippings Relating to Main Topic of this thread:

China's President Hu Jintao told French President Jacques Chirac he hopes Europe's 16-year-old embargo against arms sales to China can be lifted soon, the government said Saturday.

---------------

TOKYO (AFP) - French President Jacques Chirac told a concerned Japan that China's desire for the European Union to lift its arms embargo was "legitimate" and would not entail exports of sensitive weapons and technology.

-----------------------

While visiting Japan, French President Jacques Chirac has defended his push to lift a European Union arms embargo on China, disagreeing with his hosts on an issue that has contributed to diplomatic tensions between Japan and China.

France and Germany are spearheading a campaign to end the E.U.'s 16-year-old ban on arms sales to Beijing by June, a drive that has been complicated by China's recent passage of a law permitting the use of force against Taiwan.
--------------------
My Comment:
Europe opposes the very evil that it creates, its the core of irony and the heart of hypocrisy.



What started the Arms Embargo?
Tiananmen Square protests of 1989!



The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 were a series of student-led pro-democracy demonstrations in the People's Republic of China, which occurred between April 15, 1989 and June 4, 1989. The protests ended in violence when the 27th Army of the People's Republican Army used force to restore order in the capital city.
On May 4, approximately 100,000 students and workers peacefully marched in Beijing demanding democratic reforms and protesting government corruption. On May 20 the government declared martial law. However, the demonstrations continued. After deliberation among Communist party leaders, the government ordered a forceful military resolution. Troops and tanks from China's 27th Army advanced into Tiananmen Square. On June 3 and 4, the People's Liberation Army violently confronted the pro-democracy supporters. Estimates of civilian deaths vary: 400-800 (New York Times & Hammond sources (users.erols.com...)), 2600 (Chinese Red Cross) and the Students maintain that over 7000 were killed.


Obviously China has not learned its lesson, and Europe is willing to forgive knowing that China still is the root of oppression in Asia.

Sincerely,
NSA




[edit on 3-4-2005 by National Security Agency]




posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 10:58 AM
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Is this bandit named Chirac attempting to revive the communist manifesto?



[edit on 3-4-2005 by National Security Agency]



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 11:02 AM
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Wow, this looks well researched and a great article, I've voted you for Way Above.

There's not much that could make me feel worse about these two clowns though, so I don't have much to say.



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Wow, this looks well researched and a great article, I've voted you for Way Above.

There's not much that could make me feel worse about these two clowns though, so I don't have much to say.



Thank you, I take that as a compliment from you because I see you posting here often. You must be a elite member of ATS. Once again, thank you.



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 11:07 AM
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Dude its all about the money....politicians are not friends with each other. China is a gold mine for investments, just ask someone in pentagon. Its either europe or usa that will deal weapons to china, or russia or anyone. You can bet that the arm deals go on even if we dont know about it. These embargos are just for the show and manipulation of public opinion.

sell, Mortimer, sell ! That is capitalism for you, and sometimes even the biggest capitalists loose a deal or two.

As for simpathy, there are no simpathies here, just business as usual.

my 2 cents...



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 11:42 AM
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I agree, well researched article. The europeans are trying the feed of what they think is the lesser evil.



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by National Security Agency
You must be a elite member of ATS. Once again, thank you.


HA!


I'm far from an elite member, but thanks anyway, and thanks again for the post.



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 01:59 PM
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I really don't see how 'Jacques Chirac & Gerhard Schröder, Brothers in Communism!' describes this thread. Jacques Chirac may, at one point have been a communist, he isn't now, otherwise he would be in the communist party. He may have left-leanings but that doesn't make him some sort of closet-communist.
As for Schröder, he was the federal chairman of the "Young Socialists", so what? That happens to be the name of the youth branch of the SDP. What else should they call themselves? They are socialists (and if you know your history you would know that there is/was deep distrust between communists and socialists because of Comintern policy through the '20s/30s) and it is the youth organisation.

