Originally posted by muzzleflash
IQ scores are nothing but memorization exams

Completely false.

I administer subsets of various intelligence tests to children and adults for a living. I work on a research project. I am not a clinical psychologist, so I am not licensed to administer any test for clinical purposes.

There are some subtests which require the subject to recall actual information or facts, such as the definition of words or some procedural knowledge. These are merely subtests, so they would in no way determine the entire IQ score or even a majority of it.

Good IQ tests are largely tests of fluid intelligence - problem solving, formal processes without requiring any previous knowledge. One of the best, most reliable measures of fluid intelligence is the Raven's Progressive Matricies, which is a completely non-verbal test.

Most online IQ tests are simply laughable. I've seen some that are actually multiple choice questions about trivia. These are not reliable measures. Good IQ tests take years of research to develop and they need to be standardized for the population.

Unless you have been tested by a licensed clinician on a standardized measure, do not trust your "IQ score".

Also, it is not the case that those with high IQ scores (2 standard deviations above the mean, or 130-140+) necessarily have any sort of concurrent mental or social problems. I don't know of any study showing a higher incidence of any disorder in this population. If I am mistaken, please provide the reference.

As far as how highly intelligent people "think", I don't know. It's almost an impossible question to answer. Any kind of data that is collected on how someone "thinks" is going to be self-reported and suspect. How can someone describe how they think in any objective way? In relation to what?

To score higher than average on an IQ test, one just needs to be a bit higher along the continuum of ability. Higher working memory capacity, higher spatial ability and higher verbal ability will translate to a higher IQ score. I suspect that it's simply a quantitative difference rather than a qualitative one. People that tend to score higher on IQ tests don't have a different brain and they don't use different parts or use it in a different way. Processes simply work more efficiently.

I doubt that their thought is qualitatively different. But, I have no way of knowing either way. Don't trust anyone who says they know, either.

phaedrus

[edit on 5-4-2005 by phaedrusxxx]

IQ doesn't mean squat. I have a PhD in chemistry, I've worked in Argonne National Labs, Texas A & M, and some other places. EVERY place I have worked the people who I have been the MOST impressed with have been the technicians, most of whom don't even have college degrees.

Perhaps I can add a few more wrinkles to this.
My IQ is in the genius range and I feel very different from 'the common person'. I feel that I think while the majority of people act on emotions and instincts like animals. I have very, very little patience with the stupid-average types. I feel like Mr. Spock in a sea of 3 year olds.

Of course this does not mean that I don't respect different kinds of intelligence. I have a friend who's a hairdresser and has self proclaimed 'ADD'. I tend to agree with this, because she doesn't read or write well. I helped her toss out her couch recently and she pointed out the worn cushions. I said: Why didn't you just flip them over? She replied that she'd never thought of that.
Hey, she cuts hair like Vidal Sasson, I don't care if she's not a mental whiz. She's funny too.

Here's another point to consider: Try being a female genius! People assume that women are stupid, you are always fighting an uphill battle. It doesn't help that I am rather good looking. People equate that with stupidity as well.

I am very much a loner, very un-emotional, this is my biggest gripe with the commoners: they are way, way, too emotional. Logic is above all else to me. Of course I am an atheist as well: To me, religion is silly; a belief in an "Imaginary Friend". I believe all religion should be banned, its ridiculous. Of course, I believe in individual rights, but I would like religious ideology kept OUT of the public sphere.

As far as thought processes, I think very quickly. I scan read, I understand (and have education in) complex math and physics. Like others posted here, I can make connections between broad ideas and concepts quickly. I too have never really had to "study"- I can take tests and pass them easily with no prep. I too have trouble sleeping: the mind just goes and goes.

Being smart is not what its cracked up to be. You are alienated from the common people, people dislike you and are jealous, workplaces exploit you, men dislike smart women, the list goes on ad infinitum. There's a reason Homer Simpson stuck that crayon back up his nose, no?

To those who feel the intelligent think just like everybody else, I would disagree. I think the average function like a bureaucratic rutting animal, the intelligent like a computer and Imax theater combined. Being smart is not easy, but I would not trade it for anything. As a matter of fact, if I were brain damaged-even slightly-I would want to be euthanized.

