Fine line of Insanity & Genius

yes there is a given intent that the genuis will be nearly insane! with a vast field of comprehension and understanding of the universe your vigilance for resolve will be tested upon the flaming discourse of ponderous preception. when responsible is not actively practiced in the genuine mind there will be an offset of mental instability. imho.

Originally posted by The Vagabond

Oh, and always use spell checker, especially in posts about IQ. Mine just saved me from a couple of duzies.

Not sure what you are talking about, I always use spell checker. Or least try

[edit on 113030p://666 by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy]

I won’t elaborate too much, but I think some people I been around, thought I was some deranged psychopathic insane person, due to the nature of how I talk, and my ideals.
I think I’m perfectly sane, but I am being to wonder. I just don’t think people understand me. So they say I’m different, or insane.

Life isn't a chaotic word expirement. Writing like that will look amateurish when you're older. I suggest you write it all down in a journal like I did when I was your age, so you can get a good laugh when you're older before you throw it away. And don't share it with anyone. You will thank me in about 5 years.


I use to write exactly like that and thought I was also a genius or had some sort of talent. But you know what, I wasn't really saying anything. It was just rambling. There was no substance. I bring this up because nearly all your posts are about you talking about yourself and you trying to convince others what you say isn't true.

What are you really saying. What are you adding to anything. Could anyone tolerate that for long? That's your problem I think. Not that you are insane or whatever you claim not to be. It's that you waste people's time.

Regarding your question, everyone knows there is no fine line. Every genius is insane. Every expert is insane. To dedicate your time or life to one cause is insanity. Look at Bobby Fischer or Kasperov, or Anand who spent years of their lives mastering chess.

All their energy put into it, the best of the best at chess. And for what. It's pure insanity. I love playing chess, but to move toward that point, I've realized isn't worth it for me.

So consider this, if you are moving in one direction, consider all the things you are leaving behind. All the opportunities, all the experiences, friends, people, happiness.

I'm sure you're heading in that direction in some fashion.

Also regarding your signature..

Conformity: The key to popularity

-------------

Make all the friends you can. It's not about conforming, it's about adapting. It's about meeting people's needs around you. It's about the point where you are no longer selfish. Where if all someone wants to talk about is a tv show you hate, you listen and maybe even learn what its about.

You have to realize that if something means a lot to someone else, you need to make it mean a lot to you. Popularity happens to be the result of caring, friendship, and making people feel better about themselves. You should appreciate it.

You can start by getting rid of that eyesore of a gremlin you use for an avatar. You do realize that people attribute what you visually look like with your avatar. I'm sure you are already aware of that though.

There is one book you should read. How to make friends and influence people. I've broken a lot of the rules in the book here today. But you know what, it's almost as if I'm talking to some distant past version of myself. And I'm sure it's something I would have liked to hear.

The snapping crab has spoken.



[edit on 5-4-2005 by Lord Altmis]

Do Insanity and Genius go hand in hand?

No one addressed the idea that both Insanity and Genius are LABELS placed on people, that may be a little different or appear more intelligent, by society.

Society defines everything by assigning a "Norm" factor. Anything to either side of that curve is assessed accordingly with a + or -....or a > or < label or tag.

Every human being is unique...assigning labels is not the way to experience that uniqueness that each of us possesses.

We should just be who we are...and should we fall on either side of that sociological "Norm" then so be it.

~oracle

Hello, Liquid, welcome to ATS.
From your points, I'm guessing you've been here for a while, but before I get into a formal reply, I figured I'd pass along a little courtesy note. It's kinda considered rude to bump one's own posts unless there is new content to add.

That said, you raise a very interesting topic:

Originally posted by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy
Do you think there is a fine line between insanity and genius?

My father once explained a theory behind this to me. Without wanting to sound arrogant, I come from a long line of geniuses. I make no claim to be one myself, though I do try to make use of the meager gifts I was given. Compared to my forefathers, though, I'm a moron. For the previous three generations, we had "Mad Scientists" in the family. Literally. And all of them worked for the government. Perhaps it is what they were exposed to, or perhaps they were that way before they were hired, but they are all most assuredly, nuts. My father lines his baseball cap with foil, talks to gnomes, and has a certain pair of sunglasses that he is convinced makes him invisible (it doesn't, btw). Since he's still alive, I'm afraid I can't divulge his work (the tiny fraction I even know about), but it's awe-inspiring. When he was living, my grandfather stocked up on guns because his invisible buddies told him to, carried around a live grenade, never slept, and refused to eat anything other than severely cremated toast and beans. He was a grand-master chess player, helped develop the atom bomb alongside Oppenheimer, and either developed or had a major hand in the foundation for radio control missile technology, robotics, and lasers. I even had a great...great...etc grandfather, who used to be mayor of Taos, NM. At midnight he used to ride around, naked, on horseback, and fire off a shotgun "to keep the evil spirits at bay".

