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Was Christ A Christian?

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posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 01:44 AM
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Have you ever thought about this. Obviously there may be some symantics or word play here, but Christ didn't worship himself. He did say he was the way or the path/road but that was in reference to his word or "the word".

Just something to consider. I wonder what Christ called his faith group at the time.

There are biblical quotes where he asked not to be worshiped. Yet today, he his worshiped. If his goal was to be worshiped, why would he basically tell people not to bow before him or worship him.


There are so many paradoxes in the bible.

[edit on 2-4-2005 by Lord Altmis]




posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 01:59 AM
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Jesus was a Jew, Christians are followers of Jesus. Jews don't believe Jesus was the Christ. He called his faith group Jews, he says that he does not glorify himself because the father will glorify him. He doesn't ever say don't worship me, rather he says pray to me to get into heaven.

[edit on 2-4-2005 by Ryanp5555]



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 03:29 AM
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Does he really say to pray to him? In those words exactly? I can't find any such quote. He does (supposedly) say that he is the way to God, but that does not necessarily mean that he is to be worshipped. I always took it as "Follow his example" or "do what I say". It would be a rather ugly stain on the "perfection" of Jesus to say that he was egotistical enough to wish people to pray to him or worship him. One should worship God as a whole, not parts individually.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 03:52 AM
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He was a Rabbi in the Nazorean sect of Judaism. Jesus the Nazorean.
He was Jewish, and the new religion that grew afterwards was started by his followers, Paul in particular. I have always felt the faith would more aptly be called Paulianity, or Paulism.
If Jesus had renounced his Jewish faith, then maybe one could argue that he was starting a new church. He did not, and thus, imho, he was just promoting his view of what it meant to be a Jew, and in a broader sense, what it meant to be human.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 03:52 AM
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"Christ" was a Jew and a jewish Rabbi.
He was declared to be a "God" of the Roman Pantheon by Emperor Con-
stantinus (the Great) in the 4th century.
Flanders



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 03:54 AM
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There was a book I was thinking of buying while I was at Barns And Noble today. It was about how Paul was really the one to truly create Christianity as a separate entity from Judism. I forget the title but it was on their "new in religion" rack.

The point is though, there was no such thing as a Christian until after Christ died. A big, big debate among the apostles was weather a person had to first be Jewish to be a Christian. In fact the finalities of the first thing that we would recognize as Christianity today were not worked out until about the year 400.

Christianity actually started out as a cult and was fighting with the cults of Mythris, Isis and Dyonisus for converts for the first couple hundred years or so. It was not until the adoption of Christianity by the Emperor of Rome that it found widespread acceptance and was fully legalized within the Roman Empire.

Personally, I find it a positive that Jesus was not a Christian, it has allowed great diversity in the scope of the religions and it gives me a nice snappy comeback to fundamentalist evangelicals when they tell me I'm going to hell for not being a Christian.


~Astral



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 04:56 AM
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jesus might have started syudying judaism but at the last supper he did nothing less than "convert" to "islam"-he "fell on his face" and prayed proclaiming "not my will lord but yours"-had you been able to meet jesus he would have greeted you by saying "asalam alaikum" or "peace be with you"-- upon which it was customary to respond "alaikum asalam" or "and also with you"

- A Muslim is one who has submitted to the will of Allaah. Islaam means submission (to the will of Allaah), while it also means Peace. Thus, by declaring his submission to the will of Allaah, Jesus declared himself to be a Muslim.--

-In John 16: 12 & 13, Jesus says:
“I have yet many things to say unto you,
but you cannot bear them now.
Howbeit when he, the spirit of truth, is come,
he will guide you into all truth; ”

MUHAMMAD’S ARRIVAL FORETOLD BY JESUS.

Prophet Jesus (pbuh), during the last days of his stay on the earth, makes a prophecy about the arrival of another prophet after him. This simple-looking prophecy of the new testament John 16:12 and 16:13, just stops short of mentioning Prophet Muhammad by name, but identifies him with as many as six titles that denote him, two of them being excluseive titles nobody else could be conferred with in the whole history of mankind, i.e., the title of "The Last Prophet" and " The Unlettered Prophet ".