Originally posted by KyleChemist
IQ doesn't mean squat. I have a PhD in chemistry, I've worked in Argonne National Labs, Texas A & M, and some other places. EVERY place I have worked the people who I have been the MOST impressed with have been the technicians, most of whom don't even have college degrees.

Then what you meant is that college degrees don't mean squat.

phaedrus

I dont have a clue what my IQ is anymore but it was good enough to get me in the gifted program at school and was told I exceled in math and science which proved true later when I finally got the chance use my brain in high school calc and physics. Never had to study and did the homework right before classes while the other aces in the class were constantly talking about how much studying and how time consuming the
homework was, I kept my study habits quiet and pointed out their mistakes.

I have wasted my time in college though, I can't stick to a program, I got an AA that is useless and just wished I would have got a simple certificate for something like a Medical Transcriptionist so I would not have a problem finding decent job for the rest of my college career, no waiting tables for me, if you cant tell by the tone of my posts I am not a people person and cannot hiss some butts on a daily basis. I am about ready to take my excellent card counting method to the casino and with a little luck get a nice payout.

As far as thinking different than other people I have to go with hell yeah I do. I can speed read with good accuracy but Ill get bored and scan through stuff often and miss out on important stuff, this goes with grammar mistakes when I write, I know what meant so when I scan through what I wrote I just will not see the mistakes. I have a good enough 'flash' memory that helps for quizzes and card counting but wont get me a high paying job. I can visualize math problems very well, for a while had some skill of graphing familiar 3D equations in my head and subjects like basic Calculus just clicked right when I saw it and I didnt realize at first that it is so fuzzy to others.

I guess I have a decent range of knowledge too. Though genius is much more than knowing facts and calculating numbers, just watch Rainman and if you think the movie is unrealistic then you should know that character was based on a real person.

Well, I range from a 150-170, according to many tests, yet I don't consider myself to be anywhere near being a genius. I excell in every subject at school, yes, but that's because I have great memorization skills, and most of my talent corresponds with mathematics. I have a knack for picking up very quickly in math.

As for me, myself, I'm very strong willed but I'm also very emotional. It's an intricate balance between being able to control one thing and being controlled by another. I'm social, as in having good friends, and a lot of casual aquaintances, yet, I still find myself lacking the amount of friends that can talk about life and what not.

I'd also like to add that I don't exactly fit the nerd stereotype. I'm 6'1" and weigh 260 lbs. and play waterpolo (got 2nd at states). So yeah.

I suggest that anyone who posts scores also posts date of testing, name of test, version of test, and certification of the tester.

phaedrus

Then what you meant is that college degrees don't mean squat.

phaedrus

I don't know if I would go THAT far, all I'm saying is that, in my career, the people I have learned the most from, been the most impressed with, and gotten along with best, have been people WITHOUT college degrees. So a college degree may be right for some people, but not right for others.

As far as this whole IQ thing goes. I graduated from one of the top universities in the nation, I have a Ph.D in chemistry, several scientific publications in peer reviewed journals, many awards from scientific societies for outstanding achievment, I've worked at Argonne National Labs and several other top research facilities, and have a well paying job in the science field. Yet EVERY standardizd/IQ test I have EVER taken says I'm below average/dumb. I was alomst held back in the fourth grade for dong so poorly on my states standardized test! How is this possible? Having a high IQ is great, kudos to those who do. But a strong work ethic, and the desire, determination, and dedication to succeed will outdo some scores on a test any day of the week.

[edit on 7-4-2005 by KyleChemist]

The one common theme I have observed in here is that most of these self-anointed genii can scarcely string a sentence together correctly. Also, the spelling is generally quite atrocious.

The true genius also lists humility amongst his positive qualities.

They think with momentum. Talent is essentially momentum. It is possible to build talent.

ahh a thread for those who want to give themselves a pat on the back for having a high IQ and say how special they are but they're no different my last administered IQ test was quite a few years ago (a proper one by the government in relations to adv classes in school) and i got 142. do i care about it? no way IQ is crap anyway you cant measure ppl's intelligence's with a stupid test i know ppl who have got much lower than me but are better and smarter at some things than i am. i'm no different to other people, i'm as self-centred and stubborn as everyone else, i think a false sense of superiority that this test breeds is detrimental to evry1.



drfunk

IQ test's i believe is nothing more then style of thinking test.
Alot of people have differenent patterns of thinking. True genius predict's outcomes using certain ways of though. That's what a genius is, he just has good thinking system that fit's perfectly into the world. Super genius could most likely tell the future.

