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Why are people mourning the Pope?

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posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 02:03 AM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia
I need proof of your accusations.


Ignorance, insanity, and lying all rolled into one-
1wintermute1, and your eventual support. Using a website that references lizard people, yet referring to the religious as foolish...words cannot express exactly how wrong that is. And believing the ravings of a lunatic that the Pope sold deadly chemcials to the Nazis when he spent the Nazi occupation either in hiding or in forced labor shows a total lack of willingness to use your cognitive functions.

Igorance- You, "Sorry, but in all my years I cannot recall at any moment when the pope has changed the world significantly for the better."
He apologized for the past sins of the Church, specifically it's treatment of Jews. As in admitting that Christians have amde mistakes.
He was instrumental in freeing his homeland from communist oppression.

There's two. Two well-known ones at that.

But utter, utter insanity comes from your listing of papal facts. At one time, you say that peopel adhering to Catholicism are backwards and stupid, yet you claim the Pope is an evil man for liberalizing the Church and not adhering to the strictest letter of the law? That makes no sense. Him beginning to regard women as equal is somehow BAD, and he needs to rot in hell for it? You're the worst of ATS, someone who is both ignorant and obviously with mental problems, because there is no way someone with a clear head could allow such unbridled cognitive dissonance.

In other words, there are two possiblities. Either you need to get on some meds, or you're just a #ing idiot.

Warn taken with pride




posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 02:17 AM
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[quoteThe true awakening of mankind will occur when we realize that religion is no longer needed to sustain our existance.

I do not follow a manmade religion but I do accept all faiths as people rights.

True awakening is about acceptance, tolerance, understanding and freedom. It is not about denying those who need religion in their lives access. For this is not freedom it is denial of peoples rights. True awakening is not based on hatred and bigotry either.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 02:23 AM
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Originally posted by Esoterica

Originally posted by eudaimonia
I need proof of your accusations.


Ignorance, insanity, and lying all rolled into one-
1wintermute1, and your eventual support. Using a website that references lizard people, yet referring to the religious as foolish...words cannot express exactly how wrong that is. And believing the ravings of a lunatic that the Pope sold deadly chemcials to the Nazis when he spent the Nazi occupation either in hiding or in forced labor shows a total lack of willingness to use your cognitive functions.

Igorance- You, "Sorry, but in all my years I cannot recall at any moment when the pope has changed the world significantly for the better."
He apologized for the past sins of the Church, specifically it's treatment of Jews. As in admitting that Christians have amde mistakes.
He was instrumental in freeing his homeland from communist oppression.

There's two. Two well-known ones at that.

But utter, utter insanity comes from your listing of papal facts. At one time, you say that peopel adhering to Catholicism are backwards and stupid, yet you claim the Pope is an evil man for liberalizing the Church and not adhering to the strictest letter of the law? That makes no sense. Him beginning to regard women as equal is somehow BAD, and he needs to rot in hell for it? You're the worst of ATS, someone who is both ignorant and obviously with mental problems, because there is no way someone with a clear head could allow such unbridled cognitive dissonance.

In other words, there are two possiblities. Either you need to get on some meds, or you're just a #ing idiot.

Warn taken with pride


How could the pope possibly ever explain this?:

Inverted Cross (Symbol of Satanism)


Twisted Crucifix (2nd Satanic Symbol)


You can find this information everywhere. Not theories or fabricated.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 02:36 AM
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Originally posted by Lady of the Lake

I do not follow a manmade religion but I do accept all faiths as people rights.

True awakening is about acceptance, tolerance, understanding and freedom. It is not about denying those who need religion in their lives access. For this is not freedom it is denial of peoples rights. True awakening is not based on hatred and bigotry either.



I'm trying to make an effort to show others that there is more to the story behind those curtains. If you feel that having complete trust in catholicism will benefit you in all aspects of life, then so be it. As for me, I need something that fits my definition of truth, freedom, and love. I need to progress and evolve my conscious to something less primitive.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 03:16 AM
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Oh just grow up already.

Catholic bashing of this nature just shows that many people still value angst and emotion over learning their history and philosophy.

As one who has studied the Catholics to exhaustion for years, while not being any form of Christian myself, I can tell you quite simply why over a sixth of the global population is mourning:

He's their damn leader! Give it up already; imagine if Bush were to die, Republicans would be in mourning. Such as it is for John-Paul II.

