Biblical cruelty

Originally posted by maynardsthirdeye
Seekerof, I'm sorry if I misled you into thinking I'm trying to trap people in an attempt to destroy their religion. I do like you version of Christianity though.

Thanks!

Maynard

Seriously, I took no offense and didn't think you were trying to mislead or trap me or anyone else, for that matter. Questioning is good.
We don't have the answers maynard; all we can relate is our experiences and interpretations. Again, God reveals Himself differently to each and every one of us...as I believe He will do to you or anyone else, for that matter.

regards
seekerof

[Edited on 19-7-2003 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by maynardsthirdeye
Some parts of the Bible show God as being an immoral, unfair, and sadistic monster. I thought God was supposed to be loving

They show Him condoning vengeance and genocide.

P.S. I'm not anti-Christian. I'm just confused about how people could worship that kind of God.

When you read the bible it's important to be in the right mood. To let God speek through you AND the bible. When God speeks to the Israelites about how people will let's say kill and eat their children, God says this with horror and disgust in his voice. He is simply tellin the prophet what will happen, what the people will do because of war that comes because of their unrightious ways. If you judge God, you judge yourself.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

_____________________________________________
["Tamahu, I have always respected your views and I still do but I question something.
If God is "All", as you say and agree He is....do you think that He can violate His own Laws? God's Laws (ie: all laws concerning nature, space and time, etc.) are perfect. It is 'we', you and I, etc., that break and "manipulate" those laws....

Again, I see that God is being "defined" and further "confined" by 'books/holy text'. All holy texts are not the "true" expressions of God, they are merely glimpse's of. Your idea's of God being different from the Christian God or any other religion's God is questionable. God is God; to all people, all religions, etc. God does not change...we change God, if you ubderstand what I am meaning."]
_____________________________________________

I don't like the term "God"(G.omar O.z D.ubar) because when people hear that word they usually picture some old guy in the clouds pointing fingers and such like Zeus.

We've been taught to mentally seperate ourselves from The All or The One when we should realize that we're all really ONE. I use The All and The One interchangeably because in reality, The All is ONE. Of course the relative universe exists but the apparent differences and seperateness of All is an illusion. We and all other things are manifestations of The One, or The One expressing itself in degrees. No body knows exactly WHY The One separated itself into manifestations.

We're all part The All but not The All itself. The Kybalion says that while it's true that The All is in the earthworm, the earthworm is far from being The All. The highest manifestation of The All is the Center or Source of itself which is no manifestation and is Infinit, Immutable, Omnipotent and uncomprehendable. So when people try to give The Infinit petty attributes like jealousy and desire of worship, it doesn't make any sense to me.

To me a prophet is one who has a high level of spritual developement(one who's closer to the Center or Source) and expresses knowledge, wisdom, understanding and practices it as well. But when someone assumes the position of a 'middle man' between the people and the Most High, I feel that they have an alterior motive. When someone says that "God" told them to do it, it makes me suspicious.

Back to your question. Can the The All break its own laws? The All IS Law. Cause and effect for example is immutible, how can it be broken? If it could then the whole universe would go into chaos because the divine order would be broken; planets would no longer follow their respective paths, etc.

This is just a small explanation on my views and I'm just beginning my studies; so if my degrees of knowledge are off, maybe I shouldn't talk so much.

My question remains: Why would the Most High appoint middle men who would have babies thrown against rocks?
I'm not judging "God"; I'm just saying that the mystery god that they feed us doesn't exist. Yahweh(Yakub?) could have been an actual person but not the individual source of all existence.


ONE

[Edited on 19-7-2003 by Tamahu]

Tamahu,
We all view the All, ie: God, or whatever name we so choose, differently. I actually find what you are saying similar to what I believe. I don't think you should feel aback to say what you feel. It was quite actually beautiful and yet eerie, because I have some of the same beliefs and yet I have not read the Kybalion.

I respect what you said; we all should accept and try to understand what or how each of us view and interpret the All or God or whatever name we have choosen. I think it lends to further understanding and insight.

regards
seekerof

[Edited on 20-7-2003 by Seekerof]

Tamahu,
As to your question, I'm not avoiding it but I am still thinking it out myself. Interesting question to say the least.

regards
seekerof

Originally posted by Tamahu
My question remains: Why would the Most High appoint middle men who would have babies thrown against rocks?

