US Soldiers Told to 'Beat the (Expletive) Out of' Detainees

Originally posted by BillHicksRules
Here are some quick quotes from the Geneva Convention 1949

Just wanted to let you know that as of recent, America is above to Geneva codes. For example, legally the recent election in Iraq is ruled invalid under the Geneva codes because it was done at a time when another country was occupying the country undergoing the election.

It seems as if we use the Geneva Convention as a tool to get other countries to comply with our demands.




[edit on 4/5/2005 by Simulacra]

Simulcra,

As with most things nowadays.

For example, the WTO.

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by BillHicksRules
For example, the WTO.

The World Trade Organization is a silly exhibition of corporate power and control. For all intensive purposes, America owns the WTO. If not own, then we heavily influence the mandates that are created and enforced by the WTO. The Corporation and WTO are two inseperable entities both with the same agenda.

BillHicks,

Well if the info saves lives thats when its worth it I not completly for torture but if its going to save lives than so be it. Yes there are laws and we need to abide by them but what if an Iraqi knows were another attack is going to be at and we torture him and he tells us where its going to be at and when. And we get there and stop it, wouldn't that be justification enough? Instead of letting people die.

Thanks for the comment though.

Demos,

So the ends justify the means?

Where do you draw the line?

Cheers

BHR

p.s. Where is the proof that the holding of the detainees at Gitmo has saved any lives. Furthemore, they have been held for over 3 years now. It is my guess that two things will have happened, firstly, any plans they knew of would have been changed and secondly, they know nothing of current plans.

Ok true there would be no end to it and it would probably end up bad for both sides.

Well if you new someone wanted to hurt you or possibly kill you and you had them trapped in saw a cell would you let them go? Probably not, and if the ones are trained terrorists then they have been making head notes of what the compound is like and they would now how to strike and when if you released them. Therefore killing many and possibly setting free more insurgents and terrorists.

A little reality from someone who was there and is refusing to go back, I put a small excerpt from an interview done by Amy Goodman of Democracy Now (a one hour news show that comes on free speech tv it is totally funded by viewers (no corporate funding) you might want to save the website to check on the shows daily broadcast if you can't watch it on tv.) with a soldier who was there for his one year term and then was being sent back for another term and is refusing to go back.

www.democracynow.org.../03/15/1454208
AMY GOODMAN: Tell us what you saw in Iraq, what you experienced.

ANONYMOUS AWOL SOLDIER: Well, when I first went to Iraq, I actually believed what the government was saying, that we were searching for weapons of mass destruction, we were making the country safe for democracy and things like that. But when we got there, I quickly found another story. I very quickly found that the Iraqis didn't want us there and that the image they're reporting in the news at home was that everything is -- everything is going well. And I really think the media tried to make a face on that at the beginning. But we got there, the Iraqis, they'd throw stones at us, unless you gave them money. If you gave them money or food, they liked you for a little bit. But public opinion was not very good over there at all.

One thing that I saw that very much bothered me was as a military policeman some of our jobs. I was in Tikrit, Iraq. We would drive around town and our sergeants, our officers, would get bored so they'd tell us to go raid this whole block of homes, you know. And so we'd go into every home, and if we found anything as small as a knife or a pistol in any home, which I think you could go in any home in America and find a knife or a pistol, but if we found anything like that, we'd arrest all the males in the house, ages eight to 80 and leave all the females behind crying their eyes out, and that was never very fun to watch. Then what we’d go do is throw these men who maybe didn't do anything in the same jails as the ones that we knew had set off I.E.D.s and had set off -- and had tried to kill soldiers. So, you're just throwing them all in with each other, and eventually it is going to change their minds. You know, you are going to make the distant relatives bitter, and you are going to -- you are starting a whole new war with people who really don't deserve it.

Growing up in the early sixties as a child I was subjected to the nightly ritual of listening to the news (small 4 room house, I used to hide under the kitchen table when the news would come on) I believed that we the USA was the good guys, all our doings were for one reason and that was to bring peace to the world and to keep us all safe. I grew up and actually started thinking for myself and started wondering why we were really doing the things we did but more and more I am finding that many people are still hiding under the kitchen table in total denial. The American people for the most part are good people but our government has its own agenda and part of that is to keep us all in denial and gullible. I sometimes think the powers that be set back and laugh gleefully at how dumb many of its citizens are because they believe everythiing they are told. Some Americans actually believe there is no propaganda used against them in this country by their own governmment, they actually believe that when the truth comes out that they the gov. got wrong information and that it is all a mistake. Here is more info about the torture of prisoners, I posted only a small excerpt and also posted the link, if it does not show look at the date 2/17/05 (in the link listed as 05/02/17 and go to browse archive click February and then the 17 for the story.
www.democracynow.org.../02/17/1530242
a major piece in last week's New Yorker magazine documents the practice known as "extraordinary rendition," where prisoners are shipped to countries known for their poor human rights records and history of torture. The piece is called "Outsourcing Torture" by Jane Mayer and it documents the increased use of rendition since 2001. One of the cases she writes about is a case we have covered extensively on this program. And that is the case of Canadian citizen Maher Arar. Two years ago the Syrian-born software engineer was detained by US officials while on a stopover in New York. He was then jailed and secretly deported to Syria. He was held for almost a year without charge in an underground cell not much larger than a grave, where he was tortured. Time Magazine in Canada named him the country's newsmaker of 2004