Let us have a look at verse 12 &13 of John 16 to know how Jesus(pbuh) prophesies about Muhammad (pbuh).

“ 12. I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now.

13. Howbeit when he, the spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. ”

Now let us analyse the fine points of these verses:

1. A GUIDE :

Jesus (pbuh) says, " He will guide you.... ". That means he will be a guide, (Al-Haadi in Arabic). Thus the arrival of Muhammad (pbuh) is foretold by mentioning one of his attributes: a guide.

Allaah tells Muhammad (pbuh) in Qur’aan: 13:7 : “You are a warner, and for every folk a guide.” Allaah says Muhammad is a guide for every folk. And that does not exclude any folk, not even the Jews and Christians, the earlier recipients of Allaah’s messengers and book. And Jesus does not deny. He tells his target audience - the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and his followers, the Christians: “he will guide YOU into all truth.”
* He does not say: “he will guide a people called Muslims”
* or that “he will guide folks other than you”;
* but he said “he will guide YOU.” implying that he will be their guide.

Therefore, it is binding upon the Christians that they accept the guidance of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), acting upon the word of Jesus (pbuh) and also heeding the warning given by the Almighty in Deuteronomy 18: 18 & 19, which we shall discuss later.

2. THE PROPHET. 3. THE LAST PROPHET.

In the verses 12 and 13 of John 16, Jesus (pbuh) says:

“ I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth.”

The statement of Jesus (pbuh) carries an implication that his mission is incomplete: “ I have yet many things to say unto you...” .

And who will say the many things that he has to say?

Normally, Jesus (pbuh) should have continued his statement like this:
* ' The spirit of truth will say the many things I have to say.' or
* ' The spirit of truth will say the balance things. ' he didn’t say like that.
* Neither he said: ' The spirit of truth will also say many things like me. '

But, rather, he says: ‘ The spirit of truth will guide you into all truth.’ So, what the spirit of truth will guide into is not only what truth Jesus (pbuh) has already said or left unsaid, but will comprise of all truth:
1. those truths said before Jesus (pbuh)
2. those truths said by Jesus (pbuh)
3. those truths left unsaid by Jesus (pbuh).
4. those truths distorted after Jesus (pbuh).

That is the full and true import of the word “ A L L ” .

So, when the spirit of truth comes and he guides you into all truth, what is left for anybody else to guide any more ? Nothing. That means the mission of the promised spirit of truth will not be incomplete like that of Jesus (pbuh), but it will be an accomplished one, calling for no more prophet to guide.

And how do we come to the conclusion that the ‘spirit of truth’ referred in the above verse is a prophet and not ‘holy spirit’ as interpreted by some Christian scholars? Please take a closer look at the last sentence of the verse 13 above. It says :

“ he will shew you things to come.”

And when you rephrase it into a shorter sentence......, it reads:

“ he will prophesy.”

And what do you call someone who prophesies .........? ........... a prophet ! and a prophet who is called the ‘spirit of truth’ is naturally a true prophet. .....and that too a prophet who will tell you all truth, not necessitating another prophet.

That is exactly what Allaah calls Muhammad (pbuh) in Qur’aan, sura 33, verse 40: Khaataman-Nabiyeen... the last of the prophets.
***********************************************
The Bible tells us in Luke 22:43
“ And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.”

This is in appreciation of his act of Submission and as an answer to his prayers. The Bible just says that the angel strengthened him. Surely, he was not lacking in physical strength at that moment but what he needed most desperately was solace and assurance from the Lord that he would be saved from the arrest and wanted the freedom to perform the things he wanted to do as a Muslim.

So, Jesus the Muslim (peace be upon him) had prayed in ARABIC: “Yaa Ilaahi, Yaa Ilaahi, Lima Sabaqtanee ? ”. Does the phrase sound familiar ? Yes, this is what he asked the Lord at that moment. “O my Lord, O my Lord, Why have you advanced me (in my end) ? ”

Since he wished to do important things which a Muslim must do while he is still alive, the threatened end troubles him. So his prayer: “ O my Lord, O my Lord, Why have you ADVANCED ME ? ”

Having not understood what he said, but actually having misunderstood what he said, the writers of the Gospel shifted these words into a situation where it fitted according to their understanding and scheme. The prayer has thus been misunderstood and then quoted out of context.

