Honest/Good Sources about Irregular Freemasonry?

Where can I find some resources online about irregular freemasonry? I am familiar with the spaniard who claims to be a master mason and to have started an illuminati rite "above and beyond" masonry, and that he isn't part of 'regular' anglo-american (danish too no?) masonry, but rather a less standardized continental masonry. Problem with looking up anything about masonry is conspiracy sites and sites of dubious reputations. For example, I had thought that the illuminati never existed, because the only time I had ever heard of them was in a paranoid NWO type rant, and the only websources I had come across were allways deep conspiracy sites, never information about the actual Bavarian Illuminati and Weishaupt.

So are the mason's and masonic researchers here familiar with any sites about irregular masonry? Do they have 'stand alone' lodges perhaps that don't 'extend' beyond their own walls , or do they have 'regional' lodge networks or any such things?

Originally posted by Nygdan
Where can I find some resources online about irregular freemasonry? I am familiar with the spaniard who claims to be a master mason and to have started an illuminati rite "above and beyond" masonry, and that he isn't part of 'regular' anglo-american (danish too no?) masonry, but rather a less standardized continental masonry. Problem with looking up anything about masonry is conspiracy sites and sites of dubious reputations. For example, I had thought that the illuminati never existed, because the only time I had ever heard of them was in a paranoid NWO type rant, and the only websources I had come across were allways deep conspiracy sites, never information about the actual Bavarian Illuminati and Weishaupt.

So are the mason's and masonic researchers here familiar with any sites about irregular masonry? Do they have 'stand alone' lodges perhaps that don't 'extend' beyond their own walls , or do they have 'regional' lodge networks or any such things?

As masons, we are forbidden from association with "irregular" masonic lodges and masons. I don't know of any websites offhand, you might try looking up co-masonry. That's probably the biggest irregfular kind of masonry:

www.co-masonry.org...

Good luck on your search. If you see anything interesting, please post it here!

Originally posted by Nygdan
Where can I find some resources online about irregular freemasonry? I am familiar with the spaniard who claims to be a master mason and to have started an illuminati rite "above and beyond" masonry, and that he isn't part of 'regular' anglo-american (danish too no?) masonry, but rather a less standardized continental masonry. Problem with looking up anything about masonry is conspiracy sites and sites of dubious reputations. For example, I had thought that the illuminati never existed, because the only time I had ever heard of them was in a paranoid NWO type rant, and the only websources I had come across were allways deep conspiracy sites, never information about the actual Bavarian Illuminati and Weishaupt.

So are the mason's and masonic researchers here familiar with any sites about irregular masonry? Do they have 'stand alone' lodges perhaps that don't 'extend' beyond their own walls , or do they have 'regional' lodge networks or any such things?

The Phylaxis Society has a Commission on Bogus Freemasonry. It's a well-researched site maintained by a good friend of mine, Ralph McNeal, a Prince Hall Mason in Arizona.

They have several articles that explain bogus Masonic practice here:

www.freemasonry.org...

Hope it helps.

Regards

I suggest you start at

Illuminati Conspiracy Archive

and

freemasonary.watch

Cheers!

Originally posted by Souljah
I suggest you start at

Illuminati Conspiracy Archive

and

freemasonary.watch

Cheers!

Great. In another thread you tell me to post something constructive (which I have) and you post these jaded hate sites? C'mon soul-man.

Originally posted by Souljah
I suggest you start at

Those are precisely the very sorts of sites that lead me to erroneously think that the Bavarian Illuminati themselves didn't exist. Those kinds of sites promote ignorance by being outlandish, inaccurate, and vilely biased.

Certainly, there are legitimate claims against freemasonry. Those sites, however, are worse than useless, they are obscuring and distracting.

Originally posted by Souljah
I suggest you start at

Illuminati Conspiracy Archive

and

freemasonary.watch

Cheers!

THAT'S FUNNY! Those websites are two of the most outrageous, agenda-driven sites i've ever come across. I guess that goes to show you what your purpose is on this site. It also shows that you do not think for yourself and demand evidence for any claims, you just believe the first "good story" you come across. Do you also believe in Santa Claus?

And why are you so against people being controlled, and so against government power, but then you have a picture of Che Guevara as your avatar? He stood for nothing more than a revolution designed to imprison the population, the same things you accuse the NWO of trying to do.

"obscuring and distracting."

Isn't that what you are doing Nygdan?

By bringing up irregular Masonry and then saying what are the informative sites, you were really saying:
Name some sites, and let me de-base them into worthlessness.

Why is it that only reading about the Illuminati on the Internet made you believe they didn't exist? Why didn't you just do another internet search?