Goose,

The truely frightening thing is that there are many on here and in the US at large who will see what you have posted as "traitorous lies and propaganda".

Keep up the good work.

Cheers

BHR

Thanks, but I think that many more are starting to see the light as Bush cuts more and more education and social programs and the war keeps dragging on. His popularity is slipping.

Goose,

It is a shame that as you say, more and more Americans are realising the truth about Bush when it is too late to do anything about it.

Cheers

BHR

Better for some Americans to realize NOW that they've been lied to consistently than to have to explain to their children or their grandchildren that they were totally 100% hoodwinked by all the Bushies lies.

The rest of us who are not subjected to the laughable US media know it, it's the Americans who are being kept in the dark about it.


Pathetic, really, when you think this is coming from the country that champions itself as the paragon of democracy and justice.

j

Originally posted by BillHicksRules

It is a shame that as you say, more and more Americans are realising the truth about Bush when it is too late to do anything about it.

It's never to late for Americans to take back our country. Unity is the problem, our nation has been so divided on black/white. liberal/conservative, republican/democrat that we have lost touch with what truly brings us all together, the need for true freedom.

Simulcra,

I was saying it was a shame since it is another 4 years till you can effect a change.

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by BillHicksRules
Simulcra,

I was saying it was a shame since it is another 4 years till you can effect a change.

Cheers

BHR

It only takes one bill to pass in congress for the president to be impeached, and that could happen at any given time.

Simulcra,

With a Republican congress and senate, I will not hold my breath.

Cheers

BHR

So now that I have shown that the US actions in Gitmo are illegal lets move on.

“They are not POWS. if you captured a gang member would you call them a POW?“

No, I would call them a criminal and try them as such. Full rights and legal representation required.

So which is it to be WP?

Did Al Quida sign the Geneva Conventions? NOPE Do they follow it, NOPE. Hey two side can play that game.

Also what “full rights” are you talking about? They are not U.S. citizens and they don't get the rights of POW’s because they are not POW’s so what “full rights” should they get?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Did Al Quida sign the Geneva Conventions? NOPE Do they follow it, NOPE. Hey two side can play that game.

Also what “full rights” are you talking about? They are not U.S. citizens and they don't get the rights of POW’s because they are not POW’s so what “full rights” should they get?

Well said WP.

Geneva Convention rights are for those countries who signed on and for our enemies who wear a uniform...not for a punk who blows up kids in a Cafe.

Maximu§

Geneva Convention rights are for those countries who signed on and for our enemies who wear a uniform...not for a punk who blows up kids in a Cafe.

So you want to go down to their level? They blow up cafés and buses so you want to be allowed torture and humiliate captives while arresting people on a whim and denying them basic rights? Wow aren't we lucky America has such upstanding examples of honour and virtue for us all to live up to.

Originally posted by cmdrpaddy
So you want to go down to their level?

We are no where near the level of Iraqi insurgents. Remember, these people record innocent people beg for their lives for days then zoom as a machete saws the neck of the people eventually detaching their head from their bodies. Comparing U.S. soldiers to Iraqi insurgents is offensive.

Originally posted by cmdrpaddy
They blow up cafés and buses so you want to be allowed torture and humiliate captives

Humiliation and ill treatment goes with the title of prisoner. These aren’t house guest. Remember, these people are the same Iraqis that, if not detained, would be more than happy to suicide bomb U.S. Soldiers or innocent bystanders. We are doing them a favor by keeping them alive as they would much rather die in the name of Allah than be held by their enemies.

Originally posted by cmdrpaddy
while arresting people on a whim and denying them basic rights?

We don't arrest people on the whim. We arrest former Iraqi soldiers and suspected terrorist. Basic rights? These people aren’t US citizens. Their protection isn’t guaranteed under the guise of the US Constitution.

Originally posted by cmdrpaddy
Wow aren't we lucky America has such upstanding examples of honour and virtue for us all to live up to.

America has Freedom. Iraq now has freedom. The freedom to elect their president and progress the future of their country the way they see fit. Not under an oppressive dictator.