What will happen when the Dalai Lama dies?

double post

[edit on 03 22 2005 by BlackGuardXIII]

As far as the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama is concerned it usually works something like this. Before a high lama dies he gives some idea about where or under what conditions is his next rebirth will happen. Maybe for example he knows he will be reborn in a certain area or he has a dream about a certain landscape that he can tell his disciples who will then look for that exact picture. For His Holiness, I don't remeber what it was that the 13th Dalai Lama said that helped them find his reincarnation, but it if I remember correctly I think it was something along those lines. then, in Tibet at least there is a holy lake that highly realized people can see things or have visions in. If I remember correctly,one of the monks who was part of the gropu that went to look for His Holiness went there and saw something that helped him know what villages to go to and in those villages what paritcular house to look for. The monk then dressed up as nomad and put the 13th Dalai Lama's mala (or prayer beads...like a Buddhist rosary) around his head and went in off in search of him. When he arrived to a house and finally meet His Holiness he of course didnt yet know if that was him or not. The young boy knew right away that the monk was not a nomad and he called him a lama. In addition, he grabbed the mala around his neck and said in a dialect that he had no way of knowing but which was the dialect of the monk "This is mine". The monk was quit taken back by this and so he decided to give him the full test. The test consists of laying down a group of items (two of each kind of item). One of these items belonged to the Dalai Lama in his previous life and the other one did not. He asked the young boy to pick the items that he remembered and he did it exactly right on each occasion. Except one. One time he picked up the wrong cane. he looked at it intently and before deciding if that was his decision (each time he was suppose to say "this one is mine" or something along those lines) he put it back down picked up the other cane immediately and said that that one was his.

The reason for that as was explained was the first cane he picked up was actually a gift HH gave to someone in his previous life. So that's how they know thta htey know.. there are a number of things that happen that let them know with quite a bit of certainity that whomever is the actual Dalai Lama. there are also a number of other things that happen where it was quite apparent that this was indeed the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama. One of the most notable instances is when His Holiness was first brought to the Potala (where the Dalai Lama lived in Tibet) he walked immediately into his own room and told his those who were with him that his old teeth were in a drawer. They asked what he was talking about and he repeated that he remembered putting his teeth in a certain drawer. he went over to the drawer, opened it up, pulled out a box, opened it, took out something wrapped in a cloth, unwrapped it, and there inside were an old pair of denchers that belonged to the 13th Dalai Lama.

As far as where the 15th Dalai Lama will be born. Like I said a minute highly realized monks have some control over the matter. Its not that you can be reborn anywhere that youve been to, its that you can control where your rebornso that you can be of the most benefit to the most sentient beings while having great access to the Dharma (the Buddha's teachings). This, on top of being what many Tibetans consider the savior of Tibet is why the Dalai Lama has traditionally only been born within Tibet. even though the 4th Dalai Lama was Mongolian (not sure where he was born, probably also Mongolia). Nowadays, however, other monks are being born all over the world. Especially those who have worked hard at bringing Buddhism to the West. Lama Yeshe (famous for his dedication to help westerners understand Buddhism) for example was reborn in Spain. His reincarnation lives in a monastery in Nepal where he recieves his Buddhist education. So His Holiness will be able to be reborn in an area that he wants so as to be the most help to the Tibetan people who need him so desperately. He has already stated that he will not be reborn in Tibet if the Chinese are still ruling over it in the atrocious way that they are presently doing. There will also be signs and indicaitons of where he is and how to find him just as there has always been.

I was also going to say what I know about the situation with the Panchen Lama but Ill save that for another post as this one is already too long. Hope this information is useful. Im a Buddhist who tries to learn about as much of these things as I can but don't quote me on any of this as its mostly from my memory of what I've read or been told by Tibetan monks. But if you do want a general picture of what its all about there is a great movie by Martin Scorcesi (sp?) called Kundun that is the story of the Dalai Lama's life. Scorcesi did a great job and employed a whole staff of Tibetans to help him. I watched it with a Tibetan monk who the whole time was saying "oh i know that guy" as he pointed to one of the monks in the movie. and according to that monk, the movie was really well done and very accurate so thats an easy pain free way of learning and being entertianed
take care.