Do I think there's a correlation between genius and madness? Damned-straight I do.

My father, in one of his more lucid moments, explained it like this:

Even geniuses only use a certain capacity of our brain. For the sake of arguement, let's say it's 18% tops for anyone (I know the actual number is different). That 18% becomes the max potential for most people, so let's just convert it to total points to allocate.

Perhaps you're Joe Average, and your brain is allocated as such.

3pts. for "Basic everyday tasks" (eating, hygiene, cleaning, driving, etc...)
3pts. for "Social Interaction" (conversation, sports, singing, etc...)
3pts. for "Creative Thought" (composing poems, painting, writing, etc...)
3pts. for "Memories" (remembering events, ability to recall details, etc...)
3pts. for "Logical Thought" (problem solving, completing sequences)
3pts. for "Moderation" (discipline, reality checks, distinguishing illusion)

That's how the average person works... but say you're an autistic savant, the allocation of points might be more like this:

2pts. for "Basic Tasks"
1pt. for "Social Interaction"
1pt. for "Creativity"
6pts. for "Memories"
6pts. for "Logic"
2pts. for "Moderation"

In essence, the points represent an exponential order of magnitude higher. Our Autistic Savant doesn't have twice the memory of Joe Ave, but rather has (Joe's Logic)^3. In contrast, his social abilities, compared to Joe Ave are (Joe's Social)^-2.

Now there are variances that go along with this, usually only one order of magnitude in difference. Like some days, you just can't help but bark your shins on every stupid end-table in the house, or you just can't seem to do even simple addition to save your life. That's normal, and some people call it biorythmns, and some just call it having a bad day, or a good day.

Being a Genius, is like having a perpetually great day in a few certain areas, and a perpetual bad day in the rest.

Anyway, that's my Dad's theory on it. Seems the most logical I've heard so far.

Originally posted by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy
If so have you ever walked alone it’s beautiful unperceivable lines that crosses you from reality into a world of schizophrenia?

Lots of things get mistaken for Schizophrenia because of its two biggest symptoms: Paranoia, and Obsessive Compulsiveness. Those traits, however, are not unique to it. Additionally, schizophrenia is almost always induced by child abuse at an early age, usually of a sexual nature. It develops because at such a young age, the mind, as a defense mechanism, creates an alter ego to take the pain that the other ego cannot. Sometimes it is a dull roar in the background of whisperings and voices. Other times it is one or more distinct voices that can often culminate even in visual hallucinations. It is not, however, a prerequisite of being a genius. Some geniuses are schizophrenics, and some schizophrenics are dumb as posts. There is not a correlation between the two.

Originally posted by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy
Dr. Ted Kaczynskiturn into a mad man?

Ted Kaczynski was not a genius. Far from it. In fact, most bomb squads that have studied his work are amazed at the incredible luck he displayed because by all rights, he should have blown himself up, due to his shoddy workmanship and poor understanding of measurements.

Originally posted by Lord Altmis
Life isn't a chaotic word expirement. Writing like that will look amateurish when you're older. I suggest you write it all down in a journal like I did when I was your age, so you can get a good laugh when you're older before you throw it away. And don't share it with anyone. You will thank me in about 5 years.

Oh NO kidding!!! I found my diaries... and my poetry! It was so pretentious and shallow that I actually burned them when nobody was home, making sure that they were good and gone!!!

Em-barrassing!

I don't think geniuses are insane. My kids are all geniuses (yes, really.) They drive ME insane, but they're kinda normal kids.

Sorta.

I mean, most kids probably aren't reading DUNE at age 9 and LORD OF THE RINGS at 10, but they're really kinda normal kids.

I have a lot to say to a few of you, but I do not have time to express myself right now.. I am very disappointed by a few of your posts, no hard feelings. I will reply later. One thing I will say though, is my sign. is a joke.
Making fun of society.

