The Minutemen: an idea long overdue

Gazrok, they would just build tunnels. I like the way you think though.

Hurray for the Minutemen,

I just read the Minutemen are triggering sensors in the ground that are designed to catch undocumented workers...

Hahaha I bet these sensors go off all the time due to animals and etc.. Border Patrol agents probably know that animals set them off more than anything and all the while they sit in there air cooled truck eating doughnuts. Those Federal Border Patrol agents are not doing the job good enough, there is enough proof of that anyway lol.

I would join the Minutemen if it was in my state, Maybe it will catch on this way ... I don't need no gun to patrol the border hehe....

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
Byrd, don't you think that is already happening. Here is part of the text of a documentary to be aired on CNN April 17th. CNN PRESENTS has produced a one-hour documentary that is focused on the state of Georgia, illegal aliens and the consequences of their colonizing our republic.

"Colonizing our republic?" An odd choice of words.

I'm here in Texas and I'm afraid that I don't see much colonizing by Mexico here. We have a lot of Hispanics, but you can tell from their accents that they're Americans, just like myself. Colonizing indicates they're coming in here, taking over our legal and social systems

KING: This is the house directly across the street from our home. A big family of six moved in and I found out that they were from Mexico. And I was very excited because I'm a fudia (ph).

Interesting story, and a good example of how cultures clash. The Hispanic community tends to be closed against outsiders (as do many White communities) with a period of "warming up." What many Southerners consider "good social manners" (introductions early, invitations) is considered shockingly rude in other cultures (including some... such as the Navajo... here in the US.)

And I wonder if the lack of action was because these were legal US citizens. Having worked with Housing Authorities and with the police, I'm aware that most illegals do NOT behave like this family. Illegals are here to work, and they know that these kinds of shenannagans make you a high profile target.

It's not *impossible* that they're illegals, but they're behaving more like they're US citizens.

People are calling in to report violations all over the country and very little is done about it.

Actually, what I'm talking about is hitting them where they work. Shutting down the AMERICANS who are bringing these people in and offering them jobs. It's not as effective to go after the individual illegals when you can go after an American Employer who is the SOURCE of the problem.

It's the American Employers who are choosing to hire illegals. The government has laws against this and fines and so forth, but until someone turns a business in for their practices, the government doesn't find out about it.

Americans are losing their jobs and are tired of paying for illegal immigration.

And that's why I think it's silly to go chasing down individuals instead of investigating businesses AND starting jobs programs to get American citizens into these jobs that the illegals are taking over.

They won't stop coming until American EMPLOYERS quit hiring them.

Byrd, Do you consider it to be unmanly to take a stand on your principles?

Yes. I do.

Sex has nothing to do with principles. A woman can take a stand on her principles and it doesn't make her "manly" or "womanly"; it makes her a principled person.

Furthermore, if the principles aren't allowing the person to examine the SOURCE of the problem and to take action within what society permits, then those principles aren't worth a hoot.

I do, however, think that our current description of "manliness" often provokes some rather silly behaviors from people (as does the idea of "womanliness".) And in this case, I believe what other scholars indicate; that this group has a certain concept of "manliness" and they prize this fairly aggressive image and tend to fall back on the "cowboy" mentality in trying to solve social problems.

If they had a concept of "manliness" that included "intellectualism and scholarship" perhaps they'd address the root of the problem instead of running around like a cat trying to chase a roomfull of mice.

Gazrok, they would just build tunnels. I like the way you think though.

Oh, you can bury mines too you know...

And routine inspection of the fence and minefield could easily be done by the existing number of border patrol agents. Sensors could also be used to supplement. I just don't see the flaw in this idea....

Originally posted by ms_Bhavn
Hello BYRDE
I live in Texas too. And if the problem would be solved by people snitching on employers for hiring illegals then we wouldn't have a problem ....would we...? People don't usually turn in employers.

Agreed.

And alot of the illegals acquire false ID's... ss#, etc. so they look legal. The employer says I thought they were legal...

Actually, that's generally not true for the Mexicans. And yeah, employers will lie like that when they're caught. WalMart found out the hard way that this ain't no excuse at all.

Years back my husband applied for an auto loan, his credit was checked it came up on the computer that he was already purchashing a new truck, in North Texas. His ss# was being used.

You're aware, I hope, that most identity theft is a fairly high tech operation and that the real thieves are often Americans or Russians (who are in their own countries.)

You've seen the recent news about credit card numbers being hacked, right, and the news about Phishing? Those are all high-tech, First World thieves and few of them (except the Americans) are actually here in the US.