Others say he was a great man. You may not, and that is your right. There were people that thought even Gandhi was a jerk and there were quite a few who didn't like Dr. King. While it's a matter of debate as to weather John Paul II would hold a candle to either of these men (and I'm not making my side on that issue known so don't bloody well put words in my mouth) he is seen by what I would believe to be the majority of Americans and Europeans at least to be a good man. Thus, they mourn his passing.

Now the so-called "Satanic images" are a complete load of slander. Firstly one must remember that Satanists do NOT worship any Christian figures, demonic or otherwise. They are secular humanists, look it up and read the Satanic Bible if you doubt this. Secondly, the pope has no reason to align himself with secular humanists; it would hurt the Church as a whole. Their ideas are quite opposing and there is no specific power to be gained by becoming a Satanist (despite what Anton and others would say) other than the simple truth in not beating around the bush in your religious ideas.

So in closing, let it go already. If you do not agree with the Catholics and the Pope, then just go about your business and let them have their mornings and memorials in peace. No one is being hurt by it that I can see. When Regan died my liberal friends and I held our tongues and let the conservatives have their honoring. Please, please above all though, do not use the suffering and death of a human to give yourself a soapbox to preach your own agenda, whatever it may be. That is about as low as you can get in my book.

Blessed Be & May Peace Travel With You
~Astral


[edit on 4/2/2005 by The Astral City]



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 03:51 AM
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You're the worst of ATS, someone who is both ignorant and obviously with mental problems, because there is no way someone with a clear head could allow such unbridled cognitive dissonance.


That's kind of interesting, Esoterica. I agree, and I find some similarities between your description and that of a "Troll":


Trolls see Internet communications services as convenient venues for their bizarre game. For some reason, they don't "get" that they are hurting real people. To them, other Internet users are not quite human but are a kind of digital abstraction. As a result, they feel no sorrow whatsoever for the pain they inflict. Indeed, the greater the suffering they cause, the greater their 'achievement' (as they see it). At the moment, the relative anonymity of the net allows trolls to flourish.

Trolls are utterly impervious to criticism (constructive or otherwise). You cannot negotiate with them; you cannot cause them to feel shame or compassion; you cannot reason with them. They cannot be made to feel remorse. For some reason, trolls do not feel they are bound by the rules of courtesy or social responsibility.

Perhaps this sounds inconceivable. You may think, "Surely there is something I can write that will change them." But a true troll can not be changed by mere words.


politics.abovetopsecret.com...

MK



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 03:54 AM
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Originally posted by The Astral CityOh just grow up already.


Well, at least I know how you feel about me. Good start.




While it's a matter of debate as to weather John Paul II would hold a candle to either of these men (and I'm not making my side on that issue known so don't bloody well put words in my mouth) he is seen by what I would believe to be the majority of Americans and Europeans at least to be a good man.


Hmm, that's a very interesting and telling statement indeed.


imagine if Bush were to die, Republicans would be in mourning. Such as it is for John-Paul II.


Wow, I'd never see the day when Bush and John-Paul II are used in the same sentence. Quite scary.


Thus, they mourn his passing.


No problem there. In my opinion, a complete waste of energy.


No one is being hurt by it that I can see.


If your implying by physical means, that is correct. I will say no more.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 04:08 AM
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Originally posted by MKULTRA

You're the worst of ATS, someone who is both ignorant and obviously with mental problems, because there is no way someone with a clear head could allow such unbridled cognitive dissonance.


That's kind of interesting, Esoterica. I agree, and I find some similarities between your description and that of a "Troll":


Trolls see Internet communications services as convenient venues for their bizarre game. For some reason, they don't "get" that they are hurting real people. To them, other Internet users are not quite human but are a kind of digital abstraction. As a result, they feel no sorrow whatsoever for the pain they inflict. Indeed, the greater the suffering they cause, the greater their 'achievement' (as they see it). At the moment, the relative anonymity of the net allows trolls to flourish.

Trolls are utterly impervious to criticism (constructive or otherwise). You cannot negotiate with them; you cannot cause them to feel shame or compassion; you cannot reason with them. They cannot be made to feel remorse. For some reason, trolls do not feel they are bound by the rules of courtesy or social responsibility.

Perhaps this sounds inconceivable. You may think, "Surely there is something I can write that will change them." But a true troll can not be changed by mere words.


politics.abovetopsecret.com...

MK


Interesting how you left that out in the open so that I may be "embarrassed" in some shape or form. That is, if you were directing that at me. Here's the deal. I do feel remorse, and I can reason. And I'm definitely not playing a game here. Slap that label somewhere else, my friend.

