What's with the pointless war between Israel/Palestine?

In some ways, war is pretty pointless. Nevertheless, as human beings, we have and will continue to fight wars as long as we inhabit this planet. Wars based on religion are even more pointless than wars over other things, but I acknowledge that wars fought to take down aggressor nations who attack you are acceptable. After all, you can't let everyone walk all over you.

Anyway, the Israel/Palestine conflict is out of hand and pointless. Regardless of whose side you're on, the land did not originally belong to the ancient Israelites. Even the Bible (which I'm sure some may use to justify this) says this. Here it is...

7Then the Lord said, "I have seen the affliction of my people who are in Egypt, and have heard their cry because of their taskmasters; I know their sufferings,
8and I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land to a good and broad land, a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites. (Ex. 3:7-8)

Now, this land that the Lord spoke of was where present-day Israel is. Sure, I don't take the Bible literally; that's because I can't separate the historical stuff from the fables. My point is, even this book suggests that Caananites (present-day Palestinians), among others, inhabited this land first.

Now, any bible expert who reads this, refrain from bashing me. I am in no way an expert on the bible. However, I know a little about the ancient people of the region and time period, so that's why I've thrown my 2 cents in the mix.

Ok, explaining time! Israel is created again, week later every Middle East country attacks. Israel kicks the living hell out of all of them, wins land. ME countries cry and say Israel stole the land. Few years later they attack again. In 7 days Israel has again kicked their ass and won more land, and again the ME cry about land Israel stole. Then, they get the idea to create the Palestinians. With this made up race, they say the Jews stole the land from them, and then the made up race attack. Now, unlike before, the made up race is made of civillians, not a uniformed army, so when Israel fights back, they are "evil" for killing "civillians".

How Israel was formed again was after WWII England had land they had bought in the ME. It was the #tiest land in the region, one of the few places with no oil. So they got together with the UN and decided hey, give the jews some land, and they did. Only after this did the Palestinians appear. Before this time they didn't exist. Sure people say they were a nomadic tribe, but then again, they weren't fighting for land when Egypt or Syria or Jordan or England had it, they just magically appeared when Israel was formed.

Nowadays, Palestinians kill women and children, Israel kills terrorist leaders, and the media reports how evil the Jews are.

Hope that explains it somewhat.

When I convince the Un to give me Texas I had better not hear anyone complaining about how I took land from 'Texans' as 'Texans' don't exist.

Originally posted by James the LesserFew years later they attack again. In 7 days Israel has again kicked their ass and won more land, and again the ME cry about land Israel stole.

Israel was the one who attacked in 1967.
This is a well known fact.

www.cactus48.com...

In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.' "Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle."

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Only after this did the Palestinians appear. Before this time they didn't exist.

So uhh... did they just appear out of thin air then?

I mean if they didn't exist before then uh... how do they exist now?

(all sarcasm aside, bias much? sheesh)

As the last remaining Phoenician on this earth, I would like to point out that ALL of the so called countries that inhabited that land in the bible, never existed. If you were originally from Egypt, more than likely you are Egyptian. Those who are not Egyptian are more than likely recent immigrants from Eastern Europe and Russia.

As the last Phoenician, considering the precedent, I own the land. And all those who live on the land currently owe me back rent. I will collect in the next life. Don't worry about the bill, everyone has a tab, and everyone will pay.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.



[edit on 3-4-2005 by IComeWithASword]

You don't undersatand, Palestinians were a ancient people who were nomads, traveling from Africa to Asia. But when England/Egypt owned the land they didn't exist, but the day Israel was fromed again on British owned land, the Palestinians all of a sudden appeared out of thin air claiming land was stolen. It was the greatest magic trick of all time. Today, british land, no Palestinians, next day, Israel, poof, Palestinians appear saying land was stolen.

Anyways, still want to see Israel go to war, as long as they leave Kuwait alone they should be able to own the Middle East.(Kuwait is the Las Vegas of ME, when invaded in the Gulf War they used computers and cell phones((inventions of the Great Satan banned in the rest of ME)) to call for help/warn others of the attack, women can actually get naked to take a shower/bath, and children are more then pieces of meat to be used as bombs)

I think you know that this is false. A region where the origin of three of the largest religions in the world and you say no one lived there during the british rule. Just a question, if you no one lived there under british rule, who exactly did they rule over?

I know, I know, a loaded question, but fire away.