To somehow jump from two people that are neither members of the communist party nor follow communist policy, to calling them 'brothers in communism' is a bit far-fetched at best.

As for lifting the trade embargo, I'm not sure, by Chirac's own admission they won't be selling high-tech weaponery to China which would limit them to selling what? guns? tanks? They already have an abundance of them. What do they equip their army with at the moment? sticks? As nukunuku said, its purely about money. Its not like conscience has stopped America helping despotic regimes (a) get into power (b) stay in power (c) get weapons well beyond what any European might be willing to sell to China.

[edit on 3/4/05 by cmdrpaddy]



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by cmdrpaddy
Its not like conscience has stopped America helping despotic regimes (a) get into power (b) stay in power (c) get weapons well beyond what any European might be willing to sell to China.


Apart from the spin you put on everything. Ofcourse, I forget that europe cannot admit anything unjust that it does. It's the worst sort of denial. At least we can admit, yes we've done wrong and continue to do wrong, but thats something europe cannot do.
Europe has never done anything wrong and never will, correct?






[edit on 3-4-2005 by National Security Agency]



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 02:05 PM
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So what if europe wants to go Communist who cares. It's not like like democracy works so well that there are no other alternatives. If this post is so well researched then where are the political ramifications.
I could post heaps of crap about GWBmk2 that makes him look stupid too.



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by JamesBlonde
So what if europe wants to go Communist who cares. It's not like like democracy works so well that there are no other alternatives. If this post is so well researched then where are the political ramifications.
I could post heaps of crap about GWBmk2 that makes him look stupid too.


OBVIOUSLY YOU DIDN'T READ THIS PART:
China's President Hu Jintao told French President Jacques Chirac he hopes Europe's 16-year-old embargo against arms sales to China can be lifted soon, the government said Saturday.

---------------

TOKYO (AFP) - French President Jacques Chirac told a concerned Japan that China's desire for the European Union to lift its arms embargo was "legitimate" and would not entail exports of sensitive weapons and technology.

-----------------------

While visiting Japan, French President Jacques Chirac has defended his push to lift a European Union arms embargo on China, disagreeing with his hosts on an issue that has contributed to diplomatic tensions between Japan and China.

France and Germany are spearheading a campaign to end the E.U.'s 16-year-old ban on arms sales to Beijing by June, a drive that has been complicated by China's recent passage of a law permitting the use of force against Taiwan.
--------------------

If you don't see the connection than that is just one word.....sad



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by cmdrpaddy

so what? That happens to be the name of the youth branch of the SDP. What else should they call themselves? They are socialists (and if you know your history you would know that there is/was deep distrust between communists and socialists because of Comintern policy through the '20s/30s) and it is the youth organisation.


Distrust does not equal abandonment of the principles that ComIntern was founded on. The Comintern also known as the Third International, was an international Communist organization founded in March 1919 by Lenin and the Russian Communist Party (bolshevik), which intended to fight "by all available means, including armed force, for the overthrow of the international bourgeoisie and for the creation of an international Soviet republic as a transition stage to the complete abolition of the State."
Also, Social democracy is a political ideology emerging in the late 19th and early 20th centuries from supporters of Marxism.


Yes, I do know my history. There is intelligence across the pond.



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 03:09 PM
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Gerhard Schröder joined the Social Democratic Party in 1963. In 1978 he became the federal chairman of the Young Socialists, the youth organisation of the SPD.