The answer to your question is: He would not. He called for the prophet to tell about this horror so perhaps they wouldn't do it. God is in a difficult position. He knows something is going to happen, and since he knows, there is nothing that can be done to stop it. He has to watch it happen from his dwellingplace.

I'm not judging "God"; I'm just saying that the mystery god that they feed us doesn't exist. Yahweh(Yakub?) could have been an actual person but not the individual source of all existence.

No, you judge yourself. When Yahweh created humans, he created himself in a way. Out of the stock of Man came Jesus, an incarnation of the Existing One, a son of the Most High, the living Image of God and through him God will do vengance for the holy ones and judge the quick and the dead. He's our eternity. How can you say he's not God?

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Why would God speak unto a people telling them to enter into a land and slay all the people.

Question I asked, God along time ago. The answer I got back was one that helped me understand the Old Covenant and the New one. Christ says it as one wearing an old suite and then having a new suite, you would not take from the old one and wear it with the new one and vice-versa.

So with that I had to in a sense stop thinking and let him explain what was the truth. He had me draw on paper (letter size) long ways a line and on that line he said put the name God on it, it was a straight line from side to side. Under that he had me start a second line and stop and then draw down about an inch and then parallel to the first again, stop and now going backup and to the right again. This he said represents Man, who walked with me and fell away and was brought back to me thru my son Jesus Christ.
In the fallen line he had me draw a line vertical so that if you hide almost all the other lines a Cross would be seen in this. On the left side I was told put OLD and on the right side put NEW, then under each side put down those things that happened. Under the OLD I found myself putting down go into and kill those who will not obey me, I found Anger, temptation, and much more. On the other side I found the oppisite, forgiveness, healing, hope, love, faith to believe.

It was then that he said now take and like the romans put a sign on top of the cross, and write this : 3rd " , after doing that I look and asked again what was I looking at and this is what he said to me,

See the old covenat and the false God who came to me on his 3rd try to get me to worship him bay saying " all this is mine and I will give it to thee if tho wilt pay me homage", Christ answer was that God only should we worship and no others, but it made the pointe in my mind who was in control on Man, Satan, who offered Christ us if he would make him his God, that Jesus refused to do.

Looking at that drawing I could see a false God who caused the Fall of Mankind and now ruled over it, and then looking forward and seeing his time in the tribulation years doing what he did in the Old testament, scaring people into worshipping him or be killed, yet if you look at the New side God put a fire between man and him to prevent him from judgeing manking, then the New side of the cross we see he has not changed with a women thrown at his feet caught in the act of fornication, and he says to the people who is without sin cast the first stone, so when all the people left he looks down at the women and ask were are they who accouse you, for neither do I but say turn and enter into the Kingdom prepared from the beginning. One mocks and the other declares faith in them, one kills and the other heals, one steals and the other returns what was stolen.

So for me I see a false God who declares to be God but is a liar. Then I see the true God who has never hurt and seeks only my salvation, for me it was an easy choice to make, but one that brings with it attacks. I guess truth, as in the X-Files is out there but you must seek the truth and it will set you free.

If you would like to see the map email me at [email protected] and I will let you see what I ended up drawing.

Hope this helps,

Michael

FYI,

1st temptation was,

Turn these stones into bread, Jesus reply, we live not by bread alone but by every word out of the mouth of God.

2nd temptation was,

Jump from this cliff for God will send his angels to catch you, Christ again said Temp not the lord thy God.

3rd temptation,

Taken to the highest peak Satan says to Christ everything that is in this world is mine to give to you if you will pay me homage, Lastly Jesus tell him, It is written thall shalt worship the Lord God and him only.

Michael

Thats awesomely written and informative Ark-Angel....
Thanks for posting it.

regards
seekerof

Mikromarius

In the Bible it is implied that Yahovah commanded those murders, rapes, robbings and pillagings to occur. Just read it. Even if he didn't, he definately condoned it. According to the Bible Yahovah isn't only able to just watch without interfering because he interferes numerous times in the Bible. I won't even quote any scriptures because what I say is obviously true if you've read the Bible.