[edit on 083030p://222 by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy]

i think the line between genius and insanity is so fine, it is almost undetectable, because for some, in order to be genius, you must be insane, because all the sane people are incredibly stupid((not counting the sane ppl on ats))

Originally posted by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy
I have a lot to say to a few of you, but I do not have time to express myself right now.. I am very disappointed by a few of your posts, no hard feelings. I will reply later. One thing I will say though, is my sign. is a joke.
Making fun of society.

[edit on 083030p://222 by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy]

Don't mind the crab. It is extremely rare for anyone around here to match me for arrogance, condescension, or hypocrisy, but I stand in awe of the self-righteous attack Altmis just launched on you.
I'm not saying I wholly disagree with Altmis, but there is a certain hypocrisy in attacking you as insubstantial and egocentric with a post which seemed to be principally concerned with establishing Altmis as some older, wiser version of yourself.

Altmis, have you ever been mid-way through authoring a tirade against somebody and realized that even if you are right, there would be a certain inescapable hypocrisy and vanity in actually posting it? If you are aware of the feeling to which I am referring, I can not begin to grasp how you failed to experience it while authoring your last post.

for being from such a long and prestigious line of geniuses thelibra, you STILL continue to perpetuate the "WE ONLY USE X% OF OUR BRAIN" myth. yes this is a MYTH. do a google search next time.

Originally posted by The Vagabond

Originally posted by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy
I have a lot to say to a few of you, but I do not have time to express myself right now.. I am very disappointed by a few of your posts, no hard feelings. I will reply later. One thing I will say though, is my sign. is a joke.
Making fun of society.

[edit on 083030p://222 by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy]

Don't mind the crab. It is extremely rare for anyone around here to match me for arrogance, condescension, or hypocrisy, but I stand in awe of the self-righteous attack Altmis just launched on you.
I'm not saying I wholly disagree with Altmis, but there is a certain hypocrisy in attacking you as insubstantial and egocentric with a post which seemed to be principally concerned with establishing Altmis as some older, wiser version of yourself.

Altmis, have you ever been mid-way through authoring a tirade against somebody and realized that even if you are right, there would be a certain inescapable hypocrisy and vanity in actually posting it? If you are aware of the feeling to which I am referring, I can not begin to grasp how you failed to experience it while authoring your last post.

actually i find his post rather sobering. the idea that you can throw around a lot of 'big words' does NOT make one intelligent. infact most of the time those with a real intelligence will simply write you off as snobbish, at best. however, age does NOT nessesscitate wisdom. if you remember anything, remember this; "The wise speak because they have something to say. A fool speaks because he has to say something."

Originally posted by forsakenwayfarer

Originally posted by The Vagabond
I'm not saying I wholly disagree with Altmis, but there is a certain hypocrisy in attacking you as insubstantial and egocentric with a post which seemed to be principally concerned with establishing Altmis as some older, wiser version of yourself.

actually i find his post rather sobering. the idea that you can throw around a lot of 'big words' does NOT make one intelligent. infact most of the time those with a real intelligence will simply write you off as snobbish, at best. however, age does NOT nessesscitate wisdom. if you remember anything, remember this; "The wise speak because they have something to say. A fool speaks because he has to say something."

My problem with what Altmis said was not in the meaning of his post. I agree fully that vocabulary and alone does not make one intelligent. (I might go on a brief tangent though to say I'd temper that statement by recognizing that to be eloquent is not always to be pretentious. The purpose of language is of course to convey ideas, so to the extent that it serves the purpose of better articulating your point, there is nothing pretentious about it.)
Back to the meat of the subject, although I tried to tactfully point out that Altmis was right on several points I believed that it was bad form for him to make them, especially in the manner he chose. To be so condescending and abrasive while instructing someone on how best to interact with others was hypocrisy. He may as well have been telling liquid, "Don't never use no double negatives again!".

Allow me to present a nearly perfect analog to what Altmis has done. At this point I could apply the adage, "weak minds discuss people, mediocre minds discuss events, great minds discuss ideas", and it would certainly have application since Altmis has decided to discuss Liquid. However appropriate that would be, it would be absurd for me to actually say it, because I could not possibly say it without discussing Altmis, which would make me a weak mind as well. Even by using the illustration I have raised this issue which is absurd for me to raise you see. Sometimes the only way a sentiment can be wise is if it is kept private.
Obviously that applies to this post, and I am defying my own lesson in the name of my ego. I would suggest however that in the future we all attempt to take the high road.