Identity theft is not new with them......I applaud the minute men. It's American and patriotic to protect America and our way of life. If by their efforts they keep out one murderer, one load of drugs, one terrorist, one rapist....then isn't it worth it????

They'd do far better if they'd stay home and start social programs.

If they want to keep violent offenders and murderers off the streets, then they should start some programs to teach kids (boys, particularly) nonviolence. They should start being Big Brothers and taking on other types of civic volunteering, including joining the auxillary police force and doing ride-alongs and helping the cops in other ways. They should help out with sports programs.

If they want to keep drugs out, they should help out with anti-drug campaigns in their own cities. If they want to stop rapists, then they need to get involved in a positive way with the MALE anti-rape campaigns.

If they want to stop terrorists, then they should be involving themselves with civil security programs... not running around like a bunch of out-of-control kids playing cowboys and indians.

Open the paper and look at the statistics. Here's the stats for Ft. Worth: www.fortworthpd.com...


Guess how many of those crimes were committed by illegals.
The answer is: almost none.

Guess how many were committed by legal US citizens.
The answer is: almost all.

If they're so concerned about their communities, why aren't they doing something about THESE problems? Why aren't they working in their home cities for the people they love?

Why aren't they helping troubled kids find jobs... the ones that these illegals take?

It will take a lot to clean a town up. It's a lot easier to run down to the border and round up a handful of illegals and then ride back home going, "woot! look at me!! gimme a medal! I saved all the wimmin and chickenz!!!"

How about a hand for the REAL heroes -- the citizens of your own town who don't go running off playing cowboy, but instead spend their time with:

Neighborhood Watch (one of the best ways of preventing crime)
www.weprevent.org...

www.bbbsa.org...

www.citizencorps.gov...

www.secondharvest.org...

A lot of ATS mods support this one:
www.whiteribboncampaign.co.uk...

www.menendingrape.org...

www.americorps.gov...

www.citizencorps.gov...

Every dollar those dime-store cowboys spent on getting down to play "guardian" at the border could have done a lot more good in their own communities, applied to those and other programs that their communities NEED. So if they're so civic minded, why aren't they doing that instead of spending their money pretending to be border cops?

Byrd, I'd have to say that you are way out of touch on this issue. Get a grip. We have millions of illegals crossing the border with very little assistance from the fed and you suggest people help manage their local ball club. What you say is nice and all but it is not going significantly reduce the problems associated with illegal immigration. Controlling the border should be priority one.

And would you please prove to me how the minutemen are out of control. Sitting in lawn chairs and calling in sightings of illegals crossing the border to the border patrol is not out of control.

Byrd
Actually, what I'm talking about is hitting them where they work. Shutting down the AMERICANS who are bringing these people in and offering them jobs. It's not as effective to go after the individual illegals when you can go after an American Employer who is the SOURCE of the problem.

To bad the governmnet is not providing funding for the manpower required to tackle this issue.

As you read this, there is only one INS agent assigned to the entire state of Alabama. That fact greatly disturbs Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions, who complained about his state’s lack of protection against illegal aliens in a recent letter to INS Commissioner Doris Meissner. “A number of law enforcement officials have contacted me in recent weeks and related the difficulties they encounter in addressing the crime problem caused by illegal aliens,” the letter ran. “The fact that Alabama has only one special [INS] agent is astonishing and clearly inadequate, particularly considering that there are 2,088 special agents nationwide.”

Sesssions’ letter was prompted by his contact with Blount County Sheriff Larry Staton, who confirmed for him that 123 of the 500 arrests his department made last year were foreign nationals with fraudulent documents. Sessions noted that police and district attorneys across the state have been contacting him for help in dealing with illegal aliens.

The INS does have six Border Patrol officers in Alabama, who work out of Mobile. In 1999, they apprehended 3,292 illegal aliens in Alabama. Although Border Patrol officers can investigate crimes committed by illegal aliens, that job usually falls to INS special agents.

The Senator’s letter of complaint earned him a meeting with the INS, at which Michael Pearson, executive associate commissioner for field operations, told him that a second agent would soon be sent to Birmingham and that a third might be detailed to Mobile “on a trial basis.”

The INS’s response hasn’t satisfied Sessions. “We think this is unacceptable,” he said, speaking on behalf of Alabamans. “On a per capita basis, we probably should have 300 agents. It gives some indication how they have ignored Alabama. We’ve got a problem there.”

