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US Soldiers Told to 'Beat the (Expletive) Out of' Detainees

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posted on Apr, 1 2005 @ 11:22 PM
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The American Civil Liberties Union has recently discovered evidence within a 1,200 document stating that soldiers were ordered to "beat the f**k out of" detainees and orchestrate other means of torture. The US Military claims that rigorous violence towards the prisoners we only means to 'soften up' the prisoners for strenuous interrogation.
 



www.antiwar.com
The ACLU said the reason for the delay in delivering the more than 1,200 pages of documents was "evident in the contents," which include reports of brutal beatings, "exercise until exhaustion," and sworn statements that soldiers were told to "beat the f**k out of" detainees. One file cites evidence that military intelligence personnel in Iraq "tortured" detainees held in their custody.

Army officials also released the first full accounting of 16 closed detainee-homicide investigations and eight open cases from Afghanistan and Iraq. The list shows that half of the cases (12) occurred in U.S. detention facilities abroad from late 2002 to late 2004.

"At a minimum, the documents indicate a colossal failure of leadership," ACLU attorney Jameel Jaffer told IPS. "The documents provide further evidence that abuse of prisoners was pervasive in Iraq. The government's contention that abuse was aberrational is completely unhinged from reality."


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


But are the US Military to blame? War prisoners are not guaranteed constitutional rights. Yes these human beings but we have to realize that they are prisoners. In the battlefield, they were ready and willing to kill any US soldier by any means necessary. If not in battle, they have been concluded to be a grave threat to Homeland Security which, in itself is reason enough for their detainment.

If US soldiers were somehow captured by the now dissolved Iraqi resistance, they would have paraded around their newly acquired victim, place him in an orange suit, and video tape his beheading as he cried for mercy. Now tell me, would you rather be a prisoner within Iraq or a prisoner within America?

Enough Said.


Mod Edit: To title only.

[edit on 2-4-2005 by UM_Gazz]




posted on Apr, 1 2005 @ 11:41 PM
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.
With tactics like these you may occasionally get a scrap of vital info.

But at what cost?

Win the battle but lose the war for hearts and minds of people.

Who can stand up and be truly and deeply from the heart proud of a nation that regularly treats people this way?
.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 12:54 AM
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Big Deal, If I was a guard at Guantanimo I would give those terrorist punks a rifle-butt in the head for breakfast and a kick in the balls for lunch.

Your ACLU source is pure propaganda, in fact the entire ACLU should be locked up right next to the terrorists their protecting.

Maximu§



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 01:48 AM
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Its reports like this that guarantee that the violence in Iraq will not stop until all foreign occupiers are out of the country.

With 227 coalition troops killed in the first three months of 2005 alone compared with the 127 killed in the first three months of 2004, these continued negative revelations bode very poorly for everybody living in Iraq. If the U.S. military does not want to create further rebels, then it must either stop performing such abuses or completely stop media flow of these reports not only out of the country but inside Iraq as well. Not to mention that the stated alleged goal of trying to make Iraq into a positive example for other muslim countries not currently in favor with U.S. policy is certainly being very undermined by these reports and continued violence.

[edit on 2-4-2005 by Frith]



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 02:20 AM
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Originally posted by slank
.
With tactics like these you may occasionally get a scrap of vital info.

But at what cost?

Win the battle but lose the war for hearts and minds of people.

Who can stand up and be truly and deeply from the heart proud of a nation that regularly treats people this way?
.


I think every nation at some point or another is guilty of war crimes againt prisoners. Vietnam, France, Germany, Russia, USA, Many African countries and many others.

The prisoners that were later found guilty or charged should be dealt with accorrdingly and the prisoners that were beaten or tortured and later found innocent should be compensated to more than cover any "emotional" damage or whatever that may have been caused. And a formal apology to them.

It is not right to torture an entire prison camp, there are exceptions. Key assets that may have info needed to save lives or maybe certain "leaders" or key people.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Your ACLU source is pure propaganda, in fact the entire ACLU should be locked up right next to the terrorists their protecting.


Oh please. Who was there to prevent Rush Limbaugh's medical records from being made public? That's right the ACLU.

Comparing them to terrorists has to be one of the most ignorant statements i have ever heard.