Its kind of hard to believe that you figured right off the bat that people that are trying to inform have an ulterior motive. Unless you are just that kind of suspicious, and I will keep that in mind.

Originally posted by akilles
Its kind of hard to believe that you figured right off the bat that people that are trying to inform have an ulterior motive. Unless you are just that kind of suspicious, and I will keep that in mind.

OH YOU are not one to be saying this! Calling ME suspicious! Look at your silly number theories, which you present as fact. You're the most paranoid person I've ever come across. We, as masons, correct you're guys' wild claims, and now we are "lying, disinformationists who are tryinng to misdirect you guys from knowing the truth"!!! Please..

Here you go Nygdan, hope this is something like what you are looking for; besides co-Masonry and suchlike I don't know of alot of irregular or clandestine lodges.

www.freemasonry.bcy.ca...

users.erols.com...

It's not much, but it's something. If I can find some more info (I have had VERY limited time to peruse the web lately) I will post it here. Masonic Light (as always) would be a good person to ask for some references or to suggest some books or other sources.

Can I ask you something?

Do you have to ask 1 to be an Irregular Freemason?

So then, how can I meet one if you come across them irregularly?

And furthermore, would they tell me they were irregular, or how would I express my interest to them?

It is like advertising that you aren't "Accepted". Didn't Sebatwerk say, and I remember this distinctly, "All groups recognize one another, and the membership overlaps."

Walk me through the process of becoming Irregular, please. (all I know is less fibre? :lol

Originally posted by akilles
Can I ask you something?

Do you have to ask 1 to be an Irregular Freemason?

It would depend. An organization is considered irregular when it violate sone of the main landmarks of masonry. Co-masonry allows women, but probably doesn't recruit, as it still considers itself masonic. So yes, you would have to ask.

So then, how can I meet one if you come across them irregularly?

Co-masonic lodges are just like regular lodges. You can find them in the phone book, they have websites.

And furthermore, would they tell me they were irregular, or how would I express my interest to them?

Im sure they wouldn't, but they know they are not recognized by the Grand Lodge of california. They have their own Grand Lodge, I believe.

It is like advertising that you aren't "Accepted". Didn't Sebatwerk say, and I remember this distinctly, "All groups recognize one another, and the membership overlaps."

I never said EXACLTY that, but you are somewhat correct. All REGULAR groups recognize each other. Some of the members are members of the other organizations as well. Take Senrak, for example. He's a member of just about every masonic organization in the US. I am only member of the California Grand Lodge, which is in recognition with other states' Grand Lodges, as well as other masonic organizations (including the ones that Senrak is a member of).

This is a strange link I found on FW of some guy who is trying to list all the Grand Lodges in the US and the rest of the world.
Not a lot of info but at least it's a starting point.
As you can see from the list there are at least as 5 times as many irregular Grand Lodges as there are regular lodges in the USA.

bessel.org...

[edit on 3-4-2005 by MrNECROS]

Originally posted by MrNECROS
This is a strange link I found on FW of some guy who is trying to list all the Grand Lodges in the US and the rest of the world.
Not a lot of info but at least it's a starting point.
As you can see from the list there are at least as 5 times as many irregular Grand Lodges as there are regular lodges in the USA.

bessel.org...

[edit on 3-4-2005 by MrNECROS]

That "some guy" is Paul Bessel, a Washington D.C. attorney and Freemason. He's a regular contributor to The Philalethes Society's yahoo-group list and quite a Masonic expert. A TON of info can be found on his site. The "Index" is here:

bessel.org...

Hey do you hear an echo in here?
I just saw my previous post repeated twice.
Wow and the same link as well!

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Hey do you hear an echo in here?
I just saw my previous post repeated twice.
Wow and the same link as well!

No....if you actually crawl out from under your bridge and LOOK...you'll see that your post was repeated only ONCE....the link I posted is to the INDEX of the site...not the list of Grand Lodges you posted. There's a lot more information available on the site and the INDEX (the link *I* posted) is a handy tool to utilize Bro. Bessel's site for those who are interested in legitimate Masonic information....which would obviously leave you and akilles out.



[edit on 3-4-2005 by senrak]

Sir Echo, Sir Echo
How do you do...?

Thanks for the extra sites everyone who suggested some.

Originally posted by akilles
"obscuring and distracting."

Isn't that what you are doing Nygdan?

Actually akilles I am honestly interested in this stuff and am not trying to distract anyone.

