You're right,

but that the new SU is having a new kind of engine is (I think) sure.
They mentioned on the news that there is some new kind of engine for airplanes and that it will be used on an airplane.
The precise info we will know after some 10 years.

Carcharodon, I don't think you have an idea what Russia now has in it's arsenal.
(I don't care if it's American but with a little difference).

The Russians made a computer that can fire from the SU at 6 targets at the same time and can detect and recognise over 10.000nds of objects (in a second or something like that).

The SU's are usen in much countries, but why is the F-16 not usen in much countries?, because it's probably less realible, The SU's are also standing for realability.
And that the F-22 is the best , It isn't even made yet!

I think that the SU doesn't has less capabilities than American airplanes.

Are you serious about your claims on the F-16? It is the most widely operated fighter aircraft in the world today.

without the aid of any reference material I can name among its operators

USA
Norway
Denmark
Holland
Italy
Poland
UAE
Israel
Thailand
Pakistan
Singapore
Chile
Indonesia
and Jordan.

Not many countries?

[edit on 30-3-2007 by waynos]

Originally posted by Ilija
And that the F-22 is the best , It isn't even made yet!

I think that the SU doesn't has less capabilities than American airplanes.

umm the F-22 is in full production and waiting on its first block upgrade in the next 2 years or so. As for capabilities its been argueed over and over on these forums and you'll get a different answer from everyone.

Welcome to ATS and the Aviation forums

I heard that at least 20 countries are using the SU.

Here are some:

Ukraine
Belarus
China
Kazakhstan
Vietnam
Malaysia
Indonesia
Angola
Mexican-Navy

Yeah, the F-16 is one of the most used airplanes ( and it's a good one), but more countries use the SU, at least, that's what they're telling on tv.

But,all I wanted to say is that the Russians have systems, including stealth radardetection, that can surpass the f-22, and that they aren't old on technology. Russia is currently leading with rocket technology,
so I think that the PAK-FA will have some advanced rockets on it.

Originally posted by waynos
Are you serious about your claims on the F-16? It is the most widely operated fighter aircraft in the world today.

Without the aid of any reference material I can name among its operators

USA
Norway
Denmark
Holland
Italy
Poland
UAE
Israel
Thailand
Pakistan
Singapore
Chile
Indonesia
and Jordan.

Not many countries?

[edit on 30-3-2007 by waynos]

And adding to that ( w/o any aid too I might add! ):

Taiwan
South Korea
Turkey
Venezuela

Did we miss out on any more?


Su-27 variants( boy this w/o aid bit is fun! ):

Russia
China
India
Malaysia
Eritrea
Somalia?
Venezuela*
Indonesia*
Mexico*


*Yet to be inducted

Edit: Algeria*

[edit on 30-3-2007 by Daedalus3]

by rockets i think he means missiles

Ilija, I can see you are new here so you don't know my standpoint so I will spell it out for you.

I'm not particulary bothered about keeping a score, only in correcting wrong information when I see it. I was just responding to your post that the F-16 was not widely used. It clearly is.

Overall I have no doubt that the Flanker is a more capable aircraft than the F-16. However they are also in a different class to each other so its not a fair comparison.

I also feel that the Flanker and Typhoon (the fighter of my own country - UK) are pretty evenly matched overall (in the latest versions of Sukhoi's finest) with the Flanker holding some advantages in agility, but the Typhoon having advantages in systems.

I am certain however that both trail some way behind the F-22 except in areas of systems sophistication (Typhoon) and manouverability (TVC Flanker models) In all other areas the F-22 has advantages of varying degrees (eg BVR capability)

However overall, the Pak Fa will do very well indeed if it manages to achieve the Raptors sophistication in stealth and overall capability package.

One thing the Flanker series does have in its favour though is that ity is the most cost effective fighter available in the world today, and by quite a margin.

Welcome to the forum - the search facility is your friend.

[edit on 30-3-2007 by waynos]

You're right. I don't have to say anything more to that information, and thank you.

[edit on 30-3-2007 by Ilija]

Originally posted by waynos
Ilija, I can see you are new here so you don't know my standpoint so I will spell it out for you.

You will find my view on this subject is also very close to what waynos has said.

Overall I have no doubt that the Flanker is a more capable aircraft than the F-16. However they are also in a different class to each other so its not a fair comparison.

To myself this is a key point as the Mig-29 was built as the adversary to the F-16. The Flanker was geared more towards the F-15 and some on here argue that it fills more of the role that the F-15E was tasked to.

I am certain however that both trail some way behind the F-22 except in areas of systems sophistication (Typhoon)

Just wondering waynos won't this lack in the current production model be brought up to par if not bettered then the Typhoon in the first planed block upgrade to the current F-22s?