He did not utter such words at the cross, where he was never taken. They say that Jesus said: "Eli, Eli, Lama Sabachtani? that is to say: My God, My God, why have you forsaken me? "(Matthew 27:46)
The above statement attributed to Jesus is totally wrong, because:
1. God will never forsake His messenger.
2. Jesus, who submits himself to the will of the Lord, will never utter such a
word.
*****************************
was jesus really crucified? or did he venture to mecca while judas was given to the romans in place of jesus?
what else could explain the reason mary magdalene did not recognize him upon their first encounter at the tomb?

********
When Mary Magdalene goes to the grave, she finds that the stone covering the grave of Judas is already removed.
“Mark 16:3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
16:4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.”

Points to be noted in the above verses: 1. The heavy stone was already rolled away by the soldiers of the governor. 2. People perform the pilgrimage rites in Mecca wearing white clothing.

b) Mary Magdalene sees two angels in white sitting. (John 20:12) Just as the Muslims believe that The Almighty will provide two angels for Jesus’ descent from heaven, when he comes again, similarly these two angels have made possible his pilgrimage to Mecca.
c) Luke 24:4 & 24:5
24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:
24:5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down [their] faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?

The two men in shining garments are angels, who refer Jesus as the living, and not as the resurrected.
d) John 20:14: “And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him,” etc.

Points to be noted: She saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus, because she supposed him to be the gardener. She could not recognize Jesus, because of the changed face and deemed him to be the gardener because of the simple cloths worn while performing pilgrimage rites. Moreover, he would have had a shaven head, another rite of the pilgrimage.
*********
First of all, while Jesus was awaiting arrest by the soldiers, what he tells his disciples is that
a) “sleep on now, and take rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the son of man is betrayed into the hands of the sinners.” (Mark 14:41)
b) “the son of man is betrayed to be crucified” (Matthew 26:2)
Jesus never said he will be crucified, but only reveals the intention with which he will be betrayed: “betrayed to be crucified”.

2. Jesus says in Matthew 26:24: “The son of man goes as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born”.

a) About himself, Jesus (pbuh) says: “The son of man goes as it is written of him ” ; goes and not dies.
b) About the betrayer he says: “it had been good for that man if he had not been born”, a nice way of wishing death for the betrayer.

Even after this curse by the messenger of Allaah, is there a way that the betrayer will continue to live ? Thus, in the above verse, it has been determined as to who is destined to go and who is destined to die.

3. The betrayer Judas comes in to identify Jesus, when it is dark, along with a large number of soldiers , carrying lanterns, torches and weapons. The stage is perfect for the change of form of the betrayer and the betrayed, as more confusion follows: From Mark 14:44, Matthew 26:48 and Luke 22:47, which are quoted below, it is proved that Judas drew near unto Jesus to kiss him, so as to identify him.

Mark 14:44 : And he that betrayed him had given them a token, saying, whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he; take him, and lead [him] away safely.

Matt 26:48 Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.

Luke 22:47 : And while he yet spoke, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.

From John 18:3 to 18:6 which is mentioned below, we come to know of another enabling factor:
18:3. Judas, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests, comes inside with lanterns and torches and weapons.
18:4. Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should happen to him, went forth, and said unto them, whom do you seek?
18:5. They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus says unto them, I am [he]. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
18:6. As soon as he had said unto them, I am [he], they went backward, and fell to the ground.

From verse 6 above, we notice one strange thing: as soon as Jesus identifies himself, “I am (he)”, the great crowd that had come in falls to the ground. As Judas stood near Jesus (after kissing him) and as the crowd fell to the ground along with the lanterns they brought, the situation was perfect for the exchange of faces, so that those who came to arrest him do not notice it. Then the soldiers who came to arrest Jesus, take away Judas instead, while Jesus escapes along with his other disciples, who all fled the scene.

Mark 14:50 : And they all forsook him, and fled.