I wasn't judging, just stateting things as they are. To judge anything is to judge yourself really; because everything is ONE and from the same Source, The Most High which is not Yahweh, because he has petty human attributes which The Creator could not possses. How can a human being, a Buddhist for example, dissolve his/her ego, while the Most High would be ego driven by things such as jealousy? Doesn't make any sense.

Ark-Angel

I'll reply later. Peace.


ONE

Originally posted by Tamahu
Mikromarius

In the Bible it is implied that Yahovah commanded those murders, rapes, robbings and pillagings to occur. Just read it. Even if he didn't, he definately condoned it. According to the Bible Yahovah isn't only able to just watch without interfering because he interferes numerous times in the Bible. I won't even quote any scriptures because what I say is obviously true if you've read the Bible.

I wasn't judging, just stateting things as they are. To judge anything is to judge yourself really; because everything is ONE and from the same Source, The Most High which is not Yahweh, because he has petty human attributes which The Creator could not possses. How can a human being, a Buddhist for example, dissolve his/her ego, while the Most High would be ego driven by things such as jealousy? Doesn't make any sense.

Ark-Angel

I'll reply later. Peace.


ONE

OK I give up. Who is the Creator? If not Yaweh, Jehova, God?

[Edited on 21-7-2003 by Tyriffic]

Originally posted by Tamahu
Mikromarius

In the Bible it is implied that Yahovah commanded those murders, rapes, robbings and pillagings to occur. Just read it. Even if he didn't, he definately condoned it. According to the Bible Yahovah isn't only able to just watch without interfering because he interferes numerous times in the Bible. I won't even quote any scriptures because what I say is obviously true if you've read the Bible.

I'm afraid you're on the wrong course here, mister. What you refer to is written in the Prophets. Taste the word prophets. The prophecies given here are all prophecies. God's witness of what will happen and God's solutions as to how to cope with it.

I wasn't judging, just stateting things as they are. To judge anything is to judge yourself really; because everything is ONE and from the same Source, The Most High which is not Yahweh, because he has petty human attributes which The Creator could not possses. How can a human being, a Buddhist for example, dissolve his/her ego, while the Most High would be ego driven by things such as jealousy? Doesn't make any sense.

Or you expressed yourself about things as they seemed. God is Love. And what is a greated expression of that love than to shape his creation, Man, as gods or angels? And what greater Love do you find than that which God showed us when he even died for us just to show us the immortality of our souls through rising from the dead? And about jealousy: Isn't that a clear sign of true love?

But I have to admit that God has proven to be a great warrior too. Who protected Israel from whoever didn't respect God's command, that the land of Canaan/Israel/Palestine belonged to his people. But this is in the Law.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 21-7-2003 by mikromarius]

Tyriffic

See the brainwashing that occurs?

Why do people assume that when one doesn't believe in the Bibles god that they don't believe in a Creator. The Bible is but one book which contains spiritual lessons and "God" is but one name. The word G.O.D. is a Greek acronym which is "Gomar Oz Dubar" or "Beauty Strength Wisdom". The word obviously became a generic term for any deity. Its Hebrew equivalent is Elohim and Yahweh is a particular Elohim. The Khemetian(Egyptian) equivalent is Neter. Yahweh doesn't say that other Elohim don't exist, he just says not to worship them because he's a jealous Elohim. Its implied this way in the Bible.

The actual origin of All which is above Yahweh is Infinit and therefore uncomprehendable. Known to some as God, The All, The One, The Creator, El Kuluwb, The Source, The Absolute, etc. Though there could possibly be higher beings than ourselves who intervene in human affairs; The Creator doesn't get involved in PARTICULAR INSTANCES to serve its 'likes' and 'dislikes' because its INVOLVED in EVERYTHING and is IN EVERYTHING. I guess you could say that everything that occurs is divine intervention. The Kybalion says that there is nothing large nor small in the mind of The All.

Like I said before; the Bible is but one book which contains spiritual lessons. It does have truths but when taken on face value can do more bad than good because it would spawn fanaticism and silly superstitions which cause things like war.


ONE

Originally posted by Ark-Angel
3rd temptation,

Taken to the highest peak Satan says to Christ everything that is in this world is mine to give to you if you will pay me homage, Lastly Jesus tell him, It is written thall shalt worship the Lord God and him only.