Funny how "mental problems" is thrown around like it's a piece of flesh. I think I'm quite capable of holding a intelligent conversation. A listener of all sides. Someone who you've never met, and I'm already burned at the stake. If I'm the worst of ATS, then I'm saddened by the unwillingness of others to be open-minded enough to continue a serious debate without name calling. It's a shame.

Oh and trust me, my mind is as clear as day.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 04:15 AM
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Beautiful, your ability to completely read only what you wish from my post, says quite a bit about you.

I see no reason to continue in this thread, I've stated how I feel about the issue and it stands for all to read. I do believe your entire voice in this dialogue has been an exercise in childish lashing out at something you have not taken the time to fully understand.

You may feel that you are quite too enlightened, cultured and generally above to believe in religion's value, but you should take note how many truly brilliant people have devoted their lives to it. Did they not think things through? Where their capacities for reason somehow flipped off when it came to belief? St. Thomas Aquinas was one of the most coherent philosophers of all time; indeed it took an entire period of thought to lay down the arguments he made. With thinkers like that, it's a grave wonder that people still call religion a drug for the uncritical.

I'd wager also that given the chance, the pope could argue his case quite well, enough at least to tear apart the arguments of the likes of you, and many others of this forum, including myself.

However, this is not the point I tried to put forth in my last piece. I believe that your posting here says more about your own anger and issues than those of serious theological debate. I also still believe it quite inappropriate, but as I said, you have your right to your opinions and I would fight to the death for your right to express them.

May Peace Travel With You
~Astral



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 04:33 AM
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I'm trying to make an effort to show others that there is more to the story behind those curtains. If you feel that having complete trust in catholicism will benefit you in all aspects of life, then so be it. As for me, I need something that fits my definition of truth, freedom, and love. I need to progress and evolve my conscious to something less primitive.


If people chose to put complete trust in catholicism or any nother religion for that matter that is their right and their business - not yours. If your desire is to show others that there is more behind the curtains then do it in a constructive way not by being vulgar and cruel. Certainly not insulting their spiritual leader. Softly, softly and all of that. You might just find people might we REALLY listen to you rather than thinking you are an idiot.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 04:50 AM
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Originally posted by Lady of the Lake

I'm trying to make an effort to show others that there is more to the story behind those curtains. If you feel that having complete trust in catholicism will benefit you in all aspects of life, then so be it. As for me, I need something that fits my definition of truth, freedom, and love. I need to progress and evolve my conscious to something less primitive.


If people chose to put complete trust in catholicism or any nother religion for that matter that is their right and their business - not yours. If your desire is to show others that there is more behind the curtains then do it in a constructive way not by being vulgar and cruel. Certainly not insulting their spiritual leader. Softly, softly and all of that. You might just find people might we REALLY listen to you rather than thinking you are an idiot.

Lady of the lake - don't drown in anger
this is still a conspiracy site and you will see different views of others.
Back to the topic - I only wonder why the flock is praying for him?
As the mediator between humans and "the lord" would he not have a soul-right to be with his father? Or are the catholics not sure if he makes it to "heaven" and he need to pray for his support? Any suggestions?



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 05:44 AM
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.........don't drown in anger
this is still a conspiracy site and you will see different views of others.
Back to the topic - I only wonder why the flock is praying for him?
As the mediator between humans and "the lord" would he not have a soul-right to be with his father? Or are the catholics not sure if he makes it to "heaven" and he need to pray for his support? Any suggestions?

Hi Snowman - I am not drowning in anger and different views are important - however I feel saddened as a result of some of the cruel comments that have been made. There is enough hate in the world as it is.

Back to the question. Most people would be praying for his safe journey and praying that he doesn't suffer anymore. I suspect many are thanking him and yes he would have a soul right to be with his father. We all have that right.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 06:17 AM
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He had the Holy Spirit; he had a Message from God.
I believe he was a real spiritual leader, who lead people to Christ.

You never find satanic intentions in his writings.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 07:32 AM
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I feel sorry for the man, but really I don't know why I should.

let me explain.

Firstly, as a a religious leader, (and supposidly christian) he has the oblication to lead his church into truth. This was never achieved or attempted however.

Steeped in the traditions of the catholic church, he continued to blaspheme against what the Bible says.

Jesus says that 'none can come to the father execpt through him', the pope says 'none can come to the father except throught the catholic church'

Why does he attribute his near miss with death to Mother Mary? Does she have some special powers that the Bible doesn't tell us about?

Over a billion people look to this one man for spiritual guidance yet what spiritual guidance has he actually given? Why dont these people look to the bible?

