personally I think you can't compare the Mi-24 with the AH-64 AT ALL, the Mi-28 is the Russian AH-64.

The Mi-24 is closer in capability to the AH-1 Cobra, both were based on a transport helicopter IIRC.

But modern upgraded AH-1's and Mi-24's perform alot better.

In reality, they all have pro's and con's, none are THE best helicopters, it's childish to argue which one will beat the other.

We all know that a MANPAD can take down both...in some cases an RPG round...

Yo put that picture on a link its too big.

Anyway I think it all depends on what you want your chopper to do, some are for hunting tanks some are for troop support. It hard trying to compare two different choppers and choose the best one when they both have different capabilities.

Well last time i checked Russian AA missles are somewhat more advanced.

Originally posted by tomcat ha
Well last time i checked Russian AA missles are somewhat more advanced.

They are, some information please ?

Well i readed it in a article magazine. I dont have a scanner and its dutch.

Just check www.globablsecurity.org and they'll tell you for sure...

As for the gun to gun engagement...

Both the M230 2A42 fire at around ~600-650 RPM, both are turreted, so very equal in capability, the Apache uses DU penetrators in it's AP munition.

The Air to Air missile capability is in favor of the Russians since the AA-11 performs a little better than the AIM-9L.

I'm gonna go with the Rooivalk on this one.

Saw it in action at an airshow last year and the crowd could not believe it when the pilot did a true loop with a helicopter.

There is nothing really special about the Atlas Rooivalk. Although it looks like and entirely new machine, the Rooivalk is based on a degree of reverse engineering of the Aerospatiale Puma, using the same engines and the same main rotor.

Any of you wanna buy Battlefield 2? That thing is DAMN realistic. Check it out man, yahoo battlefield 2.

The Havoc winns the apache in statistics... But I'am not sure about the Commanche...

This is one of the most entertaining threads in the entire forum.

Whoever said that Russian helicopters were brought down by small arms fire in Afghanistan is living in 'Cloud cuckoo Land'!

Whoever said that Hinds were brought down in Afghanistan by PRG type weapons is talking out of their rear end!

I know the Hinds, I've been in Hinds, I've operated out of Hinds. They are the dogs bollocks!

They can't be knocked down by RPG's as their armour was designed to stop this very crude but effective anti-tank grenade. This shoulder fired anti tank or anti aircraft missile, was the one thing the Russians feared if they were to ever take on NATO in Germany and win.

The 'Devils Chariot' was designed much in the same way the A-10 T2 was built - start with all the titanium armour in the world, then build the airframe round it. Add the avionics pack some cheap weaponry and Hey Presto! You've got the most feared assault helicopter in the world - bar none.

But let's not 4get the Apache, Cobra, Super-Cobra and Blackhawks. All fine rotary wing aircraft and good at what they do - for sure. Longbow? One word expresses what everyone feels about this very expensive white elephant - CRAP!

fritz says:

But let's not 4get the Apache, Cobra, Super-Cobra and Blackhawks. All fine rotary wing aircraft and good at what they do - for sure. Longbow? One word expresses what everyone feels about this very expensive white elephant - CRAP!

Your profile says "Ex RAF, Ex Army. Reconnaissance specialist. Weapons & NBC Instructor".

I assume that was the Red Army/ Red Air Force; had you ben in the British military, you'd have operated out of that "CRAP", since the Apache Longbow was chosen in open competition by the UK MoD.

And Japan.
And Singapore
And the Netherlands.
And Israel.
And Egypt.
And South Korea.

In addition, the US Army has chosen to upgrade all 800+ of its Apache aircraft to the Longbow configuration, since, not being as aware or erudite about the "crapness" of the Longbow as you are, their studies show the D-model to be about eight times as lethal and the A-model which it replaces.

And the militaries of Saudi Arabia and several other countries already using the A-model Apache are negotiating to re-man their aircraft to the Longbow configuration, even though the re-man will cost more than the original cost of the A-model.

But I suppose you have to understand their stupidity; they simply didn't have the sense to hire true experts in the field -- such as you -- as procurement consultants.

Come to think of it, I am trying to think of all the competed procurements that the Mil-24 actually won, and I believe the number is somewhere in the neighborhood of -- ummm -- zero.

With the Havoc and the Hokum, of course, it is much different. In all their competed procurements against either the A- model or D-model Apaches, they swept to victory in about -- let's see -- zero.

You know, come to think of it, given the total stupidity of the military procurement people when it comes to purchasing CRAP, a bright young fellow such as yourself could make a great career as a travelling expert.

Of course, you may be required to leave Aristophanes' wolkenkuckucksheim yourself, but you could probably negotiate the travel budget into your consulting contract!

[edit on 19-6-2005 by Off_The_Street]

Oh dear. How very sad that you have to resort to personal insults because I dared to have a view that differs from yours - that is the American view.

I am actually a 35 year Brit veteren. Do not presume to tell me what I have done and what I have done it in or from. I have forgotten more than any of you so called 'experts' or armchair warriors and I'm still learning!

My knowledge is based on actual operations - not some imaginary gameboy scenario like so many of you slavishly follow!

So please old boy, let's have some decorum and remember - you are a guest in my thread.

Oh dear. How very sad that you have to resort to personal insults because I dared to have a view that differs from yours - that is the American view.

Chill out, kid. I was't insulting you personally, just laughing at your assertion about the AH-64D Longbow (my comments to which, by the way, you haven't refuted...).

I am actually a 35 year Brit veteren. Do not presume to tell me what I have done and what I have done it in or from.

Why not? If you're an operator, you've never flown a Hind; if you're a REME, you've never worked on one. It's hardly hubris to know what's in your country's inventory and what isn't.

I have forgotten more than any of you so called 'experts' or armchair warriors and I'm still learning!

I read your profile, youngster; I suggest you read mine.

My knowledge is based on actual operations - not some imaginary gameboy scenario like so many of you slavishly follow!

See previous response.

So please old boy, let's have some decorum and remember - you are a guest in my thread.

Your starting a thread doesn't give you any proprietary rights, Brigadier. Suppose you provide some sort of backup to your assertion that the Longbow is crap, inasmuch as every country I mentioned (including the UK) now flies them?