Jesus never taught us to worship him. Jesus has told us time and time again that only God shall be worshipped. And God is Love. God is the head of Christ, not Christ himself. God is in the mind of Jesus, he speeks directly to him and work through him. Jesus is the instrument of God, the right hand of God, the priest-king whom God has chosen above all to be his Son among the sons. The firstborn in the congregation of gods/angels/sons/morningstars in Heaven. But to worship him would be a crime. Only God shall be worshipped. If God gives a bread to someone who is hungry. Would you say it was wise of the hungryu man to thank the bread? Or even the fields that grew it, the farmer who cut it or the millman who grained it? Jesus is that bread and God gave him to us. Thank God for Jesus.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Mikromarius

In Numbers 31:17 it is clearly stated that Musa(Moses) was COMMANDING the Israelites to slay all the males and non-virgin females(by the way; how would they know which ones are and aren't virgins?); and keep the female CHILDREN for THEMSELVES. He wasn't merely prophecizing what would happen but relaying YHWH's orders.

What about Jeremiah 50:21?

"Slay and utterly destroy them, SAYS THE LORD, and do all that I have commanded you."

And no; jealousy is not a clear sign of love. Some would say that jealousy is one of the "four devils" along with hate, lust and envy. Jealousy is a product of attachment. Attachment being one of the main, if not THE main cause(s) for suffering.


ONE

Originally posted by Tamahu
Mikromarius

In Numbers 31:17 it is clearly stated that Musa(Moses) was COMMANDING the Israelites to slay all the males and non-virgin females(by the way; how would they know which ones are and aren't virgins?); and keep the female CHILDREN for THEMSELVES. He wasn't merely prophecizing what would happen but relaying YHWH's orders.

You forget time. In the time this happened, a virgin was an unmarried woman, and when in a marriage the wife and the husbond was concidered one individual. If they were to kill the men, they killed also the women, for they were "attached" to their men to use your own words. Horrible as it may seem. But this was the war ethics of the time. This was how their enemies faught, and this was how they met their destiny.

What about Jeremiah 50:21?

"Slay and utterly destroy them, SAYS THE LORD, and do all that I have commanded you."

This is about the war against the Babylonians. If a world power like USA or China attacked your people and threatened to wipe out all your brothers and you turned to God for help, would you expect your God to say "never mind them, they only come to kill my children and destroy my nation"? No he summoned the warriors among the Israelites and faught back, because he is a zealous God. And the way he did it was utterly brilliant when you see it as a whole.

And no; jealousy is not a clear sign of love. Some would say that jealousy is one of the "four devils" along with hate, lust and envy. Jealousy is a product of attachment. Attachment being one of the main, if not THE main cause(s) for suffering.

I know you follow a different path than me. BTW I have never been jealous in my life, and until I was twelve or something I never believed anyone could feel this way. Being Jealous or feel envy. But the word translated "jealous", Kanna, is only applied to God, not humans. So to mix this word with something human and even something evil, will proove nothing else than ignorance. In like manner the word used for "create" in the opening phrace of Genesis, is also applied only to God. When God creates, he doesn't do it like we humans does it. And when a word like jealousy occurs, it is simply not the same we call jealous. Zealous is a better word to use, but few knows what it means these days and it doesn't discribe the word perfectly either. When Jesus chases out the merchants from the Temple, he is driven by the same "jealousy" as God is when he tells the children of Israel not to worship anyone but him.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

quote from mikromarius,

Jesus never taught us to worship him. Jesus has told us time and time again that only God shall be worshipped.

I believe that is exactly what Christ said to Satan standing on top of that Mountain top? Did I get your message wrong? I agree thru out his walk on earth Jesus kept telling people this "Work" is of the Father, and I come to proclaim him and it is he who will proclaim me. We also stand declaring not those things we know but that word which is of the Father. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God for the Word was God. Christ standing is the word made flesh to us which is Really God in the flesh, so if you understood my map, then you should see the deciever who comes as God but is a liar. If I asked change for a 3 dollar bill you'd know it fake, why then do you think he who is the Master of Illusion would himself declare himself as God, the map I see I forgot the right hand side where it's written Satan is cast out of Heavon to Earth, and like Hitler and Japans Hirihito (spelling sorry) has those unwilling to bow before him KILLED. Christ declared a destroyer can't build but can only destroy and I see that he is the exact opposite of Christ who is the same Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow. One rules with Fear the Other with Truth, is all I was saying.