Originally posted by Agent Orange
The Dalai Lama left a poor impression on me when he beagn hanging around with celebrities, like Richard Gere. I say that as a (non practising) convert to Tibetean Buddhism. My dharma name is Jang-chub Ozer.

Just thought I'd say His Holiness isn't known for discriminating against people and judging them based on whatever thing we may think is unaccpetable. As many who have spent alot of time around him have seen He shows the same sense of caring for someone thta is a King, President or important political dignitary as he does a begger, janitor or whatever else. I think the fact that he does NOT sit around and say "ok yeah your spiritual you can come and chat with me caus eyour worthy" but instead allows any and all who want to approach him to be able to and to feel at ease about doing it is what makes not only his message so strong but ensures that his message has some validity to it because he lives that sense of pure compassion for all things without discriminating.
Just some thoughts

As far as the sitaution with the Panchen Lama is concerned. The Chinese kidnapped this boy and his family when he was young and supposidly they are living some place in China proper under house arrest. This makes this young boy the youngest political prisioner in the world. Once after lots of pressure from governments and the UNHCR the Chinese government showed a picture of the boy to a group of officials from some international organizaiton (probalby UNHCR)... anyway they Not only didnt let htem take the picture with them they would not even let them HOLD it!
outraged yet?
sign a petition. take the only action we can do for these people and tell our government and the UN to put further pressure on China to at least let the Red Cross in to make sure this boy is healthy and fit.
As a lawyer of international law I can tell you that petitions to govenrmetns work! and they work well.
You can send an already written email to the UN by going to this website.
www.tibet.ca...

These people's fight is completley based on nonviolence so they are dependent on these means of fighting for their cause. If everyone does their part it can work.

[edit on 4-4-2005 by MattSch]

[edit on 4-4-2005 by MattSch]

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII

Originally posted by supercheetah

Originally posted by Agent Orange
The Dalai Lama left a poor impression on me when he beagn hanging around with celebrities, like Richard Gere. I say that as a (non practising) convert to Tibetean Buddhism. My dharma name is Jang-chub Ozer.

Do you think he has any understanding of Gere's status? Or the status of other celebrities, for that matter? For all he knows, they're just famous people. He may not know why they're famous. I doubt he has a TV.

I would say that Richard Gere was hanging around him. Was Jesus hanging around Paul? It is usually the case that the aspiring student is the one who is considered to be hanging around the teacher, imho.

Jesus usually avioded the high and mighty. Christainity is a religion of slaves. To give the Dalai Lama full credit, he seems to have distanced himself from the celebrity set lately. Hollywood is no place for a holy man. Gere get's credit to for having stepped back from the glare of the limelight.

Jesus usually avioded the high and mighty. Christainity is a religion of slaves. To give the Dalai Lama full credit, he seems to have distanced himself from the celebrity set lately. Hollywood is no place for a holy man. Gere get's credit to for having stepped back from the glare of the limelight.

Respectfully, I think your still missing the point. Do you think if a high and mighty in Jesus's time would have humbled himself and came to Jesus asking for teachings that he would not have given them to him? Think about when Jesus was a child and went to the Temple where his mother found him conversing with the Rabbis. These Rabbis were highly respected and honored back in those days, yet Jesus spoke to them. Its not how we as a society think of someone that is important. Its the respect and humiliation they show towards a great teacher that is key. Richard Gere, for all his corkiness, isn't some horrible guy and in fact he like alot of actors have tried to use their fame to help certain causes he believes in. Its like my friend who works and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees told me about wht she thought about Angelina Joe Lee being given that ambassador position with UNHCR. She said you know at first I thought she was just kinda wacky but now i seeing thta she's doing alot of good work.
Why are you judging Gere so much? He's just a human being.
Besides if you know the story of how Gere got involved with the Tibetans it was brought about entirely from his own initiative. So the Dalai Lama didnt seek out celebrity attention nor do I think he has "distanced himself" from it.
If you only knew the immense responsibilyt that is put on him and the amazing work he has done for the betterment of teh Tibetan people I think you would give him alot more respect. But thats me. Not to mention his complete devotion to developing qualities of compassion and respect for everyone, including the very people are killing his countrymen.

