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Originally posted by bulgarian
Oh guys... i cannot believe the ignorance of some people here in this forum. And again, in this topic, LiquidationOfDiscrepancy is the only person who thinks rationally and NOT like a child.
I don't want to waste my time, argumenting with facts, CNN and FOX aren't telling You, so, the only thing i can say related to this topic is like LiquidationOfDiscrepancy said - dont underestimate NK.
The Bulgarian Government was working along with NK on several projects during the cold war, and i had the access to some class. documents through the position of my father here in Bulgaria. But even if You google a little bit on independent sites, You will find more than You expect about the real military situation in NK and the US.
About the technologie, discussed most in this topic, as we all know Russia and China are selling military technologie secretly to Iran, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, India etc, in this case, we have to remind that NK is also an buyer.
Thats a fact, Russia and China can't just sitting in a chair while the US is empire the earth. So, both countrys wouldn't support NK officially, but secretly they're doing it, and they will do it of course in future (maybe You have to read the topic "americas newest enemy" i've post to understand WHY)
LiquidationOfDiscrepancy, You forgot to say that NK have "Sunburn" and even "Onyx" missiles (SS-N-22 & SS-N-25),
"... SS-N-25 [and now SS-N-26] "Onyx", a devastating and completely unstoppable Mach 2.9 ramjet anti-ship cruise missile which skims the waves at twenty feet, before delivering a knock out blow to its maritime target more than 200 kilometers away..."
Let me see if I've got this right Bulgarian: Liquid and I just had a nice detailed exchange revolving around facts, figures, and principles demonstrated in military history, then you come in calling most of us (including me) children right before saying "I don't want to waste my time argumenting with facts".
Take a long buddy.
How convenient. You assure us that if we had good sources we'd find something other than what research has shown so far, but you don't bother actually showing us these good sources or giving us the details. It's nice that Bulgaria and North Korea were working together 15+ years ago, but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Are you saying that Bulgaria has secrets that would result in the defeat of the USA? I mean hey, if you got it then you got it and good for you, but if you're going to say that then say it and spare me the inuendo.
They aren't selling it to Iraq anymore. We walked right over that technology (spelled with a "y") and kicked Iraq's teeth in.
China wants to contain American, not destroy us. If America goes down, China goes down, and if America and China go down, everyone goes down. Our economies are interdependent. It is only reasonable to expect that China will not seek to start or worsen a Korean war. As I said earlier, they may very well take our side and insist on fighting North Korea themselves if North Korea goes overboard. Let's not forget the pride of the Chinese people- for North Korea to defiantly jeopardize Chinese interests by starting a large war on their border would be a slap in the face and would demand retribution.
Please present evidence of this. Niether Global Security nor any google result turned up anything on this. I searched Janes and although I'm not a paying member and thus could not access the reports I could clearly see from the titles that all of the results dealt with Chinese possession of SS-N-22s- not were about North Korea.
Furthermore please note that the Moskit has only 120km range and at this time does not exist in an air-delievered version. American ships must come within 120km of North Korean missile emplacements, or must allow North Korean vessels to approach within 120km, in order for this weapon to be employed. These are dangerous in the hands of Iran because they control the Strait of Hormuz. North Korea controls no such "pinch point" and would not necessarily be able to make any significant use of these weapons.
In all fairness it's not completely unstoppable. It's extremely hard to stop. Phalanx does have a thin chance against these weapons and just a few kilometers more range to the radar (potentially provided by AWACS) would give Phalanx several additional seconds and likely result in success.
That being said, Moskit remains a very credible threat- just not a fool proof one. What is it that you were saying a few sentences ago? Oh yes, "Don't underestimate.".
Come back when you've got FACTS. I questioned the accuracy of some of liquid's facts, but I respected him for bringing them. You have not done much to earn my respect so far. Your post smacks of blind nationalism.