You know i doubt you've ever even read their mission statement, so i'll paste it for you right now:



www.aclu.org...

The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and guarantees:

* Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the strict separation of church and state.
* Your right to equal protection under the law - equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin.
* Your right to due process - fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.
* Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.


Sure sounds pretty patriotic to me.


But, i bet this is the part you've got a problem with



We work also to extend rights to segments of our population that have traditionally been denied their rights, including Native Americans and other people of color; lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgendered people; women; mental-health patients; prisoners; people with disabilities; and the poor.


Uh oh. They like to help those who can't/won't speak up for their rights. Can't have that now can we? I mean sheesh, it's not like the Constitution or Bill of Rights *really* applies every American, right?

[edit on 2-4-2005 by negativenihil]

[edit on 2-4-2005 by negativenihil]



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Big Deal, If I was a guard at Guantanimo I would give those terrorist punks a rifle-butt in the head for breakfast and a kick in the balls for lunch.

Your ACLU source is pure propaganda, in fact the entire ACLU should be locked up right next to the terrorists their protecting.

Maximu§



I imagine you are a "Christian, pro life" believer also. what a joke.


I guess you also believe in eradicating gays and lesbian and reclaiming American for Christ.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 07:38 AM
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Originally posted by Frith
Its reports like this that guarantee that the violence in Iraq will not stop until all foreign occupiers are out of the country.

That's utter nonsense. Not only did we capture a tyrannically dictator (When all is said and done, Sadaam will be on the same pedestal as Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini, to think otherwise is completely ignorant, just look at his resume...it's a bloody and malicious one) but we also implemented Democracy in a people that have been used to not having their voices heard for centuries. Any casualty that occurred in Iraq was worth it...guaranteed. This is beyond the Bush Administration, this is for the betterment of mankind as a whole.


Originally posted by Frith
With 227 coalition troops killed in the first three months of 2005 alone compared with the 127 killed in the first three months of 2004


I would absolutely love to see where you get your war statistics from as they vary page to page based on their political agenda.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 07:50 AM
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Simulacra I guess you thinking has change a lot, this no the member that I knew back many months ago.

Iraq as today remain one of the most dangerous country in the world not only for their citizens but also for foreigners and American Soldiers.

They are dying everyday, Democracy has proven to be a very dangerous thing to the health of the Iraqi people in their own nation.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
They are dying everyday, Democracy has proven to be a very dangerous thing to the health of the Iraqi people in their own nation.


They were dying before the Coalition of the Willing got there. Saddam
was mass murdering them by the hundreds of thousands. Rape rooms
were full. Arms and legs hacked off on a whim.

Democracy isn't dangerous. The people who are against democracy
who are dangerous. The criminal Iraqi insurgents are murdering their own
people. THEY are the dangerous ones ... not democracy and not the
good people of Iraq who risked their lives to go and vote recently.

Democracy didn't cause death in iraq. It was always there. However,
democracy will eventually end it. It just takes time and bravery.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Democracy didn't cause death in iraq. It was always there. However,
democracy will eventually end it. It just takes time and bravery.



I agree with you but, how many lives will have to be sacrifice before peace is achieve, it makes not sense sometime Flayers, how many lives are to be spend, I though Saddam did enough killing in his time, but this becoming a massacre.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Simulacra I guess you thinking has change a lot, this no the member that I knew back many months ago.


Well as you probably know I'm incredibly unbiased. Therefore I can' t take 'sides' and be loyal to any view on the world regardless of whether I've been supporting it for many months or not. I'm not saying that I agree with the Iraq war, I'm not saying that I disagree with it.

Really what im saying is that when it comes to certain issues in our world, it's much deeper than 'yes' or 'no'. These are devices of control implemented by...whatever power that is trying to manipulate the people. Republican/Democrat, Blue/Red, Liberal/Conservative, Black/White, Minority/Majority, Left-Wing/Right-Wing, Conspiracist/Non-Conspiracist, Christian/Muslim, Pro-Life/Pro-Choice...etc. These are all labels that can be conviently placed on people in order to separate them. Once the people are separated then obviously, there will no unity. Bickering will emerge, people will begin to argue, people will further gain a strong belief in their 'side' and people will drift farther apart. Once there is no unity, than whatever power that is trying to control the population can just sit back and watch their plan go into action.