Who gives him the authority to dictate the rules of salvation?

A bishop has reported that the pope is so spiritual that while he is close to death, the doors to heaven is already open to him and he is already touching christ, yet the Bible clearly says that 'the dead know nothing'

Yes, I think it is sad that this guy is dying and even sader to think he may have actually believed he was the vicar of Christ. (even if he was elected by man).



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by Netchicken
Maybe they are mourning him because he was a good man, who did a lot to change the world. ... he was the instigator of many of the Eastern European revolutions that lead to the fall of Communism.

Small people try and tear down those who have done big things.


Well said Netchicken. Well said!
(I figured there would be a thread like this popping up.
)



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 08:18 AM
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This has to be "one" of the silliest question I have seen on this board! Why!? Why not!? No, I am not Christian....but people morn rock stars, politicians, people they don't know (Schiavo sp) and any other number of people known by many.....you don't think they would mourn for a religious leader? Why wouldn't they?
Leave em alone and let them mourn in peace....it's common curtsey and decency!

[edit on 4/2/05 by LadyV]



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by 1wintermute1
IF you were to research who the true pope is .....His real name is Karol Wojtyla.

He only became Pope after teh suspicious assasination of Pope John Paul I in 1978

He used to work for IG farben (manufactureers of Zyklon B) before he joined the church .

All are facts look them up.

May John Paul II rot in hell.
All a matter fo record.


Truly and honestly, could you tell me why, in a thread named "why are people mourning the pope" you feel the need share your personal studidity and lack of respect with us like that?
I really wonder what the hell is wrong with people like you...

Do you just enjoy distorting a thread, does it entertain you to piss as many poeple off as you can?
It's people like you that make ATS worse than it could be. It's people like you that should be banned no questions asked.

If I would be allowed to tell you the truth I would tell you you're an idiot, but unfortunately telling trolls the truth is not appreciated by some mods.

[edit on 2-4-2005 by Jakko]



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 11:21 AM
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TextTruly and honestly, could you tell me why, in a thread named "why are people mourning the pope" you feel the need share your personal studidity and lack of respect with us like that?


well said jakko old chap!........yeah...keep your disrespectfull rubbish to your self...your not going to get anything but grief for posts like that...im not religious or catholic but dont lash out at a figure that has done so much for others....his whole life devoted to benefit others than himself.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by The Astral City
I do believe your entire voice in this dialogue has been an exercise in childish lashing out at something you have not taken the time to fully understand.


Here's what I know to be wrong. The pope is out for power, not for his people. Position and not of prayer. Calling him "The Holy Father" is the most insulting, profane, ungodly statement ever to make! He is a man and no more. A better description, a man with a halloween costume masking himself as a leader posing next to the religious right side of God. Completely at face value, a joke.


You may feel that you are quite too enlightened, cultured and generally above to believe in religion's value, but you should take note how many truly brilliant people have devoted their lives to it. Did they not think things through? Where their capacities for reason somehow flipped off when it came to belief?


Brilliant, yes. Informed? no.



St. Thomas Aquinas was one of the most coherent philosophers of all time; indeed it took an entire period of thought to lay down the arguments he made. With thinkers like that, it's a grave wonder that people still call religion a drug for the uncritical.


I couldn't have given a better more appropriate definition what religion is.



I'd wager also that given the chance, the pope could argue his case quite well, enough at least to tear apart the arguments of the likes of you, and many others of this forum, including myself.


I'm sure he could. But would I listen? Probably not. Not someone who declares himself "The Holy Father". Again, that title, very insulting.



However, this is not the point I tried to put forth in my last piece. I believe that your posting here says more about your own anger and issues than those of serious theological debate. I also still believe it quite inappropriate, but as I said, you have your right to your opinions and I would fight to the death for your right to express them.


Give me one sound and logical reason why I or anyone for that matter should take catholicism seriously as a path for true enlightenment.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Lady of the LakeIf people chose to put complete trust in catholicism or any nother religion for that matter that is their right and their business - not yours. If your desire is to show others that there is more behind the curtains then do it in a constructive way not by being vulgar and cruel. Certainly not insulting their spiritual leader. Softly, softly and all of that. You might just find people might we REALLY listen to you rather than thinking you are an idiot.


I try to be as soft as possible, but when you have a religious leader proclaiming himself as the "The Holy Father", then I have to address the issue in a darker light.

Care to read this verse from the bible? :

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Could have the pope forgotten this text? Very unlikely.





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