So in order words IQ test's don't measure, god likely mind's. But are more like are ruler of the currect knowleage systems. But it's most lilely god like mind's know the currect knowleage systems. Some high IQ might not even have god like mind's. We all seek truth and some how all these methods of thinking just don't fit the equation, so we gotta keep using trial and error until things start to make sense.

This why most inteligent people are very depressed, they are always walking out of one reality and looking for another. Were someone people just are just happy in their born reality. Kinda like the movie in the matrix, everyone in the system is happy and don't want know what's really going on.

So in order word's i see god like mind's as a computer program that has very complicated if and esle, variables and while system that keep's on updating and adding and removing and perfect it's thinking system until the day they find truth. Most people, have structure their mind's into a standard soical system, some people have hybrid method's, some strange, but when you look at them, most are never updated and changed, most just keep on using the same system, and their lives follow a pattern that goes in circles. Ignorance is the word.

The guy that said, in the army they take out inteligent people. Well the army is nothing more then heap of pawn's controled by a few mind's. Soilder are not think. Of course the state will dumb down the people in order to make them serve for their interests.

Anyway great mind's i think desire.
They also can tell if it's moral, justice and truth.
Unlike the leader's of today, who have distored eveything and have made themselves that belive they are serving the great mind, by lieing to themselves,

Morality, justice and truth. What esle could one want.

I don't know if I would go THAT far, all I'm saying is that, in my career, the people I have learned the most from, been the most impressed with, and gotten along with best, have been people WITHOUT college degrees. So a college degree may be right for some people, but not right for others.

As far as this whole IQ thing goes. I graduated from one of the top universities in the nation, I have a Ph.D in chemistry, several scientific publications in peer reviewed journals, many awards from scientific societies for outstanding achievment, I've worked at Argonne National Labs and several other top research facilities, and have a well paying job in the science field. Yet EVERY standardizd/IQ test I have EVER taken says I'm below average/dumb. I was alomst held back in the fourth grade for dong so poorly on my states standardized test! How is this possible? Having a high IQ is great, kudos to those who do. But a strong work ethic, and the desire, determination, and dedication to succeed will outdo some scores on a test any day of the week.

[edit on 7-4-2005 by KyleChemist]

I agree with what you are saying here. An IQ score can only predict so much of the variance in later outcomes, the rest of the variance comes from environment, motivation, and interests. So, I would agree with the statement that an IQ score can't predict everything. However, I do not think that motivation and work ethic alone will overcome a lack of intelligence. It all needs to be there, especially if you are to accomplish the types of things that you have.

If you took IQ tests/standardized tests, scored below average, and still did all of those things, then I would say that the tests were bad (poorly administered, poorly constructed, incorrectly scored). IQ tests should help predict exactly the kind of outcome that you are talking about, and generally they do - but not always.

I can see how you would have little faith in IQ tests, because the ones you took obviously didn't do their job. However, there is no perfect test. There is always measurement error.

However, if you had so many problems with standardized tests, how did you get into graduate school? Many graduate schools use the GRE as a criterion for admission, because if you use it to predict later success, it can account for much more variance than GPA can.

I have a lot of faith in intelligence tests when they are administered and scored properly by a professional, but it's interesting to me when they don't work. I want to know what happened - why did the test fail in this case. These kind of cases can be used to improve tests and make them more accurate. It doesn't mean that they are complete crap and should never be used. Even if intelligence tests work 99% of the time, that 1% can really add up.

phaedrus

[edit on 7-4-2005 by phaedrusxxx]

[edit on 7-4-2005 by phaedrusxxx]

Im in the 150's and no im not a genius at all, i guess i do compute information abit quicker but thats all. Emotionaly wise im fine, i get along well socialy. I know people with smaller iq's than me who i promise are much more intelligent.
Ideology wise, im a person with to much hope....to extreme and unrealistic in my views just because i can see the big picture and most others cant.
I/we are just normal people, who can put puzzles and spatial problems quikcer than most others big whoop...