By bringing up irregular Masonry and then saying what are the informative sites, you were really saying:

This is interesting, because I know what I am saying, I know what my intentions are, and I know that you are generally wrong in this post because I am not some sort of disinformation agent. Obviously you don't know that, and neither does anyone else. But its interseting, because I can see, for a fact, that you are being paranoid, because I know that I haven't even 'erroneously' done anything to indicate that I am a disinformation agent. That 'persepctive' is entirely your own, and is entirely uncessary.

Are all boers this suspicious?

Name some sites, and let me de-base them into worthlessness.

No. I stated that I wanted decent sites about it. If anyone is asking for 'decent' information about freemasonry, they almost certainly are not talking about stuff like freemasonry watch. I am not saying this because they present mason's in a bad light. What I am saying is, why would I qualify the sort of information? Would I not just ask 'whats some info on masonry' if I hadn't had any info about masonry in general? If I 'bought into' the 'masons are an insidious conspiracy' type stuff, I'd probably not qualify what type of stuff i am looking for or ask about stuff that reveals the 'lies and deception' of irregular masonry, no? If I was, on the other hand, a masonic disinformation agent or I was running some sort of false flag operation, why would I've said "Problem with looking up anything about masonry is conspiracy sites and sites of dubious reputations. "? I'd've started off pretending to be all innocent like and what not no?

Why is it that you have worked me into the 'masonic conspiracy' here, in your reckoning? Can not a person simply be interested in the subject, and not 'go for' the sort of 'high cabal' type stuff that comes out of freemasonrywatch?

Why is it that only reading about the Illuminati on the Internet made you believe they didn't exist?

Here's the deal on that, because its a good question.
I learned about the 'actual' bavarian illuminati on ATS infact. Prior to that, I had only ever heard about these mysterious evil illuminati who are trying to destroy all religion and trying to overthrow the proper government and rule the world for their own dark desires. And that they were associated with the shape-shifting reptilians, or a satanic overlord, or aliens from a different and inherently evil dimension, and all the like. Now, at some point, one's 'baloney detector' goes off. Since I had only ever heard the ludicrous and extreme per-versions of the illuminati, I figured that they had been made up entirely, like the New World Order, and never actually existed as an actual self-identifying group, as opposed to say the Trilaterals or Bilderbergers.
The conspiracy information was so out of whack with reality that if acted as disinformation about their actual,previous existence.
VERY similiarly, the conspiracy wackiness that is the majority of stuff you hear about things like the NWO distracts from any realistic concerns about globalism, centralization, and the like.
Its like how the 'lunatic fringe' of the democratic party makes centrist, even left leaning, democrats look like insane 'liberal dictators' to the right, and how the right can easily be villified by merely calling anyone in it a 'nazi' or fascist.

Why didn't you just do another internet search?

I would, and most of the info I'd find was 'omg the illuminati are evil reptoids from dimension nine and they want to gnaw on your skull and burn bibles'. Only two 'groups' have any real interest in the illuminati, conspiracy theorists and masons. I'd normally not be particularly interested in what the masons had to say about anything tho, no more that I'd normalyl be interetsed in the minutes of a local Rotary meeting.

Its kind of hard to believe that you figured right off the bat that people that are trying to inform have an ulterior motive.

Well, it is what happened. The exteme form of the 'anti-illuminati' hysteria was 'off putting', to say the least.

Unless you are just that kind of suspicious, and I will keep that in mind.

I do not accept what I read as being tru merely because I have read it, correct. And I also place the 'burden of proof' on the 'non-consensus' theory, usually. This is logical, and beyond that its also necessary, since there are inumerable 'non-consensus' theories out there.

Originally posted by Nygdan
The conspiracy information was so out of whack with reality that if acted as disinformation about their actual,previous existence.
VERY similiarly, the conspiracy wackiness that is the majority of stuff you hear about things like the NWO distracts from any realistic concerns about globalism, centralization, and the like.
Its like how the 'lunatic fringe' of the democratic party makes centrist, even left leaning, democrats look like insane 'liberal dictators' to the right, and how the right can easily be villified by merely calling anyone in it a 'nazi' or fascist.

This was an EXCELLENT excerpt from you post.

"You have voted Nygdan for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month."

I do not accept what I read as being tru merely because I have read it, correct. And I also place the 'burden of proof' on the 'non-consensus' theory, usually. This is logical, and beyond that its also necessary, since there are inumerable 'non-consensus' theories out there.

This above quote also sums up my thoughts on the matter almost exactly.


[edit on 4-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

Nygdan - is it possible that you are really just some dumb **** who is looking for information on Freemasonry and accidentally wandered into a Secret Society/Conspiracies blog to ask for it?

YOU are posting in what you would call a "Lunatic Fringe" website.

Yes you are a disinformation agent, but not a very good one.

Senraks nomination for you only underlines the point.