Enough Already!

Originally posted by kinglizard
Let’s not have this thread degrade into the very thing we wish to prevent. Please let’s stick to the topic and come-up with ideas and suggestions on how we can limit and discourage “flame” posts.

It's never gonna happen. Nail up flame posts next to death and taxes.

Originally posted by Jakko
www.abovetopsecret.com...

If your personal opinion is that provoking and so drenched with stupidity you might as well keep it personal next time.

Did you look up his name? Can you dispute the information provided? No you can not......that is why you attack my opinion.

This is twice you have called names. But you see I am not that easily offended so I am not going to cry to the mods. You have a right to think I am stupid, and say it. No big deal see

Originally posted by 1wintermute1
I am new here and it just seems to me as if people get easily offended.

1wintermute1, spot on!

I admit I sometimes get a bit carried away myself and write something I regret later, but as long as you have reasonable people on both sides of a discussion they can usually either agree or agree to disagree.

Problem isn't only people trolling the board directly. I think it's as much of a cause for problems when people can't see things from more than one (their own) perspective. They argue their points as long as you keep your arguments simple, but if you really take the time to sit down and explain yourself, you receive silence. This could make it tempting to provoke a response by exaggeration and "bad" language.

I got wound up early in this thread, and my sharp remarks got plenty response. As soon as I made my self calm down, and asked a couple of pointed questions... silence.

I believe the best way to keep the boards civil is to ignore the posts that ____s us off, and to make an extra effort to reply to the decently written ones that we disagree with.


(EDIT: Clarification as to witch of 1wintermute1s posts I was referring to. I was not aware he was the originator of the rot in hell comment. I feel it's his right to say so if he means it, but it doesn't contribute constructively to the discussion...)

[edit on 2/4/05 by gekko]

Truly and honestly, could you tell me why, in a thread named "why are people mourning the pope" you feel the need share your personal studidity and lack of respect with us like that?
I really wonder what the hell is wrong with people like you...

Do you just enjoy distorting a thread, does it entertain you to piss as many poeple off as you can?
It's people like you that make ATS worse than it could be. It's people like you that should be banned no questions asked.

This post above was made by Jakko on BTS. He rants and raves about trolls, but it's clear who the troll is. The post above was 'crafted' to 'dispute' facts about the pope's business dealings with the Nazis, in a thread specifically asking why people were mourning this man.

We don't mourn when child murderers are put to death, so why are we mourning a man who contributed to the spread of AIDS, and assisted the Nazis? It's a valid question, but Jakko thinks responsibility and accountability only work one way.

He advocates banning members for pointing out the truth in a situation, instead of being governed by fear of death and the false 'piety' that springs from that fear.

Take your own advice. That goes for everyone in this thread, and in the world.

Originally posted by 1wintermute1
Did you look up his name? Can you dispute the information provided? No you can not......that is why you attack my opinion.

Do you truly not understand anything?
This is not about wether or not your enticing, assuming "facts" are true, this is about the completely unrespectfull and rude way you "give your opinion" and screw up the topic while you're at it.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
The post above was 'crafted' to 'dispute' facts about the pope's business dealings with the Nazis, in a thread specifically asking why people were mourning this man.

Did you even read what I replied to?
It had nothing to do with nazis, it had to do with the pope having worked at the company that also created Zyklon B.

We don't mourn when child murderers are put to death, so why are we mourning a man who contributed to the spread of AIDS, and assisted the Nazis? It's a valid question, but Jakko thinks responsibility and accountability only work one way.

Hmmm I don't think you get it.
My post was about the way that dude ends his post, hoping that the pope will rott in hell. I do not have anything with the pope, neither am I going to defend him for anything he did or didn't do.
What does bother me is that someone can say "oh I hope blabla will rott in hell" in any and every thread, knowing that that kind of comments are provoking , unrespectfull and rude.

You can give your opinion, but is it needed to do it in the rudest way possible? For some it is...