Michael

ps - There are no strings attached to us, we chose who we follow in life, History to Me ( my limited understanding ) show those like Japan, Germany, Haiti, and even the United States as having people who inflict pain and suffering on other people, KKK is what I'm talking about, Black Panthers, Skin Heads who believe they have a moral right to take the life of another.
No where in his Walk upon this World did Jesus Christ tell people to hurt other, in fact we see him telling us to forgive those who come against you. Why ( yep my thinking again) if you do those things which they do against you then in reallity your already defeated and are acting just like them.

Pss - I stopped coming here because the topic would become lost, discussion leads to truth. Attacking each other is what I see alot on this site and it only obscures ones vision and helps hide how we can overcome this lie. We are ALL born of one Mother, this Planet, we are dust unto dust, and having lived with an older brother and sister and younger ones I know how unfair others including myself can become. This topic is one I think about daily on How people are afraid to trust in God, take the Father of Deciet and show a False God who is ruthless and I can see why most Fear God, some just saying God. For them visions of horror should I obey or do what my heart says, Christ Heart is and was that of his Father and in him I can see a Love that is without asking but one that talks softly and comforts me. Not the Liar who scare those into worshipping him or being put to death. Rome had such a time in history that tells of the lions eating the Early followers of the Word.

Sorry if this got a little too long

[Edited on 22-7-2003 by Ark-Angel]
My apologies for having such a large avatar, to those who whispered into my ear the truth Thanks....

[Edited on 22-7-2003 by Ark-Angel]

Ark-Angel,

Thank you. I agree with SO MUCH, virtually ALL, of what you said.

Regards to you.

Originally posted by Valhall
Ark-Angel,

Thank you. I agree with SO MUCH, virtually ALL, of what you said.

Regards to you.

Agree. Good post Michael. I feel what you're saying.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Like the beginning of this discussion I had started reading the Bible for myself. I started off with the New and then began reading the old. I came to 2nd chonicals I believe and read how God wanted the people to enter the land killing the men, women, livestock and CHILDREN. I had a knee jerk reaction reading it because the New had Christ speaking a parable that it would be better for one to take a millstone and tie it to their necks and be cast into the Sea than to hurt 1 hair of a Child. That was a turning point for me that sent me on a journey to understand what I had just read. No it was not an easy one and I fell a half dozen times myself with shame. Yet I find thru all that he had never left my side, Jesus was still there waiting for me.
Freely you have recieved , Freely give. I know the church would hate to hear that, but again he had only one time I saw him get mad and that was with the money changers. You have made my House of Prayer into a den of thieves, as he turned over the tables. He paid the ultimate price, and we are to declare not ourselves but he who showed not himself but the Love of His Father to us. Faith without works are just followers who worship him with their lips. Like the priest standing on the banks of the river Jordan, dressed in fine garments.

If you saw any truths in my word they were his first, for people shall know that you are my sheep, for your love for one another. Just as I can see in Christ the True God pointing out How a False one seeks to blind those who would see the truth and be set free. I set on my website a parrable about a King, Landowner,Servent, as it was the land owner had a debt with the King and the King forgave him of his debt, but getting home asking for payment the servant could not pay was put in prison. As I saw it the King is Jesus Christ, Landowner in Man, with the servent women. Christ paid for the sins of Man yet Man has yet to forgive the servant Women. To follow Christ one must forgive the Women knowing she also was decieved by Satan, not forgiving is Faith without works. Christ came not to condem but to declare unto all the true image of God. Look at him and you will no longer thirst for any other word other than his.
Christ walked saying I am for this is who God is, I call to those who will open unto me, who drink of that spirit in me and enter into the Kingdom prepared from the beginning. Would your friends speak of you as one similar to Christ who continually proclaimed His Father and that these works show openly what is in his Heart.

The map is what did it completely for me when I could look and see with my eyes 2 spirits claiming to be God, like the commercial, I'm Emmit Smith, visa card authentication, well God's Holy Spirit is the authentication which led me to see he has not change in all this time, we walked away from HIM thru deception , yet he plans on using truth to getting back what belongs to him, us.

It comes down to Choice, that same thing that got us into trouble will be our salvation, and I think that is what he is telling us, we still have a chance if we make the right Choice.

Michael