(The readers of Bible normally take it to mean that the disciples forsook Jesus and fled. It is shameful to think that all the disciples of Jesus forsook him at the most crucial hour of his life. Qur’aan testifies that the disciples expressed their belief and loyalty:

“ But when Jesus sensed disbelief from them, he said: Who will be my helpers in the cause of Allaah? The disciples said: We will be Allaah’s helpers. We believe in Allaah, and bear you witness that we have surrendered (unto Him). ” (3:52)

Therefore, it was Judas whom the disciples rightly forsook and all of them fled with Jesus.)

4. Now Judas is caught in an unbelievable situation, which nobody else would have experienced. Even if he tells the truth, nobody will believe it, but only think him to be Jesus trying to escape death. So it is better for him that he endures whatever happens. Some verses from the Bible are quoted below, to show how Judas behaves at the trials at the high priest's place. Whenever you encounter below the name Jesus, in the biblical verses, you have to take it as Judas, so that you may understand what the people on the scene and people in the past 2000 years have failed to comprehend.
John 18:19 to 18:23
18:19 “ The high priest therefore asked Jesus of his disciples, and of his teaching.
18:20 Jesus answered him, I spoke openly to the world; I always taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, where the Jews always meet; and in secret have I said nothing.
18:21 Why ask you me? ask them which heard me, what I have said unto them: behold, they know what I said.
18:22 And when he had thus spoken, one of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his hand (or with a rod), saying, Answer you the high priest so?
18:23 Jesus answered him, If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil: but if well, why smite you me? ”

Thus the betrayer-in-a-dilemma Judas speaks evasively. He cannot preach what Jesus used to preach in the temple and in the synagogue. He neither has the authority nor the ability to repeat what Jesus used to preach. Anyway, he certainly cannot answer them if they question him further in religious matters. Had it really been Jesus, he would not have missed the opportunity to tell the priests of his teachings. But here, Judas evades the issue by saying: “I always spoke openly; I said nothing in secret; Ask them which heard me; They know what I said; If I spoke well, why you smite me.” , etc.
Matthew 26:
26:62 “And the high priest stood up, and said unto him, Answer you nothing? what is it which these witness against you?
26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest said unto him, I adjure you by the living God, that you tell us whether you are the Christ, the Son of God.”

When some false witnesses testify against Jesus (Judas), the high priest begs Judas for an answer. But Judas remains quite. Then what the priest presses Judas to answer is not whether he is guilty or not but “I adjure you by the living God, that you tell us whether you are the Christ”.

So the main question raking their brains is whether this person really is Jesus.

26:64 “Jesus said unto him, You have said: nevertheless I say unto you, Henceforth you shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Judas does not say “I am Jesus”, but lets the priest take as true what he thinks, by saying: “You have said” and then continues “Henceforth you shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power” instead of speaking in the first person “henceforth I shall sit at the right hand of Power.”

Then they condemn him to death by holding him guilty of blasphemy. One more thing you must note now is that in this session, the process of disfiguring Judas’ face has slowly begun.

26:67 Then did they spit in his face and buffet him: and some smote him with the palms of their hands (or rods). This is quoted also in Luke 22:64.

5. Peter, who apparently witnessed what happened at the time of arrest, follows Judas to the priest's hall, so as to see what happens to Judas. The priest's servants come and question Peter three times whether he is a disciple of that person, (deeming Judas to be Jesus), but he, naturally, denies all the three times, as predicted by Jesus. Peter who was very loyal to Jesus and had told Jesus (in Matthew 26:35) “Even if I must die with you, [yet] will I not deny thee.” had to deny the person thrice because he cannot affirm to be the disciple of Judas, whom they deem to be Jesus.

6. Another account of the second session with the priests that took place on the day after the arrest, is given in Luke 22:66 to 68 :
22:66 : And as soon as it was day, the elders of the people and the chief priests and the scribes came together, and led him into their council, saying,
22:67 Are you the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, you will not believe:
22:68 And if I also ask [you], you will not answer me, nor let [me] go.

Again, they want to know if he is Jesus. And he tells them: If I tell you (that I am Judas), you will not believe. And if I ask you (what happened to Jesus), you will not answer me, nor let me go.

7. In the trial that takes place before the governor Pilate, again the dominant question is: Are you the Christ? And most of the time Judas says: YOU say it. (That is YOUR statement, NOT MINE.) On other occasions, he remains silent like a stone. Please refer Luke 23:3, Mark 15:2, Mark 15:5, Matthew 27:11, Matthew 27:12. Matthew 27:14.

