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Anti radar missels

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posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 09:50 AM
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I think everybody heared about the harm and such but what counter measures are there for the radars themselves to defend themselves from these missels?




posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 09:57 AM
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Shut down the radar and prey...



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 10:04 AM
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IIRC the HARM missiles can "remember" the position of the radar it detected so even if they turn it off, the HARM will have a chance of hitting it. That's of course if the target does not move away.

[edit on 2-4-2005 by Taishyou]



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 10:47 AM
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Electronic Jamming Signals perhaps sent out form the radar station to disrupt the missiles software. If they don't have that then the RADAR is done.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by Taishyou
IIRC the HARM missiles can "remember" the position of the radar it detected so even if they turn it off, the HARM will have a chance of hitting it. That's of course if the target does not move away.


That's the reason why I added "prey".
.
I heard Serbians have been using some stripped off microwave ovens to simulate radar radioation during Kosovo war. Cheap to make and good thinking ,but I don't know if they were sucessfull...



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 01:03 PM
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Hmm, as I believe you can pre program the software on the missle to only look/track certain kinds of radar signals, certain frequencies etc
Helps to narrow down what your looking for



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by longbow
Shut down the radar and prey...


This may prove useful in understanding the AGM-88E Advanced Anti- Radiation Guided Missile (AARGM).
improved mobile 36D6 radar systems in Iran



seekerof



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Electronic Jamming Signals perhaps sent out form the radar station to disrupt the missiles software. If they don't have that then the RADAR is done.


Correct, but when HARM is accompanied by Wild Weasel, its kinda hard to jam when being jammed, isn't it?





seekerof



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Electronic Jamming Signals perhaps sent out form the radar station to disrupt the missiles software. If they don't have that then the RADAR is done.


Correct, but when HARM is accompanied by Wild Weasel, its kinda hard to jam when being jammed, isn't it?





seekerof


not really - eccm would work as would jamming on different frequencies - remember when you actively jam a radar all your really doing is creating `white noise` over a larger area.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 03:10 PM
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Harlequin...
Name a/an anti-air-missile system that can override or out jam a Wild Weasel.






seekerof



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 06:46 AM
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it doesn`t need to `out jam` a weasel - both sides have anti radar and anti jamming weapons ; the situation would be , the weasel mission comes in lights up its own escort jammer , the radar sees this and light up its own jammers - so both sides are now jamming - and a ground base jammer , by design is more powerful than an air mobile one - it can be MUCH bigger for a start.

the weasel mission shoots off 2 missiles - one for the radar and one for the jamming - the ground base shoots off a radar guided and a heat seeker.



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 06:55 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Harlequin...
Name a/an anti-air-missile system that can override or out jam a Wild Weasel.


seekerof


Thats easy, a Mig 29 or a Su27
Hell I have even heard of some soviets using the jammer systems off the Tu 22 bombers! to counter the threat of F4 wild weasels! lol

- Phil



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 08:21 AM
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The 'Wild Weasel' type of mission was originally flown, with often great heroism, in the Viet Nam war. Basically, the mission was flown like this:

Aircraft would be sent on missions to look for Sam 2 sites. They would fly at medium to low-high height. Obviously, they were acting as decoys and their job was to light up Sam 2 radars. (I read one report where it mentioned A4 Skyhawks as decoys - but am not too sure)

Coming in 100 yards or maybe 3 or 4 seconds behind them at medium to low-low height, were the 'Weasels', usually F4 Phantoms or Thuds (Thunderchiefs) flying about 1/2 a mile apart and operating in pairs.

As the decoys were illuminated by the Sam 2 radar vehicle, the leading pair of 'Weasels' would pop-up and 'paint' the corresponding target for the other pair of 'Weasels' who would then commence their bombing run.

You have to remember that this was the Viet Nam War and missile technology was not as advanced as it is today.

As some other poster has said, it is easy to switch off rader in order to confuse anti radar missiles. But in Viet Nam, this did not work because the 'Weasels' worked in such close harmony that even if a willy old NVA/Russian/Chinese adviser managed to switch off, it was too late because the wingman had usually spotted the tell-tale 'star' formation the NVA so slaveishly used!

With regards to counter and counter-counter measures, the only way to jam a jammer, is to up the power and 'burn' through the jamming. This requires a tremendous amount of power but it can be done by a single aircraft - 'if the frequency at which the enemy jamming pod is operating, is known'.

It is fairly simple - scan the modulating frequencies used by an enemy then simply pick the most obvious (previous useage is often a dead giveaway) and 'burn' through the jamming frequency by using a single 'burst' of high energy aimed at a specific frequency.

I hope I have explained it in plain english because it is the same method used to disrupt an enemy who is jamming your radio frequencies and cutting comms.

With regard to HARM, as far as I know, there are no effective counter measures which will disrupt this most excellant of anti-radar missiles. Switching off does nothing to deter the HARM because once located, it is the 'type' of mount used and not the radar itself that is 'remembered' so that, even if the mount - say a tracked vehicle moved, the HARM would still destroy it.

Even frequency modulating radars can destroyed by HARM so really, there are no effective counter measures.



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 04:46 AM
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I always liked the way the ALARM missile deals with a radar shutdown. It goes upto 10,000 ft and deplys a parachute and genty foats down to earth watching. If they relight the radar it detaches the parachute and goes for the kill.



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by fritz

With regard to HARM, as far as I know, there are no effective counter measures which will disrupt this most excellant of anti-radar missiles. Switching off does nothing to deter the HARM because once located, it is the 'type' of mount used and not the radar itself that is 'remembered' so that, even if the mount - say a tracked vehicle moved, the HARM would still destroy it.


The HARM uses passive guidance and only tracks the point of the radar source. So I fail to see how a HARM can hit a radar that isn't emitting and has moved since it was picked up.
Unless you're implying that the HARM hgas some sort of active guidance ( such as Millimetric Wave Radar ) which it doesn't.



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 10:36 AM
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It's a shame the US didn't bring the AGM-136 TACIT RAINBOW anti radar cruise missile into service, it seemed to be the perfect AR weapon being able to orbit around a shutdown radar unitl it lit up then ....well you know.



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 02:25 PM
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Well i dont it got cancelled cause of expenses?



posted on Apr, 4 2005 @ 04:01 PM
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I think the HARM has some sort of system that once it has picked up a radar site even if they turn it off it will remember where it was and still fly in that same path on or off. Now if they move it or if its mobile radar site then the HARM will just hit where it was, I think.



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