Originally posted by TheTruth123

The guy that said, in the army they take out inteligent people. Well the army is nothing more then heap of pawn's controled by a few mind's. Soilder are not think.

Really? Is that true, or are you just making it up?

The test results of almost a half a million (472,539) U.S. military personnel were reported in 1984. IQ was used as a predictor for success in five domains of military training. Results were published as correlation coefficients between IQ and success in training. Results were .....

Job Type / Correlation with IQ
Mechanical +.62
Clerical +.58
Electronic +.67
General Technical +.62
COMBAT +.45

Combat training success, although the least correlated with IQ, was still .45. That means that IQ accounted for over 20% (.45 squared) of the variance in combat training success. That's a lot. Soldiers with higher IQs are going to have better training success. And you think that the "government" is going to take the better soldiers out of combat because they have higher IQs? I don't understand that.

Reference:

Hunter, J.E. and R. F. Hunter. 1984. Validity and utility of alternative predictors of job performance. Psychological Bulletin, 96: 72-98.

phaedrus

[edit on 7-4-2005 by phaedrusxxx]

[edit on 7-4-2005 by phaedrusxxx]

[edit on 7-4-2005 by phaedrusxxx]

I might have an inferiority complex I guess.I feel sometimes as though I am not a good enough person to have some of God's forgivingness. (sorry I am tired. i cant remember the right word lol)
I really started thinking for myself once I became christian, and I realized a lot of things, like that evolution doesnt really work out.

Originally posted by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy
How do geniuses with IQ's Of 140 - 200 think? How do you geniuses feel emotionally, socially, and what are your ideologies in life?
I would like to hear from posters who have official test results, and other forms of IQ test.



[edit on 113131p://444 by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy]

When I was in 8th grade, I had an IQ of 147. So I guess I count?

Emotionally? I feel every emotion hardcore. I can identify it, and I know exactly what I am feeling at any given time. I can also find ways to improve my emotions. I recently learned how to straighten them out without medication It's quite inspiring because now I know for the future. I been through depression most of my life, but that was because of the parenting I received. Other than that, I feel every emotion to probably its fullest potential, except anger. Why? I don't know.

Socially? In elementary school I was very social. I took an interest in the opposite sex in kindergarten. I never thought girls had cooties lol. I had straight A's throughout elementary and junior high school until the depression hampered most of my grades. I was also very scientific and tried to view things scientifically and had a love for learning how weather occured. Surprisingly, I watched alot of TV. I also played alot of board games from an early age, like Scrabble, Boggle, and games of that nature. Stimulating games. They appealed to me, and still do. Now since I am recovering from my depression, I am still a bit inclusive, but I am starting to find my way out once again.

Ideologies? I would consider myself a "free thinker". Possibly around Buddhist or the newer versions of Paganism. I believe in a higher power, reincarnation, karma, the exsistance of different astral planes, and I don't believe in Hell. I don't know if any religion really incorporates all this, but I go by the movie "Dogma". I dont really have certain beliefs, but I have ideas.

Anything else? Hmmm...just ask if you want to know things.

START EDIT:

I too have trouble sleeping. Think quick on my feet. And have a very fast and witty sense of humor. I passed the MENSA test, but I didn't want to pay for membership on something my brain did. It might be genetic in my opinion, because my uncle had an IQ in the 180s. He also pissed most of his life away, and recently got in a car accident and had major brain damage ;\ My mind races often, and I think logically and think through problems while most people react immediately. I guess I am different then some people with how my brain works. It's interesting to say the least. I am also not a nerd I am 6'9 220pds and played high school baseball, basketball, and one of the top bowlers in the state of Connecticut



EDIT: Incorporating things that are alike with others.

[edit on 4/8/2005 by spoodini]

[edit on 4/8/2005 by spoodini]

I'm not really sure what to make of your question. I like to think that I'm just like everyone else. Certainly I dwell on the same darn things. (Money and how to make it. Love and how to find it. Life and how to decipher it.)

I guess when it comes right down to it, I.Q. means precious little. The world is full of deadbeat geniuses and derelict "Einstein wannabes". Do yourself a favor and figure out how people who have REALLY SUCEEDED in your favorite fields of study think.

