Originally posted by iksmodnad
Your confusing your self, and me too.
I will say that not every thing is a lie no matter how much you think it is.
But I never said that. There is a mixture of truths and lies in all things, though certain lies are "heavier" than others, and can change someone's
entire understanding of himself and his reality. But the devil is always in the details, because even what is now considered true can be seen in a
different light and a broader context once the observer has more knowledge, which can fundementally change the nature of what is being observed and
thus change the "reality" of the situation, turning what was originally true into illusion or vice versa. But we're all human and so are bound to
the same general level of awareness, meaning, if something objectively happens in our reality we all have ability to perceive it the same way (for
example, if 911 happened, it happened for ALL humans, no one can claim that the WTC is still standing unless they are from an alternate reality or
have a fundementally different level of awareness from the rest, so they can perceive an alternate reality for example).
So keeping in mind that we all share the same reality, all that is left is we question that reality and see it as it really is, and not pretend it's
something else by ignoring it and coming up with illusions that are more comfortable. And all I am saying is, people see objective reality to various
degrees depending on the level of understanding of the individual and whether his aim is to separate the truth from the lies, or to just believe what
he wishes to believe. And MOST people on the planet are very much under heavy illusions about who they are and what this world is like - this has NOT
changed for thousands of years. EVERYONE is under SOME illusion, there are no absolute guarantees of ANYTHING, but the general state of humanity as a
whole is that of illusion, meaning, the vast majority of the people of this world are simply ignoring reality in favor of something else that is
simply more comfortable and easier to accept, and most are manipulated into their world views since birth by the world that they were born into.
Saying something like "This is the age of truth" is very vague and subjective, just like saying "This is the age of lies". There have ALWAYS been
lies and truths, and people have always seen both to various degrees. What makes you think that this age is any different? Because it is the age of
"technology" and age of "science"? Yes humanity has a slightly better understanding of ourselves and our reality in a physical and contextually
limited way, but the same age-old illusions are just as prevalant today as they have ever been, the technical level of a civilization does not speak
about people's ability to think for themselves instead of accepting views presented to them by authority and other influencial people in their lives,
it does not speak about people's ability to understand who they are within, does not speak about humanity's understanding about it's fundemental
nature (service to self, entropic, etc).
Truth is an extremely varied thing, and you can always argue that one area of truth is more important than another, but it is always for each
individual to decide for themselves what is more important to them and why. While knowledge has increased in certain areas of human endeavor, it has
remained the same if not decreased in others - but the question is, which knowledge is transitory and will change with time, and which knowledge is
truly universal and adds to the level of your very being? What is more important, knowing how to build a car, or understanding that assumptions to not
lead to truth? What is more important, knowing how to make an omlet, or understanding where eggs come from and how things grow in nature and why? Do
you see what I mean by "important"?
Please don't take offense to what I have said, your right I cannot judge the times we live in, but I have the right to observe and keep both eyes
open to your so called truth and my version of the truth (which you think is an illusion)
I'm not taking offense, I'm just wondering what brought you to such a conclusion, what reasoning/evidence you have for this. Why is it that
everything I observe indicates that the opposite is true, that humanity is falling further away from truth and accepts more and more lies? Do you and
I not share the same world? Do you not agree that objective reality is what it is regardless of what either of us believes? If so, then shouldn't we
strive to see what IS as it is, instead of trying to argue for some belief? Isn't is pointless to argue if there is only ONE truth, ONE objective
reality - and all we have to do is simply try to SEE it? I don't wish to argue with you, I simply presented my understanding and why I have this
understanding. I may be wrong, and I'm open to that, but are you open to the possibility of being wrong? If so, the only way to find out is to ask
yourself WHY you have this view, what thought process or data led you to have it? And then see if you find contradictions or inconsistencies, see if
maybe there is evidence that opposes your view. Of course, it would be nice to first have a view that is not completely vague or subjective, and see
if you can make it more precise, something whose validity can actually be determined.
me and you are incapable of agreeing but anyone who can see eye to eye with me will know what I am talking about.
We are capable, the question is - will we? Once again, the point is not to "see eye to eye", but to see objective reality (the truth) as it is (if
that is your intention anyway). Either you are wrong, or I am wrong, or we're both wrong, or we're both right to a certain degree. The devil is
always in the details, and what you have said can be interpreted in a number of different ways, some of which make your statement wrong, others make
your statement right - simply because it is vague.
Please do not attack me for this thread like I said we think differently there is nothing wrong with that.
No intention to attack, and different approach does not mean we will arrive at different conclusions. If our intention is to see things as they really
are, then inevitably we will eventually have the same view - WHEN we both see reality as it truly is. The question is, how do we come closer to
objective reality instead of arguing for some belief that may just as easily be wrong? Well, the best way I can see is simply to look at the evidence,
look at the facts, and critically think about them and try to understand how they "connect" and form a coherent whole.
So lemme ask you, can you elaborate on your initial statement? Can you be more specific, and provide any reasoning or data that has led you to this
conclusion? Can you give me anything more than what you said?
[edit on 31-3-2005 by lilblam]