He advocates banning members for pointing out the truth in a situation, instead of being governed by fear of death and the false 'piety' that springs from that fear.

Pointing out the truth???
Dude you are hilarious, read the thread again I'd say.

[edit on 2-4-2005 by Jakko]

Respect works both ways dude.

The pope doesn't respect people who don't listen to his commands.

Those same people don't respect the pope, both for making the demands and for showing his willingness to damn those who don't follow them.

A greater man than the pope once said (on his death bed), when asked by his disciples how they should behave - "I don't remember ever having told one of you to do anything without having previously made a resolution not to be angry if he didn't do what I said. That's why we have lived the whole of our lives in peace."

That man was Abbas Romanos, and you would do well to follow his advice.

Have you stopped to think that perhaps words are not the enemy? If we say something you don't like, forgive us.

Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by 1wintermute1
Did you look up his name? Can you dispute the information provided? No you can not......that is why you attack my opinion.

Do you truly not understand anything?
This is not about wether or not your enticing, assuming "facts" are true, this is about the completely unrespectfull and rude way you "give your opinion" and screw up the topic while you're at it.

Wait a minute...hold on one sec. Though I don't share wintermute's sentiments, and though I must give that his production on his opinion could qualify as rude, "disrespectful" is only a subjective measure.

What's disrespectful for me may, in fact, give you a great big belly laugh.

You are assuming that ALL people should speak of a religious leader as if they have some respect for his position. You are wrong. They are not required to hold respect for his position, or him as a person.

I understand the grievances voiced in this thread, and I, too, have noticed the increased negativity and how it has become a lot harder to have a discussion...BUT, I have also noticed that there are people all around us pulling it off, and I can't help but notice that the way they do it is to ignore the posts they feel are offensive.

Jakko, I'm sorry, but you calling wintermute stupid is far more offensive on a majority ruling than him speaking his disdain for the pope.

Let us always remember - if we don't like it here - we can go away. We don't need to infect the board with our personal negative opinions. Do I wish everybody could be accepting of everybody else's religion, sexual orientation, and racial opinions? Yes.

It's not going to happen.



[edit on 4-2-2005 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Jakko
Do you truly not understand anything?
This is not about wether or not your enticing, assuming "facts" are true, this is about the completely unrespectfull and rude way you "give your opinion" and screw up the topic while you're at it.

As someone previously mentioned that was not screwing up the topic THAT WAS THE TOPIC. I have no pity for someone who in the middle of a pandemic told people to not protect themselves, I have no pity for an orginization that has harbored pederast', and I certainly have no pity for the same orginaization that has ADMITTED to aiding the escape of NAZI"S , whos ailing leader also worked for.

"Enticing, assuming facts" You say ? They are facts! Take time out to not be soo offended and go look them up for yourself..........somewhere I once read...

"The truth shall set you free.......but first it will piss you off!"

Originally posted by Valhall

You are assuming that ALL people should speak of a religious leader as if they have some respect for his position. You are wrong. They are not required to hold respect for his position, or him as a person.

Not at all. It is not about respect for the pope, it is about respect for the fellow ATSers that you piss off by saying you hope someone will rot in hell.

Jakko, I'm sorry, but you calling wintermute stupid is far more offensive on a majority ruling than him speaking his disdain for the pope.

Disdain?
This is not about disdain, this is about a lot of people being sick that trolls are being allowed to provoke and screw up threads.

Why do you say that I am more offensive than he is?
I just called him names, which is not as bad as saying I hope he will rot in hell right?
It's just an opinion?

For real, opinions can be out of line, or the same opinions can be worded in slightly respectfull ways. (no respect for the pope, but respect for ATSers)
It's not that hard, it doesn't take that much effort.

Your reply was about timing. Timing is irrelevant. People come and go, but our desire to KNOW is eternal. I won't stop speaking because this man or that man has died, and I certainly don't expect anybody else to do so.

www.fantompowa.net...

www.cjnews.com...

www.remnantofgod.org...

www.kanaan.org...