"Young Socialists" is also the name of the youth organization of the Socialist Workers Party in the U.S. and theCommunist Leagues in a number of other countries, informally known as the Pathfinder Tendency.


can we distinguish between "social" and "socialist" (or what most people think when hearing this no-no word: communist ) ?

first you say, that gerhard schroeder joined the Social _Democratic_ Party, but the youth organisation are "socialists" ? there is a big difference between a "social" party and a "socialist" one, at least like you describe it here. in your logic any "socia..." party stinks like communism, simply nonsense.

the youth organisation of the SPD (schroeders party ) are called JuSo (s),
"Die Jugendorganisation der Sozialdemokratischen Partei Deutschlands (SPD)" , translated : "the youth organisation of the social-democratic party germany". neither the SPD, nor the JuSos are real "socialist/commie" parties . if you had any idea about german politics you would now, that even the "social" aspect of the SPD is more or less a joke. While they are reforming the social-system of germany, which is not very popular here, they are in no, really no way supporting any communist tendicies here.

if they have a reason for selling arms to china, it's not to support their commie-brothers, but to make money and nothing else. china is market and a big one too. if this is right or wrong, is a different story, but putting them all together in the "commie-line" is not quite right.

before you tell us here that they are all communist brothers, you should do some real research, from all sides...



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by National Security Agency
OBVIOUSLY YOU DIDN'T READ THIS PART:
China's President Hu Jintao told French President Jacques Chirac he hopes Europe's 16-year-old embargo against arms sales to China can be lifted soon, the government said Saturday.

---------------

TOKYO (AFP) - French President Jacques Chirac told a concerned Japan that China's desire for the European Union to lift its arms embargo was "legitimate" and would not entail exports of sensitive weapons and technology.



Ok so Europe wants to make money out of selling weapons to the Chinese. So what. Doesn't America do the same thing? There are probably a lot of Nicaraguan guys running around with M-16's. Half of the worlds airforces fly the F-16. What is your point. Are you just peeved because the Europens are smart enough to realise he potential of the Chinese marketplace and will make lots of cash without having to bomb third world countries?



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 04:54 PM
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Europe wants a multi polar world. Therefore they support regions that we think of a future poles.

In the case of China this is bad idea, they still have crap human rights and really dont need more military strength.

But calling Schroder and Chirac 'brothers in communism' is a really dumb statement. Its a bit like calling Eisenhower 'a brother of facism' because of his support (and arming) of S. Korea in the Korean war when the South was a fascist dictatorship.

They both want whats best for their faltering economies, weapones = money so they'll do what they feel they must.



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by Uncle Joe
Europe wants a multi polar world. Therefore they support regions that we think of a future poles.

In the case of China this is bad idea, they still have crap human rights and really dont need more military strength.

But calling Schroder and Chirac 'brothers in communism' is a really dumb statement. Its a bit like calling Eisenhower 'a brother of facism' because of his support (and arming) of S. Korea in the Korean war when the South was a fascist dictatorship.

They both want whats best for their faltering economies, weapones = money so they'll do what they feel they must.


Good points, articulately expressed


You're ok uncle joe.

I would like to believe that Chinese will shape up their act as their international profile grows larger. I also support the European desire for a multi-polar world. We need alternatives and diversity to progress. No super-power has been perfect to date and the presence of another only serves to keep the balance and make the others more accountable for their actions.
A multi polar world also gives us the means of overthrowing any superpower that chooses to abuse it's status IMO.



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by Hannah


before you tell us here that they are all communist brothers, you should do some real research, from all sides...



Some "real" research? Is that a suggestion that I have not done "real" research?


Let's look at the reason I would use the statement "Communist Brothers!":

1. Both have an established tendency prior to holding office to lean toward communist ideals and participate in communist related organizations.