8. Jesus is brought for trial before another official Herod:
Luke 23:8 and Luke 23:9 :
23:8 And when Herod saw Jesus, he was exceeding glad: for he was desirous to see him of a long season, because he had heard many things of him; and he hoped to have seen some miracle done by him.
23:9 Then he questioned with him in many words; but he answered him nothing.

Poor Herod, he has been longing to witness some of the miracles that he had heard Jesus performing. But can Judas perform those miracles ? On the other hand, he avoids talking straight to even somebody who is sympathetic and glad to see him, because he is not what Herod deems him to be: he is not Jesus.

9. By talking evasively and at times refusing to talk, Judas somehow managed to avoid being found guilty by the Governor and other officials. But the Jews do not wish to lose face by retreating from the actions already taken to have Jesus killed. Hence, upon their stubborn insistence , he is condemned to be crucified. Before they take him to the cross, more injury is done to him:

Mark 15:19 : And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him.

Matthew 27:30 : And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.

Please note that after first injuring his FACE, now it is the turn of his HEAD to be injured. Judas is killed at the cross and later on buried. John does not add dramatic words to this scene of crucifixion, but quotes what could be reasonable words from the betrayer, while he dies:

1. “ I thirst ! ” (John 19:28)
2. “ It is finished ! ” ... and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. (John 19:30)

(not the “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit ” kind of stuff ! See Luke 23:46).

10. The Bible records that Mary (pbuh), Jesus’ (pbuh) mother, was a witness to the crucifixion.

John 19:25 “Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother.... ”

While the Bible records the reaction of every bystander and passer-by, it fails to mention the reaction of Mary (pbuh) the mother of Jesus, because there was no reaction from her worth mentioning. Since she knew that the person on the cross was not Jesus, she stood by the cross and just watched the punishment meted out to the betrayer of Jesus. Had the person on the cross really been Jesus, she would have reacted hysterically. Because it was she who bore Jesus with difficulty and delivered him with pains. No mother will be a mute spectator to such an event
www.isprin.com...


[edit on 2-4-2005 by Sunofone]



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 07:07 AM
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The real name of Mohammed is Lothar Schmalfuss,heretic cardinal of the
catholic church.
Ref:"Chronice Majorem"-Mat.Paris- (13th century)
Flanders



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 07:12 AM
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Actually the Catholic church made sure that no other prophet was to be believable after the Christ, when they proclaim in the bible,

"Many false prophet will come after me"

Very conveniently and deliberated done, so the Christian religion would forever be the only one.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 07:39 AM
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Absolutely not? He had idea of nor did he want to start any type of religion...he was a Jew remember!?
Christianity was not founded until after his death, hence the name. All of his teachings and parables and lessons were created to try and get Judaism back to the peaceful laws of god....and he wouldn't recognize his teachings if he were here today by the Christian church, and would most likely bee really upset with his "followers"



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 05:10 PM
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From what I've heard and read, the Freemasons believe Christ or Jesus as he's known, was an Arab not a Jew. They even state they know his real name which is one of the secrets as you go up the ranks.

I'm a little skeptical about that. Also, that would indicate a mass religious coverup considering a number of Popes and Religious officials are considered to be Freemasons or affiliated.

Why would they openly declare Christianity in one way, yet reference it secretly another.

On a side note, I'm leaning more toward Jesus was a Jew or practiced Judaism.

Which brings up the question, can anyone be a Jew? I've always associated it more as a race, practicing Judaism. While some say you can be a spiritual Jew.

If that were the case, I guess I could also become a spiritual Asian. If you have to say it in that context constantly, it's clearly a race I think.

Therefore, he was talking about his people exclusively and you can learn from his teaching but you can't join. Hence, you are now a Christian (Spiritual Jew).

What do you think.

[edit on 2-4-2005 by Lord Altmis]



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 05:20 PM
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I don't understand. How could Jesus be considered a Muslim if Islam wasn't even a religion until centuries after Jesus' death?



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 05:43 PM
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I meant to say Arab. If you do some reading on a lot of the masonic traditions, there are a lot rooted in Arabic/Muslim type tradition.