And who are all those poor souls that have lived their entire lives for 50 years in refugee camps on Israels borders? Where'd they come from?
And, the 260 or so villages that the new nation of Israel bulldozed when they were awarded 78 % of the land in '48, which btw was apparently not enough......see: occupied territories.
Those villages were inhabited by who exactly? If not Palestinians.
The thousands who fled amid rumours of Israel having the 'atomic bomb', who were they?
I believe they are a legitimate people, with a legitimate gripe, not just with the west, but with the nations who, after 50 years, still refuse to assimilate them. Nowhere else have refugee camps lasted 50 years.
The solution:
When Israeli and Palestinian schoolchildren are taught from the same textbooks, the same curriculum, there will be peace, and not before.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
You don't undersatand, Palestinians were a ancient people who were nomads, traveling from Africa to Asia. But when England/Egypt owned the land they didn't exist, but the day Israel was fromed again on British owned land, the Palestinians all of a sudden appeared out of thin air claiming land was stolen. It was the greatest magic trick of all time. Today, british land, no Palestinians, next day, Israel, poof, Palestinians appear saying land was stolen.

If they didn't exist who was it protesting the Balfour Declaration and rioting against the British and the Jewish immigrants?

Who were those people in 1922 that called for the creation of a Palestine Arab government?

The Palestine Arab Delegation to the Secretary of State for the Colonies.

HOTEL CECIL,
London, W.C.,
February 21st, 1922.

Sir,

We wish to express our thanks to the Right Honourable the Secretary of State for the Colonies, for his courtesy in allowing us to see the draft of a proposed Palestine Order in Council embodying a scheme of Government for Palestine, and to discuss the same in our capacity of representatives of the Arab People of Palestine.


We would, therefore, submit the following observations:—


Whilst the position in Palestine is, as it stands to-day, with the British Government holding authority by an occupying force, and using that authority to impose upon the people against their wishes a great immigration of alien Jews, many of them of a Bolshevik revolutionary type, no constitution which would fall short of giving the People of Palestine full control of their own affairs could be acceptable.

If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, end the Zionist con-dominium, put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day the People of Palestine assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration.

EDIT:
What's up with this video from 1936 that shows the aftermath of a revolt?
Who would be leading a revolt if there was nobody there until after Israel was created more thn a decade later?

1936-05-20 Aftermath of revolt in Jaffa Palestine, Israel Italian B088802

[edit on 3-4-2005 by AceOfBase]

That was me. I was the only person under british rule. They named the region after me, as in Pal Stein.

James, you're missing the point.

EVERYONE knows that Israel was created last century. My point is that this land they were given was not their own, past or present, given to the by God or the UN. Hell, their own holy book says this land was previously inhabited by others.

Icomewithasword, are you messing around or are you serious? If you really are a Phoenician, I doubt you are the last one. Regardless, these people were so instrumental in world history that it's a shame that they are almost forgotten. Then again, most of the people who do good things in the world don't get credit for it.

The universe is God's and as such the earth. He gave it(the land of known as Israel today) to Abraham, who had Issac who had Jacob who became Israel. Ishmael was born first to Abraham and birthright usually went to the first born son. This was no surprise though because God told them it wouldn't be given to Ishmael. It didn't in this case and Ishmael's descendants are mad.

Jacob's brother twin brother Esau was also born first but sold his birthright to Jacob. Esau's descendants are mad also.

Throw in the fact that Abraham remarried after his first wife died and then more sons were born and were sent away and they are mad.

The Bible hints that the land that is known as Israel is the center of the earth geographically. The land area of Israel is a big deal to God. Some believe that this is also where Eden was and that Jerusalem is where the garden(Garden of Eden) was. Break it down further and some believe where the the Ark of the Covenant stood in the Holy of Holies in the temple is the exact spot where the tree of life was.

That actually makes sense if you are familiar with the Bible.



[edit on 3-4-2005 by dbrandt]

What are all pointless wars fought over? Religion! Take away the cause for war=no war.

To paraphrase Lewis Carrol:

Said Tweedeldee to Tweedledum "you broke my nice new rattle"
Said Tweedeldee to Tweedledum "now we must have a battle"


I guess that explains it. Imagine if all the people who liked Godfather I started killing all the people who liked Godfather II. Same concept really.

yes we can ague who owns the land back well over 2000 years. who is to say these palistinans were the original peoples?

the problem is that as of right now isrial has owned the land for years, they have suceeded in holding said land when attacked. so it is theirs. if we want to say the land rightfully belongs to the palistinans than it would follow logicaly that everyone now has to move out of america since our ancesters invaded it as well. so pack up everyone we gots to go back to europe and give america back to the natives that were here first. guess the eu can hash out who owned what back to before recorded history . so i guess most euopeans will need to move as well oh yea and most brittons can move back to sweeden and other nordic countries. geee what fun. lets be "fair" and give all land back to the owners who got their butts kicked centuries ago. yes we must give all land back to the "original" owners.

get real that would be rather futile wouldn't it. we can not be held responsible for past acts. we have in fairly recent history decided to "solidify" the borders where they are. this can not realisticaly be applied retroactively. would you be willing to pay the israilies off for their losses and give them a new piece of dirt for their country? that is not realistic who would loose the land? how bout the us? brazil? canada? russia? the baltic states? how bought we just give them the artic or antartic there aren't many people there so that would be a couple of nice places isrial could go and have their country. i mean they are just deserts like where they are now right? be realistic we can't fix this problem without causeing the same harm somewhere else that is hospitible to live. oh how bout we give them all those hectors of unused rainforrests? they could chop it all down and build cities there couldn't they? that wouldn't bother anyone would it?

there is no good solution since the israilies currantly occupy isrial, why can't the palistinians (whom most would not have actualy lived in isrial if they ever realy did), some of the unused areas arround isrial. give them help settleing in and getting water ect. and let it be. oh ya because they don't want anything but isrial. you know if push came to shove i would recomend that israilies destroy everything they have done to make the area what it is today and let the palistinans then make it rehabitable by their own sweat. but we would still have to find somewhere for isrial to go.