--------------------------------------

Gerhard Schröder Connection:
1. Schröder joined the Social Democratic Party in 1963. In 1978 he became the federal chairman of the Young Socialists, the youth organisation of the SPD.
2. The Social Democratic Party and the Communist Party of Germany were forced to merge to form the Socialist Unity Party of Germany (SED). During the fall of Communist rule in 1989, the SPD was re-established as a separate party in East Germany and then merged with its West German counterpart upon reunification.
3. Schröder joined in 1963 in which time the ideals it was founded on were still intact while undergoing transformation. A precarious time to join.
4. Most voters associate Schröder with the Agenda 2010 reform program, which includes cuts in the social security (medical aid, unemployment security, pensions), lowering taxes, and reforming regulations on employment and payment (Hartz I - IV). After the 2002 election, Schröder's SPD party steadily lost support in opinion polls. What started as a third way program in line with Tony Blair and Bill Clinton became to many eyes a harsh knock-down of the German welfare state.
--------------

Jacques Chirac Connection:

Jacques Chirac was initially attracted towards left-wing causes, leading him to sell the Communist newspaper l'Humanité and to sign the Communist-inspired Stockholm Call against nuclear weapons in 1950. These left-wing ties proved later a hindrance to him, for instance in his first visit to the United States and his military career. Indeed, even though he finished first of his class at the armored cavalry officer academy of Saumur, the military wanted to de-rank him because they did not wish a "Communist" to become an officer. However, Chirac's extensive family acquaintances had him ranked back at the correct position.

After completing officer's school, Jacques Chirac volunteered to be deployed in Algeria (while the Algerian War of Independence was raging), even though his family relations would easily have allowed him to obtain a safe position away from the war. He was wounded during his tour of duty.
-----------------


I'm giving a subjective opinion of what I see, so don't take it personally. Jacques Chirac seems to be the one with a definitive example of sympathy. If you call me "stupid" as some have suggested than I say to you, is it "stupid" not to bring it into question? Enjoy.

[edit on 3-4-2005 by National Security Agency]



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by JamesBlonde
No super-power has been perfect to date and the presence of another only serves to keep the balance and make the others more accountable for their actions.
A multi polar world also gives us the means of overthrowing any superpower that chooses to abuse it's status IMO.


Silly child. Once a superpower, never again a subordinate. Every superpower must abuse to keep the status-quo of its society. Unless you want declining employment rates, declining employee benefits, declining standard of living, and then a declining education of the masses, and then a incline for those in power to create a propagandist way to control you for their ambitious hunger.

Dann sollen Sie in einer Gesellschaft der Zustandgeheimhaltung leben, die zum multipolaren enviroment des Umsturzes und Konvertierung führt. Spion gegen den Spion im alltäglichen Leben. Ich lebte es, ich weiß es. Ordern Sie nicht heraus, mir etwas Verschiedenes zu erzählen, ich stütze das auf die berufliche und erste Handerfahrung.

Vielleicht ist der Grund keiner von Ihnen Am A.T.S. versteht die Vorstellungen der Macht und Kriegs nicht, weil Sie die Beklemmung eines Regimes nie gelebt und einen Regimeanstieg bezeugt haben, um zu rasen. Das ist, wo Ihr Fehler in jedem Menschen in der Fähigkeit liegt, naiv zu sein.
Naiv zu sein. Die Führer-Entscheidungen nicht zu verstehen und Sie anzunehmen, tun. Vertrauen Sie mir, ich erzähle Wahrheit, wo es keine Wahrheit gibt und bald alle sehen sollen.

[edit on 3-4-2005 by National Security Agency]



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 09:26 PM
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Why do I feel like there is an ever increaseing number of ANTI-French/german/EU/comunist threads on ATS?
BTW....whats wrong with communism?
(Cant wait for the hounds to give chase)



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Why do I feel like there is an ever increaseing number of ANTI-French/german/EU/comunist threads on ATS?
BTW....whats wrong with communism?
(Cant wait for the hounds to give chase)


You feel that way because you are used to seeing ONLY anti US threads


Make a single thread against a European country and all you Euros get your panties in a bunch.


BTW - there is PLENTY wrong with Communism. See millions of Russians executed under Stalin, tetm - crap, I won't even try to spell it - square in China etc...

Comunism restricts rights, and keeps the people poor. If you don't realize that when when comunism is actually used IN THE REAL WORLD it is bad, you need only look at the difference between east and west Germany from the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's.



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