A recent incident in which a 19-year-old illegal alien has been charged with rape at an Alabama beach has heightened tensions over INS’s neglect of the state. “The ability of these illegal aliens to commit such crimes in my state is directly related to the lack of federal law enforcement officers in the field in Alabama,” Sessions said.

Article

2 INS agents for the entire state. How are they going to be able to investigate all of the calls that they recieve about illegals? The bottom line is they can't. This basically leads to non-enforcement of immigration laws.

manliness

n : the trait of being manly; having the characteristics of an adult male

I would say that sticking up for ones rights and or family rights is a manly trait.

Its a rough world and most of the time scholars get run over by the real world.

They'd do far better if they'd stay home and start social programs.
If they want to stop terrorists, then they should be involving themselves with civil security programs... not running around like a bunch of out-of-control kids playing cowboys and indians.

Byrd

I think you have failed to see the point of the Minutemen organizers.

There is social programs that have been around for years (which have failed) and are a waste of tax dollars.
Who wants to pay for a social program for uneducated illegals and etc.... Not I ...lol

The Minutemen are not kids playing cowboys and Indians. Its a political protest of our Governments failures of illegal immigration, drug smuggling and possible terrorist activities etc..... Obviously the protest is a smart move because of the media coverage.

Originally posted by Byrd
It will take a lot to clean a town up. It's a lot easier to run down to the border and round up a handful of illegals and then ride back home going, "woot! look at me!! gimme a medal! I saved all the wimmin and chickenz!!!"

I proceeded to wet my pants after reading that.

So if they're so civic minded, why aren't they doing that instead of spending their money pretending to be border cops?

Because they're rednecks. That's what rednecks like to do.



I don't want to hear from anybody about bashing rednecks. I'm from Texas and I have extensive knowledge about rednecks and their redneck ways.
SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!

Peace

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
Byrd, I'd have to say that you are way out of touch on this issue. Get a grip. We have millions of illegals crossing the border with very little assistance from the fed and you suggest people help manage their local ball club. What you say is nice and all but it is not going significantly reduce the problems associated with illegal immigration. Controlling the border should be priority one.

And not stopping the businesses that are hiring illegals?? And not getting US citizens into jobs? What good is it to try and cut off the flow of illegals when the jobs demanding them are still there?

And would you please prove to me how the minutemen are out of control. Sitting in lawn chairs and calling in sightings of illegals crossing the border to the border patrol is not out of control.

They'd do a lot more good if they'd take their lawn chairs back to their communities and participate in neighborhood crime watches. One alert neighbor can do a lot to reduce crime for the WHOLE neighborhood.

But they're not doing that.

They're wrapping themselves in a flag of patriotism, leaving their communities, and running off elsewhere to "solve the problem!"

Originally posted by XPhiles
Byrd
I think you have failed to see the point of the Minutemen organizers.

I'd argue that you fail to see how simplistic (and ineffective) their answer is.

The Minutemen are not kids playing cowboys and Indians. Its a political protest of our Governments failures of illegal immigration, drug smuggling and possible terrorist activities etc.

By people who aren't addressing the things that cause the problem.

This is like saying you're going to cure cancer by putting bandaids on top of the tumors.

You can't stop the illegals till you stop the SOURCE of the problem. Get rid of drug dealers (US citizens), employers who hire illegal aliens (US citizens), and get our people into job programs and jobs.

We need to focus our attention on what causes this.

.... Obviously the protest is a smart move because of the media coverage.

Is it?

A protest is only effective if it results in change.

I haven't seen any indication that the hiring practices are changing here in the States. And I'd bet that the drugs (a separate issue from illegals) haven't changed, either.

Patroling the boarder is a sure way to stop illegal immigration. This is because it will stop ilegals from entering the country. The idea is very simple, i'm sure you can understand....

quote: Years back my husband applied for an auto loan, his credit was checked it came up on the computer that he was already purchashing a new truck, in North Texas. His ss# was being used.

You're aware, I hope, that most identity theft is a fairly high tech operation and that the real thieves are often Americans or Russians (who are in their own countries.) You've seen the recent news about credit card numbers being hacked, right, and the news about Phishing? Those are all high-tech, First World thieves and few of them (except the Americans) are actually here in the US.

Oops, there Byrd, you forgot the recent raid here in Dallas trying to shut down the fake ID shops Investigators Raid Fake ID Factories

That was only the lttle "Novelty" ID's, head on over to OakCliff or even over on Harry Hines, and you will be able to find a number of people who will be willing to sell you either real or fake SS cards, fake visa, as well as fake ID cards.
You can even purchase REAL SS cards, VISAS, Driver's Licenses if you are will to pay a price of up to $5000 by using some questionable lawyers.