I probably shouldn't say this either, but some of the freemasons also believe Jesus is Lucifer.

You know Jesus (Christ) is referred to as the morning star in Christianity. The word Lucifer means morning star. The only difference is, Christianity has disassociated it and instead of saying Jesus is Lucifer, they say, Jesus is the morning star (the real morning star) and Lucifer is the fake morning star.

In a related note, if Jesus was a Jew, and although some say he was killed by the Jews or Romans, does that justify hating the Jews yet worshipping Jesus? I'm talking about this contradiction posed by the KKK.

The KKK, who's rituals are said to correlate with masonic rituals because they were possibly written by the mason Albert Pike.

I'm not saying Masons hate the Jews or even Blacks because they can't join. I'm just saying that seems odd and I don't know.

I personally don't see how you can worship a Jew yet hate Jews, unless secretly among the top they know he's an Arab.

Just a bizzare twist to think about.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 06:21 PM
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Christ means - Enlightened one. Christ is just a title hence Jesus Christ. He was an enlighted man. He recieved this enlightenment in the 30 so years after birth and when he appeared to spread his message. he travelled the world, India, Africa, etc gaining enlightenment



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 12:14 AM
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Buddha also means enlightened one. Are you saying Christ is Buddha?



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 12:30 AM
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wouldn't that suck if you were a freemason and found out that Jesus' real name was Yeshua once you recieved that final rank. I would be like screw this religion, I am going else where, what a waste of my time!



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 12:34 AM
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Not all arabs are muslims. There are alot of Christian arabs. If Jesus was an arab so be it. It does not matter where he was from. Back then there were arab jews and there are still arab jews.



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by Lord Altmis
I meant to say Arab. If you do some reading on a lot of the masonic traditions, there are a lot rooted in Arabic/Muslim type tradition.

I probably shouldn't say this either, but some of the freemasons also believe Jesus is Lucifer.

You know Jesus (Christ) is referred to as the morning star in Christianity. The word Lucifer means morning star. The only difference is, Christianity has disassociated it and instead of saying Jesus is Lucifer, they say, Jesus is the morning star (the real morning star) and Lucifer is the fake morning star.

In a related note, if Jesus was a Jew, and although some say he was killed by the Jews or Romans, does that justify hating the Jews yet worshipping Jesus? I'm talking about this contradiction posed by the KKK.

The KKK, who's rituals are said to correlate with masonic rituals because they were possibly written by the mason Albert Pike.

I'm not saying Masons hate the Jews or even Blacks because they can't join. I'm just saying that seems odd and I don't know.

I personally don't see how you can worship a Jew yet hate Jews, unless secretly among the top they know he's an Arab.

Just a bizzare twist to think about.



Freemasons allow theists of all ethnicities, religions, and cultures. Where did you get the slanderous misinformation that Jews and Blacks are not allowed to join? I would not be surprised if some individual lodges in very prejudiced regions have an unwritten ban on them, but the organization as a whole welcomes all theists.
If he was killed, he was killed by the Romans, crucifixion was never a Jewish form of capital punishment. If you believe the Jews could tell the Romans who to crucify and who not to, that is your business, but I find that idea laughable. The Romans told the Jews what to do, not vice versa.
If Jesus was an Arab, an African, a Bhuddhist, a Hindu, whatever....it makes no difference to me whatsoever. Cuz the priceless message attributed to him is not changed one bit.



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 03:57 AM
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Not only was he a Jew, he was a Pharisee, to the surprise of many. Christianity's theological basis of heaven descend directly from the same Pharisaic theology. The Pharisees were the only Jews at the time who believed in heaven. Well, the "Kingdom of God", anyway. Jesus' criticisms were meant to be constructive and introspective (relative to Pharisaic Judaism) in nature, to change the direction the Pharisees were taking.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Apr, 3 2005 @ 06:33 PM
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im a little botherd by the fact that some of you, who i consider rather well read, intelligent and not lacking in common sense, would seriously contemplate a question such as "was Christ a Christian?".

Perhaps a lesson in cause and effect or chronological order will help clear up such an elementry issue.


Forgive me for sounding like an a hole... but i just had to get that off my chest after reading this whole post.



[edit on 3-4-2005 by krossfyter]



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