Originally posted by dbrandt
The universe is God's and as such the earth. He gave it(the land of known as Israel today) to Abraham, who had Issac who had Jacob who became Israel. Ishmael was born first to Abraham and birthright usually went to the first born son. This was no surprise though because God told them it wouldn't be given to Ishmael. It didn't in this case and Ishmael's descendants are mad.

Jacob's brother twin brother Esau was also born first but sold his birthright to Jacob. Esau's descendants are mad also.

Throw in the fact that Abraham remarried after his first wife died and then more sons were born and were sent away and they are mad.

The Bible hints that the land that is known as Israel is the center of the earth geographically. The land area of Israel is a big deal to God. Some believe that this is also where Eden was and that Jerusalem is where the garden(Garden of Eden) was. Break it down further and some believe where the the Ark of the Covenant stood in the Holy of Holies in the temple is the exact spot where the tree of life was.

That actually makes sense if you are familiar with the Bible.



[edit on 3-4-2005 by dbrandt]

What Bible are you reading? The Bible I have has footnotes saying that the Garden of Eden was in southern Iraq. And, what about the verses I quoted saying that the land was ALREADY inhabited when the Jews were in Egypt?

I think the whole thing is stupid, but time and time again I see most people in the world can't help doing stupid things. What a shame.

Originally posted by truthseeka

What Bible are you reading? The Bible I have has footnotes saying that the Garden of Eden was in southern Iraq. And, what about the verses I quoted saying that the land was ALREADY inhabited when the Jews were in Egypt?

As far as Israel being Eden and the garden at Jerusalem I said some believe this. I myself would lean that way for the fact of the show I saw but also before that I was thinking on the subject of where the garden was and it felt like God was impressing it upon my spirit that it was in Israel. On the program I saw where a Bible teacher was desrcibing all the reasons why he felt this way. If I had known that he was going to be talking about that I would have taped it to reveiw and learn all his reasons. So I'm merely passing along info for people to be aware of.

Yes, the land was occupied before they got there. I don't know if they all were but some were giants, so they were of the fallen angel/human interaction.

The argument that there never existed a Palestinian people until Israel was formed is absolute nonsense! How can you audaciously lie like this just to serve your own argument! This kind of disengenuousness is in the same vein as previous Israeli leaders, like Golda Meir, who had the chutzpah to say "How can we return the Occupied Territories? There is nobody to return them to." These kind of arrogant, malevolent, falsehoods only serve to convolute the situation evern more, thereby making peace for both these peoples seem further out of their grasp.

The fact is that the Palestiains were forcibly removed from their land in what is now present day Israel (lets just posit that), so that waves of Jewish immigrants from Europe could inhabit that very land, because they beleive that God gave them that land, therefore the way in which they acquired it was not only vindicated, but fulfilling God's will. This is the same mentality that is the driving force behind the Jewish settlements in the West Bank (and Gaza), or as the Zionists call it, Judea and Samaria. They beleive that God gave them that land, therefore they are justified in usurping it from the Palestianians.

And another thing, the reason why the Palestinians and Arabs didn't wage war against the British who had a mandate over Palestine was because the British didn't kick them over the Green Line like the Israeli's did!

Personally, I do support the existence of a Jewish state, as Jews were persucted and oppressed for thousands of years whilst living under Arab rule, and there has been a continued Jewish presence in Palestine for thousands of years, with some areas having Jewish majorities. But the way in which the modern State of Israel was established and the justification for this by evoking the diety is wrong.

We can only hope, at least, that the Israeli's will rightfully return the Occupied territories to the Palestinian people as some kind of consolation for over half a decade of struggle, and then maybe some justice can be served for the Palestinians. And maybe past ills can be forgiven, so that the Israeli's can still have their state, of which they are entitled to, and live in peace. The only way out of this conflict is a great compromise from both sides, but I like many, being aware of human egoism, am not too optimistic. The only thing we as obervers of this terrible conflict can do is discuss the facts, and not twist the truth to suit one side of the argument, because lies are yet another element to this conflict that is making it all the more insoluable.

A balanced, reasonable post, how refreshing. I still say the solution starts with education.
The solution:
When Israeli and Palestinian schoolchildren are taught from the same textbooks, the same curriculum, there will be peace, and not before.