Originally posted by forsakenwayfarer
for being from such a long and prestigious line of geniuses thelibra, you STILL continue to perpetuate the "WE ONLY USE X% OF OUR BRAIN" myth. yes this is a MYTH. do a google search next time.

I stand 100% corrected.

You're right. Every reputable site I went to said the same thing, from Snopes, to Scientific American, and everything in between. I should have learned that a long time ago.

Well, it just goes to show, even an ancient codger like me can still learn something new every day.

Still, I stand by the point system, since it works equally well, regardless of the percentage of brain used. I'd like to say I should have just left the percentage part out, and gone strictly with points, but hey, as a result of unneccesary (and false) data, I learned something new. Cool.

For catching that, and correcting a long-held myth that I actually bought, hook, line and sinker, you get a "Way Above" from me. Good find!



PS: I never claimed to be a genius myself.

[edit on 4/7/2005 by thelibra]

I am at school right now, and I can't type much, but all I have to say is this is one fine example of why I dumb things down when I talk or express my ideas to other people. Because they are too ignorant and think I simply try to use big words, with abstract ideas to come off as intelligent, and I guess it insults their ego, so I understand everyone’s defense mechanisms here. I am not saying I'm more intelligent than anyone here. In reality we are all equal. So please leave me alone with the way I choose to express myself. I came here because I thought I could have intelligent debates, not to get insulted by the way I choose to express myself.

double post

[edit on 5/7/2005 by Gools]

Originally posted by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy
I am at school right now, and I can't type much, but all I have to say is this is one fine example of why I dumb things down when I talk or express my ideas to other people. Because they are too ignorant and think I simply try to use big words, with abstract ideas to come off as intelligent, and I guess it insults their ego, so I understand everyone’s defense mechanisms here. I am not saying I'm more intelligent than anyone here. In reality we are all equal. So please leave me alone with the way I choose to express myself. I came here because I thought I could have intelligent debates, not to get insulted by the way I choose to express myself.

Ok sorry, LOD, you are a genius, your art of perception and mastery of the english langauge are without par, you are special so very special and everyone should be ashamed of themselves for not giving you the ATTENTION that you so rightfully deserve!

Feel better now?

Don't Forget about Aleister Crowley - Def an Insane Genius there - of course he did borrow from Nietzsche & Rabelais & Others!
Insane Geniuses do tend to Self Destruct!

For instance I personally know this Musician - who when you Listen to his Musical Works you can not deny that it is Absolute Genius - But when you Hang Out with him in Person he comes off as
*REALLY ECCENTRIC* & even possibly Insane! He claims to have been Abducted by Aliens too! Please take it easy with the Psychedelics people! The Line is Very Fine Indeed!


[edit on 7-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 7-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Originally posted by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy
I am at school right now, and I can't type much, but all I have to say is this is one fine example of why I dumb things down when I talk or express my ideas to other people. Because they are too ignorant and think I simply try to use big words, with abstract ideas to come off as intelligent, and I guess it insults their ego, so I understand everyone’s defense mechanisms here. I am not saying I'm more intelligent than anyone here. In reality we are all equal. So please leave me alone with the way I choose to express myself. I came here because I thought I could have intelligent debates, not to get insulted by the way I choose to express myself.

Alright, Liquid, it's time to stop the drama and start reading.

Combined with the knowledge that you are in school, quoting Dostoevsky, and apparently started this thread to rant, rather than to discuss, gives me the impression that you are roughly 15-16 years old. Probably either late in junior high, or early in high school. Am I off to a good start?

That is nothing to be ashamed of. Some of our members are probably even younger than that. It is a hard thing to be that age, regardless of gender, ethnicity, religion, or intelligence. Things don't grow right, no one understands how you're feeling on the inside, and everyone and their dog is out to judge you, then bite you.

It's even worse for the smart ones. Let me guess: You're smarter than the other kids in your class. You're probably more talented in a variety of subjects. But because the jocks happened to grow a little taller, broader, or better looking, they are the ones whom people listen to. They get the girls, they get the laughs, and they get the popularity...

You, on the other hand... you get picked on. The people laugh at you, not with you. They trip you in the hall, they threaten you with violence, and you've been insulted and hurt so many times you can't help but wonder whether or not they're right sometimes. You try to be strong about it, because you're a man, and that's what men do, but it hurts so bad inside that you can hardly stand it.