Originally posted by kenshiro2012

You can even purchase REAL SS cards, VISAS, Driver's Licenses if you are will to pay a price of up to $5000 by using some questionable lawyers.

And there in lies a huge problem. The people that arrange for the sale of those real SS cars, DL's and yes SS as I have heard some are hispanics here legally using our system against us. (I want to make it very clear I have just heard that some are) I have no concrete evidence to prove it though. If I did I would raise all kind of hell to get them fired and deported.

Anyone that would misuses the naturalization process illegally should loose their citizenship if you ask me.

I too like Gaz's idea, but unfortunately many countries have outlawed the use of land mines

And not stopping the businesses that are hiring illegals?? And not getting US citizens into jobs? What good is it to try and cut off the flow of illegals when the jobs demanding them are still there?

Now how are they going to stop business from hiring illegals in alabama with 2 INS agents. It is pretty much the same way all around the country. Come on Byrd you are smarter than that.

You can't stop the illegals till you stop the SOURCE of the problem. Get rid of drug dealers (US citizens), employers who hire illegal aliens (US citizens), and get our people into job programs and jobs.

So you are saying get rid of (US citizens)? lol

Byrd

I think you have failed to see the SOURCE.

The SOURCE starts once the lines have been crossed. Most US drug dealers are supplied from outside US SOURCEs such as Mexico. Although I agree with you on

employers who hire illegal aliens (US citizens),

But I wouldn't call employers the SOURCE. The illegals know they are breaking the rules and deceive employers on there US citizenship for jobs etc.... The SOURCE is illegals, yes! its that simple lol.....

Again,

The protest is a smart move because of the media coverage.

if your Latin American this may help below lol.....

pro·test Audio pronunciation of "protest" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-tst, pr-, prtst)
v. pro·test·ed, pro·test·ing, pro·tests
# A formal declaration of disapproval or objection issued by a concerned person, group, or organization.
# An individual or collective gesture or display of disapproval.
the act of making a strong public expression of disagreement and disapproval;

Byrd,
you are right on the money, regarding everything you've said in this thread. It scares me that reality isn't reality to so many people. Thanks, for your dose of sanity.

Originally posted by XPhiles
The protest is a smart move because of the media coverage.

pro·test Audio pronunciation of "protest" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-tst, pr-, prtst)
v. pro·test·ed, pro·test·ing, pro·tests
# A formal declaration of disapproval or objection issued by a concerned person, group, or organization.
# An individual or collective gesture or display of disapproval.
the act of making a strong public expression of disagreement and disapproval;

What's taking place on our southern border is as much a political statement as a call to action. Hopefully Washington will seize the initiative.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by XPhiles
Byrd
I think you have failed to see the point of the Minutemen organizers.

I'd argue that you fail to see how simplistic (and ineffective) their answer is.


You can't stop the illegals till you stop the SOURCE of the problem. Get rid of drug dealers (US citizens), employers who hire illegal aliens (US citizens), and get our people into job programs and jobs.

We need to focus our attention on what causes this.

Yes we do and it is not US citizens that are causing the problem it is illegals crossing the border illegally.

Byrd, I realize you want to blame it on the employers, but that is a lame excuse. How on earth can you expect someone who employees people to know the documents that are indeed the real thing, when they were created by other hispanics who support illegal entry by using their position only to issue real documents knowingly to illegals?

That may not make sense to you, but there have been several cases where it has been proven the legal documents were obtained under false pretenses by paying off other hispanics.

You make it sound like they should be able to tell who arranged to issue a legal document. That as you know or should know is impossible.

Wowie gosh.

Minutemen patrolling our border to keep illegals out and cure all the problems here in the US. And of course they don't want to participate in programs with the law enforcement in their own cities. After all, they KNOW what the real problem is.

Minutemen -- ensuring that all our criminals are All American Criminals (not stopping them, mind you... just making sure that we only get robbed and beaten and shot by Americans.) Making sure that all the drug dealers on our streets are All American Drug Dealers! Making sure that all those shootings over in the neighborhood to the west are All American Shootings!

Just like they ALWAYS were!

And they'll continue to be All American Crimes, thanks to the efforts of the Minutemen who are sitting on the border, staring into the distance, making your schools and soccer fields safe for the All American Bullies!

(snif) Kinda makes your lil' heart go pittypat, doesn't it?