Originally posted by Bulgarian
Sorry, You misunderstood me. I have in mind users like "Ikema", "American Mad Man" and others, because of their posts in this, AND in other topics
Just one question, do You think that the Russian government is supporting the Iraq also today with weapons? I think yes.
I wasnt saying that China has an interest to destroy the US. I was just saying that there is a silent conflict between the super-powers, and China supports and has to support anti-us related things in order to balance the situation! The US is empiring the whole middle east, China and Russia cannot tolerate and extension to NK.
I give You some facts in about 24 hours at your U2U
Iam not trying to earns anyone respect. Iam not flaming anyone. Maybe i don't write in perfekt english, maybe some people are not on my opinion, but thats no reason to call me an "blind nationalist". Thanks...
Originally posted by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy
I would like to know more about NK tanks compared in juxtapostion to the US tanks. If anyone has anymore information that'd be great
[edit on 053030p://666 by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy]
Originally posted by the_oleneo
Just as Vagabond stated with the NK tanks in comparison to the Abrams tanks. However, the NK tanks stand little or no chance against overwhelming airpower strike from the US Air Force because they are mostly likely targeted first before the US tanks have any chance to engage them.
The odds are against the NK tanks in an overall war scenario, so far. I would anticipate a heavy tank fight between the NK tanks and the SK-US tanks at some points in that war.
Originally posted by The Vagabond
I think I have to humbly disagree. North Korean artillery will almost certainly be the priority target. The tanks aren't as much of a threat, especially since they wont have the fuel to remain mobile for an extended period of time.
Soviet doctrine doesn't use armor as the spearhead of the assault the way Western doctrine does. The tanks are there to provide strategic depth- to plug gaps, exploit openings, and generally do the job of a highly mobile force. The point of the spear for Soviet-model forces is the infantry. Taking out their tanks from the air therefore doesn't do as much to relieve the pressure on us as destroying their artillery (which makes the infantry assault very 1-dimensional and vulnerable.)
Originally posted by The Vagabond
I hate to keep leaning on the same book, but it really was brilliant- in "Combat Team" Col. Antal proposes that using lone combined arms companies for deep operations could allow America to force battle on Korean tanks and artillery in the rear areas, allowing for the rapid destruction of whole batallions from just one little company team sized raid.
I think I buy that. Rather than one huge battle I believe we would see almost nightly fair-sized ones in which American tanks attempted to whittle down Korean reserves and logistical capabilities. Really the only question at all would be "can North Korea attain sufficient battlefield awareness to stop American tanks on the move. If yes, they can get us off the peninsula and we'll have to come in fresh with lots of force. If no, our reinforcements may not even get there in time to get their share of the action.
Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Just wanted to point out, should an all out war break out between the US and North Korea:
North Korea:
Military manpower - availability:
males age 15-49: 6,181,038 (2004 est.)
(only a little over 3mil are fit for service)
United States:
Military manpower - availability:
males age 15-49: 73,597,731 (2004 est.)
Say you cut 20-50 million for those unfit for duty. You'd still end up with at least 4 times more manpower available than Korea.
Originally posted by The Vagabond
If America needed 73,000,000 soldiers it would be the end of the world as we know it. 73 million people is what we've got to throw at them if our very existence is threatened
Originally posted by WestPoint23
We have 300Million people but can barely muster 2mil, sad sad day in amercing history if only we could have another great Generation like the one we had during WWII. Either that or we have a draft its our own fault for not doing our duties for the armed forces.
Originally posted by Broadsword20068
America is having a hard enough time getting troops for Iraq at the moment. We aren't going to do anything with N. Korea for awhile. It is to the point where technicians, clerks, cooks, etc....are having to pick up a rifle and go on patrol in Iraq. This is why Army Basic Training has been changed a lot, including a lot more hand-to-hand combat training, a lot more training with the rifle, a lot of simulated Iraq training, kicking in doors, etc....America isn't heading to N.K. anytime soon.