You wanna own a business? Learn to show up early, stay late, charge a dollar for what you paid a nickel, and smile while you're doing it. Does that take genius? Of course not. It takes Salesmanship. That, and commitment.

You wanna be a Scientist? Learn how to organize and pay attention to detail...and learn PATIENCE.

You want to be an artist? Well, first read and follow the above paragraph. Then, when someone looks at your portrait of Lincoln and says, "My, that is a GREAT picture of Moses!" Learn to say, "Yeah, I always admired that guy."

You see, you don't need to know how "geniuses" think...figure out how the BIG winners in life think, okay?



[edit on 8-4-2005 by Toelint]

Since the average person can look up anything on the internet, IQ scores are less relevant than ever.

What is hugely annoying is when a high IQ person does not want to look at things right in front of them, such as direct evidence that 911 was an inside job. With all their illustrious IQ they will not look at all, they will not listen to Silverstein saying "we are going to pull it," about Building 7.

It used to be annoying to listen to supposedly intelligent high IQ people say "Oswald did it," or "there are no relevant UFOs," and other such slavish devotions to establishmentarianism. (What a big word...)

So consider that ability to fit together number patterns, series, and other things has nothing to do with your ability to envision things directly in evidence. What purposes is your intellect when it suffers the same kinds of cultural blindness as people with IQs under 100 suffer? What good is Bobby Fischer's 180 IQ, when he doesn't even want to play chess any more, and he keeps spouting the same under 100 IQ books, with the same focus as if it explains anything and everything?

What is important is whether you get along with people, and do not report every bad thing that happens in your narrow life and pretend your friends are your shrink or something. It is important that you have a reasonable happiness in life, and you can take care of your daily responsibilities. Good health and an IQ of say 120, is better than high intelligence while making everyone around you miserable.

Hey you are a genius and get along with people, all the more power to you. Hopefully you can see more patterns than what they put on Fox news.


[edit on 8-4-2005 by SkipShipman]

However, I do not think that motivation and work ethic alone will overcome a lack of intelligence. It all needs to be there, especially if you are to accomplish the types of things that you have.

Not quite sure what you mean by 'lack of intelligence' But, we'll have to agree to disagree here. Call me dramatic if you want, but if you have the drive determination, and detication, nothing is impossible. Read a book called The Millionaire Next Door, most millionaires are not geniuses, they just have a dream and went for it and didn't let anything get in their way.

If you took IQ tests/standardized tests, scored below average, and still did all of those things, then I would say that the tests were bad (poorly administered, poorly constructed, incorrectly scored). IQ tests should help predict exactly the kind of outcome that you are talking about, and generally they do - but not always.

I can see how you would have little faith in IQ tests, because the ones you took obviously didn't do their job. However, there is no perfect test. There is always measurement error.

Maybe they were not administerd properly, but I doesn't matter. I have done HORRIBLE on EVERY standardized IQ test I have ever taken, and has not hurt me one bit. Most of my friends that did do well on those test have not been helped by it all that much either.

However, if you had so many problems with standardized tests, how did you get into graduate school? Many graduate schools use the GRE as a criterion for admission, because if you use it to predict later success, it can account for much more variance than GPA can.

In the sciences, grad schools don't care all that much about the GRE (I had two acceptance letters before even taking it). A high score will help you, but If you have a solid GPA, a strong background in undergraduate research, and good letters of recomedation, the GRE doesn't mean a thing.

I have a lot of faith in intelligence tests when they are administered and scored properly by a professional, but it's interesting to me when they don't work. I want to know what happened - why did the test fail in this case. These kind of cases can be used to improve tests and make them more accurate. It doesn't mean that they are complete crap and should never be used. Even if intelligence tests work 99% of the time, that 1% can really add up.

There are a lot of people in my situation, success in life depends a lot more than some scores on a test. If I really wanted to, and applied myself, I probably could do well on some intelligence test, but its not worth my time. My past record of accomplishments speak for themselves. Intelligence tests may work in most cases, and they may have worked for me, I may actually be dumb for all I know. I have to work harder than those who have natural intelligence, but as I keep saying, desire, determination, and dedication will overcome some scores on a test any day of the week, period.






[edit on 8-4-2005 by KyleChemist]