When the Dalai Lama dies, he will no longer be living.

Originally posted by MattSch


Jesus usually avioded the high and mighty. Christainity is a religion of slaves. To give the Dalai Lama full credit, he seems to have distanced himself from the celebrity set lately. Hollywood is no place for a holy man. Gere get's credit to for having stepped back from the glare of the limelight.

Respectfully, I think your still missing the point. Do you think if a high and mighty in Jesus's time would have humbled himself and came to Jesus asking for teachings that he would not have given them to him? Think about when Jesus was a child and went to the Temple where his mother found him conversing with the Rabbis. These Rabbis were highly respected and honored back in those days, yet Jesus spoke to them. Its not how we as a society think of someone that is important. Its the respect and humiliation they show towards a great teacher that is key. Richard Gere, for all his corkiness, isn't some horrible guy and in fact he like alot of actors have tried to use their fame to help certain causes he believes in. Its like my friend who works and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees told me about wht she thought about Angelina Joe Lee being given that ambassador position with UNHCR. She said you know at first I thought she was just kinda wacky but now i seeing thta she's doing alot of good work.
Why are you judging Gere so much? He's just a human being.
Besides if you know the story of how Gere got involved with the Tibetans it was brought about entirely from his own initiative. So the Dalai Lama didnt seek out celebrity attention nor do I think he has "distanced himself" from it.
If you only knew the immense responsibilyt that is put on him and the amazing work he has done for the betterment of teh Tibetan people I think you would give him alot more respect. But thats me. Not to mention his complete devotion to developing qualities of compassion and respect for everyone, including the very people are killing his countrymen.

"The Son of Man came to seek the lost", and Jesus came, specifically, for the least of his breathern. "It is harder for a rich man to enter Heaven, than for a camel to go throught the eye of a needle".

Part of the beauty of the Bible is that it is ironic, and counter intuitive. It stands the world on it's head. "The 1st shall be last". If you want to make a differene in the world you have to go out and court the rich and powerful. Start with movie stars, maybe they can introduce you to some politicians.

Christianity has survived and flourished in the world by seeking out slaves. Not by organizing them into political resistance, but by teaching acceptance and humility. It seems to have worked. The cross, a symbol of utter defeat, is it's foremost symbol.

Let me say however, how much I respect the Dalai Lama as a man. He seems wise and moderate. He himself as said that you must find salvation in your own tradition, instead of hopping around from one to another. inthis he's quite right. Didn't the Buddha say "work out you salavation with greater diligence", as Saint Paul said "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"? Saint Paul's "Radix maloreum est cupiditas" (Desire is the root of evil), is similar to the Buddha's "Desire is the cause of suffering". Saint Paul would've made a fine Buddhist!

[edit on 6-4-2005 by Agent Orange]

Paul would have made a fine Buddhist?
But then the RCC should make a fine Buddhist faith. And by extension, all subsequent Christian sects should make fine Buddhist faiths too. Paul seems to be the one person who is singly most responsible for the founding of the Christian church, so if he is a good example of Buddhist principles, then I would hope that the Christian church and Buddhism may join and become one. Does anyone think that will ever happen? I have strong doubts. I find that the western version of Christianity, of almost all types, is too ostentatious and showy to be considered spiritually akin to Buddhism. Too many televangelists in $1000 suits, and churchgoers decked out in diamonds and gold, driving status symbol cars to church. The Dalai Lama's simple robe, and Mother Teresa's blue and white sari are similarly unpretentious, so maybe they can be the examples of a way to find a bridge. Then, if we can bring Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. onboard, we might really be getting somewhere.