There is no need for a sheep herder when the sheep heard the sheep

This is the polarization of America, and it's crumbling our unity. Just look at the stuff that the government tried to pull over our eyes in the last few decades:

Iran-Contra drug trade that directly linked the US government with the trade of illegal drugs from South America and Iran. What did we do? Nothing.

Evidence of a strong and powerful link with corporations and Nazi Germany in WWII. What did we do? We still financially support these corporations.

Complete evidence of a Government orchestrated 9/11 plot. What did we do? Nothing.

Statistically illegal election of 2000 which placed Bush in office. What did we do? Nothing.

Statistically illegal election of 2004 which placed Bush in office. What did we do? Nothing.

We claim that the basis of war in Iraq was to search for WMD, we found none. What did we do? Nothing.

It's clear the reason why we didn’t do anything is because we have been so enveloped on defending our 'side of the fence'. We find a side that we stick with and defend it. All the while, the government is planning their next Problem-Reaction-Solution disaster.

People become addicted to beliefs, and when that belief is taken away they act like addicts and fiend for their belief. It's the most subversive drug in the world.

As far as coming to conclusions on events that are occurring in our world, we need to look past the 'single' cause/effect model that we have so conviently use. We are used to everything in our world having a single cause and a single effect. This happened because and only because of this. But in reality, there are many causes for one effect. For example, you are not just a member of ATS because you signed up. No way.
You are a member of ATS because you are genuinely interested in the content.
You are a member of ATS because you love to interact with people.
You are a member of ATS because you have an internet connection
You are a member of ATS because you can read
You are a member of ATS because you love to talk about politics
You are a member of ATS because you have fingers to type

See what I'm getting at? Therefore..
The War on Iraq happened because we needed to throw Sadaam Hussein out of office.
The War on Iraq happened because the government wanted to pursue their own corporate interest and secure the last remaining deposits of oil.
The War on Iraq happened because we wanted to instil democracy into the Iraqi people.
The War on Iraq happened because George Bush wanted to finish what his Dad started.

All these causes could exactly simultaneously. There need not be only one cause and one effect.

Anyway, my point is marg6043 that if it seemed like I changed in the past few months, then I don't know maybe I have. I'm just tired of seeing America polarizing. If we were truly united we could take back what is rightfully ours, our country.

But hey, I still love you.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by Simulacra
Anyway, my point is marg6043 that if it seemed like I changed in the past few months, then I don't know maybe I have. I'm just tired of seeing America polarizing. If we were truly united we could take back what is rightfully ours, our country.

But hey, I still love you.


Hey I still like you too,


But I am still against the war and what has become of iraq, and that is something I can not change due to the fact that it was a wrong decision.


I am still pro-choice and if people call me liberal oh, well so beat it.

I am not about to change my views just to make anybody happy.




[edit on 2-4-2005 by marg6043]



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by Simulacra
That's utter nonsense. Not only did we capture a tyrannically dictator (When all is said and done, Sadaam will be on the same pedestal as Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini, to think otherwise is completely ignorant, just look at his resume...it's a bloody and malicious one) but we also implemented Democracy in a people that have been used to not having their voices heard for centuries. Any casualty that occurred in Iraq was worth it...guaranteed. This is beyond the Bush Administration, this is for the betterment of mankind as a whole.

I don't give one iota of a crap about Saddam Hussein. If anybody actually looks at the real statistics of actual physical bodies found his reputation seems to be quite exaggerated for propoganda's sake. Anyway, my issue is with the continued violence in Iraq killing Iraqis that didn't have to be killed. Not over political names like Saddam. This war and the violence that has continued in Iraq since March 2003 is 100% unecessary.

Forced western democratization through military power and political lies is not going to make the world a better place. And its quite apparent given that a portion of Iraqis don't want it to the point of killing over it. With the non-violent ones caught in the crossfire between them and a giant western military machine that shoots anything that moves out of fear, stupidity, and downright criminality. It is not worth the lives lost and the continued potential lives lost in this conflict.