By your analogy, it would be disrespectful to point out that someone had a flaming bag of poop on top of their head.

It's not disrespectful if it isn't meant that way.

I've never had it out for Catholics, or Christians, or Muslims. I have it out for Catholicism (the truth my butt), Christianity, and Islam.

Religion is a parasite, an invention of man being used to enslave. FAITH is the only measure of a man's worth.

BTW Valhall, what did you get those warnings for?! Never once have I seen you engage in 'warnable' behavior. What's the deal, if you don't mind me asking.

[edit on 2-4-2005 by WyrdeOne]

I'm sorry, Jakko, but you're really not making whatever point you're trying to make - not with me you're not.

He voiced his opinion on something - not on you. He made no direct attack on your character - he didn't even attack your opinion. He stated how he disagreed with the veneration of a man.

That's not quite the same as calling some one stupid and telling them their opinion is so worthless they should keep it to themselves.

If the intent of this thread is to cause the abolishment of opinions we find offensive - you can count me standing on the front line of who you'll be against.

Originally posted by kinglizard

Let’s not have this thread degrade into the very thing we wish to prevent. Please let’s stick to the topic and come-up with ideas and suggestions on how we can limit and discourage “flame” posts.

Another thread goes out of the window and detracts from what the original poster was asking.

Even when a member of staff ask's for the thread to get back on track, members to contribute and generally make ATS a better place, people result to insults and start arguing.

Sad times for ATS indeed...

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Your reply was about timing. Timing is irrelevant. People come and go, but our desire to KNOW is eternal. I won't stop speaking because this man or that man has died, and I certainly don't expect anybody else to do so.

www.fantompowa.net...

www.cjnews.com...

www.remnantofgod.org...

www.kanaan.org...

Nice links, but why are you posting them in this thread?
You know, this is exactly what I am talking about...

Do you truly not understand that this thread is not supposed to be about your little crusade against the pope/the vatican/christianity/whatever you don't like???

Thank you wyrdeone and vahlhall.

I would like to point out that I have provided links for him to research to understand where I am coming from but he will not.

www.acts2.com...
.
www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

The facts surrounding the appoinment of John Paul II can not be denied.

As for what this thread was about you are the only one who has baited and repeatedly called names. That was what this was about I though.



[edit on 2-4-2005 by 1wintermute1]

Originally posted by Valhall
He voiced his opinion on something - not on you. He made no direct attack on your character - he didn't even attack your opinion. He stated how he disagreed with the veneration of a man.

Valhall,

He said that he hoped the pope would rot in hell.
How is this an opinion exactly?

I am starting to wonder, do you truly not understand what I am saying about provoking and screwing up threads, or do you not want to get it?

Well, don't thank me, because I agree that you're off topic in this thread.

Just wanted to clarify that. That's a different issue - and with all the anti-Catholic anti-pope threads on this board. I'm betting good money, if you took a second to look - you could find one

Originally posted by Jakko

Valhall,

He said that he hoped the pope would rot in hell.
How is this an opinion exactly?

I am starting to wonder, do you truly not understand what I am saying about provoking and screwing up threads, or do you not want to get it?

I don't want to get it. Just like you don't want to get that his opinion was, he hopes somebody rots in hell.

No - i don't want to get it. There are moderators who try to weed the crap and shut down the trolls. They do a pretty decent job. If your complaint is that you have received a warn because you called some one stupid, or their opinion worthless, you have no complaint....because you were wrong.

That's not the troll's fault - that's you're fault.

[edit on 4-2-2005 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Jakko

Valhall,

He said that he hoped the pope would rot in hell.
How is this an opinion exactly?

I am starting to wonder, do you truly not understand what I am saying about provoking and screwing up threads, or do you not want to get it?

dictionary.reference.com...

This is how it was an opinion, and I even went a step further to back up my opinion with factual information.

I am starting to wonder if you do not understand 1) what opinion means & 2)that you are the only one calling names....

[edit on 2-4-2005 by 1wintermute1]