Why is the whole world so f---ing stupid? Why does the world reward stupidity?
What's the g-d d-mned point of being intelligent when your only recognition is the scorn of your peers? And eventually you begin to think that maybe you should become the monster they all think you are. You begin to wonder if it might just be worth it to go down in history like Klebold and Harris...

Yeah... I was there and I know exactly where you're coming from. Because that was me. And unless I miss my guess, I can see where your road is headed.

And you know what I did? I DEALT WITH IT!

Chin up, kiddo. Just like guns, trying to play yourself off as a nutcase isn't the answer either. There are hundreds of kids in your school--in EVERY school, actually--that are going through the exact same thing. They never speak up, they never stand up for themselves, much less anyone else going through the same thing they are.

You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. But neither are you the monster you are beginning to wonder if you should be. You are a young man, still going through the same torture that everyone else has had to go through ever since school was invented a million gazillion years ago. And if you EVER want the respect of other people, the solution is not to become a nutcase, and not to tote a gun, but to keep your head down, get through it, graduate, and then you're home free.

Once you're out of high school, you can be as brainy as you want, and the only people who will fault you for it will be the people making less money than you. Most people will respect you, if you don't act like a total freak around them, and once they stop dating arses (around late 20's) many women will find your intellect more attractive than good looks. You'll earn more money, have a more satisfying relationship, and have far closer friends than any of the jerks who used to bully you in school.

The most satisfying moment of my life was when I drove up in a brand-spanking new car, right after being hired for a nice phat job as a network administrator, and in my brand new italian suit, stopped at McDonald's to have myself a burger, and found the Captain of the Football team behind the drive-through window, to take my order. He didn't recognize me, and didn't need to. I probably could have even gotten him fired, if I made up a good enough story. However, having worked at McDonald's when I was a teen, I know he's already in his own private little hell, and who am I to deprive him of it.

To be honest, I don't know what you're contemplating right now. It sounds like to me you're trying to convince yourself that you're insane, maybe even gearing up for a shooting. If that's the case, I recommend you just save everyone a lot of trouble and do it quiet, to only yourself, and in the backyard where it's easy to clean up the mess. At least then you won't have people hating you or pitying you.

But if you want to be a MAN someday, a REAL man, not one of those Calvin Klein commercials, then you buck-up, get your head on straight, make it through the next couple of years to graduation. If you have to learn to fight with fists, or walk down a different hallway to avoid being shot, then do it. But don't think that accepting the part of "The Freak" is going to make you any more acceptable or popular later on. And while violence may sometimes be the only resort, it is never the -answer-. Live. Let Live, and for chrissakes, keep it together.

Hope this helps you... God knows it helped me.

Originally posted by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy
Fine line of Insanity & genius

I have mysteries riddling inside my brain eating at knowledge I must contain.
I have a pathological desire to know what lies beneath the ocean of its naked truths.
Look at the cunning dexterity of the mind’s physical limits, and look what surpasses the gates of beyond.
It cancerous world of sin eats its own flesh while us humans yearn for more truth beneath the ripples of sand
and time. How much longer will this truth remain invisible, and undetected to this naked eye?
That is why I come to you, yes you my friend… for I have questions that need answers.
Questions that must not be held back from the world, but released furiously upon the it. So open up your naked blind eyes. Reveal your hidden truths. That is where the fun begins. My question to you is, as followed. Do you think there is a fine line between insanity and genius? I urn for your answers. If so have you ever walked alone it’s beautiful unperceivable lines that crosses you from reality into a world of schizophrenia?

Please answer… my last and final question for now is
how could a genius like Dr. Ted Kaczynskiturn into a mad man?

www.primitivism.com...


I am by no means insane, I am just curious on what you think of this matter.

-Liquid

[edit on 033131p://444 by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy]

"I have a pathological desire to know what lies beneath the ocean of its naked truths."

"That is why I come to you, yes you my friend… for I have questions that need answers."

"I am by no means insane, I am just curious on what you think of this matter."

===================================
I should have been more kind I know. And believe it or not, my response was me trying to be very kind. Instead of going on with a dissertation on all the things that bother me, my logic or reasoning, my history or perspective, I'll leave it alone.

With sincerity, I wish you lots of luck and happiness. As I responded in a previous post, it's all politics.

[edit on 7-4-2005 by Lord Altmis]