With the Shiites demanding an election be held outside the schedule of U.S. policy and with the current political conflicts within this new government, the subject of stability of government, or even a peaceful government, remains to be seen. To some degree the Iraqi government elected by the people through this occupation is not in line all the way with U.S. wishes. They very well could turn violent too and with the current problems of living in Iraq, I really fear they might. Then the entire country would be out of coalition control.


I would absolutely love to see where you get your war statistics from as they vary page to page based on their political agenda.

icasualties.org... - Casualty figures listed by month.

[edit on 2-4-2005 by Frith]



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
I guess you also believe in eradicating gays and lesbian and reclaiming
American for Christ.



The only joke in here Marg is you and the other posters in here who love the Terrorist prisoners and the ACLU more than they do our US Marines.

I never attacked Gays or Lesbians so don't sterio-type me with your BS.


Maximu§



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by LA_Maximus


The only joke in here Marg is you and the other posters in here who love the Terrorist prisoners and the ACLU more than they do our US Marines.

I never attacked Gays or Lesbians so don't sterio-type me with your BS.


Maximu§


I see..........insults are very nice well put by you, but as you can see it was your post the want that prompted my response.



Big Deal, If I was a guard at Guantanamo I would give those terrorist punks a rifle-butt in the head for breakfast and a kick in the balls for lunch.


Now how dose that quote make you feel when you posted? big and strong.......patriotic........or like I see it just full of bs, just like you tell me my answer was.

Its so typical when somebody can not come with a good response it make them feel all big and strong to denigrate others.

I hope that the statement that you made will never happen to you, and if it dose, pardon me for not feeling any sorry for you suffering.

After all it seems that you have neglected to see what is going on in Guantanamo, people that were Innocent were detained and torture, with the ones that were guilty.

But as usual when the people is not from our on races and country is OK to do whatever to them after all they may not even be humans when they don't belong to our own religious believe and worship the same god.

What a shame.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 05:47 PM
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I guess you also believe in eradicating gays and lesbian and reclaiming American for Christ.


I don't want to eradicate them I just don't want them to get married. And I don't believe in god so your Christ stereotype doesn't fly with me.

And the ACLU are the biggest crooks around, if someone tries to ask his employers in California if they are legal or illegal, the ACLU is all over trying to protect the illegals.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
And the ACLU are the biggest crooks around, if someone tries to ask his employers in California if they are legal or illegal, the ACLU is all over trying to protect the illegals.


If defending the rights given to us in the Constitution and Bill of Rights makes one a crook... i don't ever wanna be on the up and up


Also- have you got a link to back up your statement that the ACLU is protecting illegals? I've been searching google and well i can seem to find anything.

edit- if you're talking about the ACLU sending people to make sure the Minutemen don't beat/kill any illegals crossing the boarder... then well you have issues.

you can jail illegals and deport them, but what right do you have to cause them excessive harm?


[edit on 2-4-2005 by negativenihil]

[edit on 2-4-2005 by negativenihil]



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 06:10 PM
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I perceive the ACLU as a little nuts, but fundamentally well-intentioned.

They even defended the KKK when the KKK burned down ACLU headquarters. Now that's dedication.

I think torture is wrong because it's not effective, and it leads to more resentment, and it makes the torturers more savage.

Mental Note: Never put LA Maximus in charge of prisoners.

You know, this might shock and amaze some people, but there is a concept in this country, and we believe in it very strongly - innocent until proven guilty. Of course, clever legal wrangling pretty much insured anyone captured by our military is inhuman, so there goes that standard.

I think it takes a greater decency, and would show more courage on the part of prison administration, to treat these men as they would a normal prisoner of war - compassionate, humane, dignified imprisonment.

When the VC tortured our boys, there were no American apologists defending their actions - everyone stuck to calling them inhuman and barbaric, and now the very same people are defending the torturers because it's convenient and supports your cause. It doesn't make any kind of logical sense - because it's racism, pure and simple.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 10:17 PM
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Really have the Minutemen killed or hurt anyone? Nope they have not don't make judgments. They only have weapons just incase one of the illegal’s is armed.

And In California its against the law ask an employee of yours if he is legal or illegal because the ACLU worked so hard to make it one. They are not protected by the constitution they are not American Citizens. Jumping over a fence does not make you an American Citizen.



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