However overall, the Pak Fa will do very well indeed if it manages to achieve the Raptors sophistication in stealth and overall capability package.

And I'll add my own personal comment I have been say for 3 years now show me anything other then paper and i'll start to believe you. Then show me a production aircraft and I'll rate it on scale to the F-22 that it opposes. An underlying note that by the time the Pak Fa actually flies most of the US arsenal will be upgrade and the US will be looking to the 6th Generation of planes. Pure openion but as it stands right now that is mine not yours.

One thing the Flanker series does have in its favour though iws that ity is the most cost effective fighter available in the world today, and by quite a margin.

And thats no small feat! So in that catigory the US better rain in the huge budget overspending of the F-35 series if its going to be cost effective.

Just wondering waynos won't this lack in the current production model be brought up to par if not bettered then the Typhoon in the first planed block upgrade to the current F-22s?

Well, its not just the Typhoon that is having its capabilities enhanced gradually once it has entered service, the F-22 also follows the same path, as does any new fighter entering service.

In fact much of the systems on board both aircraft\ are to the same specs and built by the same suppliers (indeed BAE are a major systems supplier on the F-22), that's why I feel they are roughly the same. If anything the F-22 will reach optimum capability first, if only because the USAF has more money to throw at it while the UK budget demands a more gradual approach, but the technology is the same. It is only in the airframe itself where the F-22 has a technological lead, UK budget restraints notwithstanding, it is only funding, not ability, that prevents current Typhoons from having AESA and TVC.

"And I'll add my own personal comment I have been say for 3 years now show me anything other then paper and i'll start to believe you. Then show me a production aircraft and I'll rate it on scale to the F-22 that it opposes. An underlying note that by the time the Pak Fa actually flies most of the US arsenal will be upgrade and the US will be looking to the 6th Generation of planes. Pure openion but as it stands right now that is mine not yours."

I'm not sure if it's right, but the rumor goes that Russia already has papers of a 6th generation airplane. They cooperated with China to make a software for a non-pilot vehicle (in this case: airplane). But it's too expensive to completely finish and build prototypes. They say that Russia will wait untill 2020 before building a prototype, it has something to do with materials.

This could be not true ( however I belive it slightly). Even the fact that a 5th generation airplane isn't build don't bothers me. I think that Russia is capable of jumping one generation furhter, that MAY also explain why the PAK-FA isn't flying, they invest in the 6th generation airplane.

A friend of my told this to me after watching some rumor program that looks at documents and things that happened.

Remember, it's just a rumor, no one can confirm this a 100%.

[edit on 30-3-2007 by Ilija]

[edit on 30-3-2007 by Ilija]

Originally posted by Ilija
but that the new SU is having a new kind of engine is (I think) sure.
They mentioned on the news that there is some new kind of engine for airplanes and that it will be used on an airplane.

The Sukhoi PAK-FA is slated to have either the AL-41 engine or a derivative of it. Nothing super-advanced is actually rumoured to be under investigation by Lyulka/Saturn for the PAK-FA, so I doubt anything absolutely revolutionary will come out of it.

Originally posted by Ilija
I'm not sure if it's right, but the rumor goes that Russia already has papers of a 6th generation airplane. They cooperated with China to make a software for a non-pilot vehicle (in this case: airplane). But it's too expensive to completely finish and build prototypes. They say that Russia will wait untill 2020 before building a prototype, it has something to do with materials.

First of Ilija if you need a hand understanding the quote tool I'll be glad to help eh. Dont take any insult to this because it honestly took a couple months when I first started posting to understand its function etc. If you want the help just say yes and I'll U2U you (also will explain this if nessary) I now how much there is to learn on here and anything I can do to help let me know eh.

On to the subject it is an interesting idea for a UAV but it is still a paper airplane. further on in your post you also mention that Russia may jump the 5th generation of planes is an interesting one but scince no one on these forums knows what a 6th gen plane will look like and its extreme speculation its hard for me to take Russia seriously when they say that or hint at it.

Remember, it's just a rumor, no one can confirm this a 100%.

I agree no one can confirm that they have even talked like this or at least no one has yet. If you could provide links to where the Russian R&D people hint at this that would be at least something right? It is just rumour but thanks for sharing your take on it and until people provide links its word vs word.

[edit on 30-3-2007 by Ilija]

[edit on 30-3-2007 by Ilija]

Hold it everybody..
Nobody is jumping the 5th gen..
Any links on the 6th gen UCAV a/c and the chinese collaboration?
Find all that a bit iffy.

I posted it, because people are talking really seriously about it on television, and for so far I know (I searched) you wont find anything on the internet.

With all the problems countires like the States UK and France have been having (Polecat/Barracuda). Its no wonder Russia wants to wait.... till some other country gets one that they can reengineer and see how the US fixes their problems.