Mexico's Military=oxymoron

You want to see what the word retreat, means--just watch a bunch of Mexican GI's come face to face with a group of anyone with guns in their hands. Oh they're macho as hell when they beat-up on a couple drunk American tourists, but they were never meant to protect their country--just their narco bosses.

Ya know I almost laughed at this story. ALl hype. Funny though how the US gov't has dropped this ball concerning illegals smuggling themselves into our country, probably since we have had a country,and then the citizens decide to do something and the gov't has reservations? And all of a sudden there are funds for 500(I think) new border patrol agents.

Does anyone know the laws concerning private citizens apprehending illegals and turning them over to the authorities? I am sure the "armed" question is the crux of all this hype.

As for the Mexican army "standing by"...that's exactly what they should do...if they know what is good for them. Actually I think that statement and stance is highly incindiary and provocative. The Mexican gov't should be the ones keeping their own in their own country...Not concerned with US citizens keeping them out. But I understand the statement in terms of it being a soft warning not to cross the line..literally.

I think if you really look at this issue and all the statements made by the govt. including the Pres., it appears to be an issue of the federal government trying to once again control the citizens becasue ultimatley the Fed Govt didn't do its job. Citizens are unhappy and try to remedy the problem and all of a sudden they are vigilantes and not an organized militia.

Just what the US needed. Whacko militia cells running around Texas, playing cowboy.

I wonder how many LEGAL American citizens of Hispanic descent they're going to round up and harrass ... like my cousin and his wife, whose grandparents immigrated to Texas. Of course, they look and sound Mexican. How are the shoot-first-and-ask-questions-later proposing to tell the difference between my family and People They Think Are Illegals?

If they were so concerned about border security, why haven't they joined the border patrol... LEGALLY?

Next thing you know, they'll be deciding to patrol those evil pharmacies that give out birth control pills.

Originally posted by SIRR1
If the Mexican military opens fire on the minutemen, it will be war against Mexico, and Mexico will loose.

If the minutemen provoke fire from the mexican military, then the US government will declare war on the minutemen and rightly so. They've been instructed not to interfere. If they choose to do so and get shot up in the process then they'll rightly deserve it. Either way its not going to start a US-Mexican War. The very idea is preposterous at this stage.

Arizona not Texas. It is a state regulated militia not a bunch of wackos toting guns just wishing to kill Mexicans. Jeesh! I am sure if you are stoped at a border crossing or in the countryside at or near the border and you can produce valid ID allowing you to be in the US then no worries. If you can't you get turned over to the Border Patrol. Pretty simple. And I think the armed issue has to do with the MS-13 terrorists roaming the countryside just savoring the idea of killing an American. THis is where issues will be found.

Worst case scenario...MS-13 terrorists are shot by armed US citizens on our side of the border and all you 'll hear is how innocent Mexicans were gunned down trying to find a better life...yeah dealing drugs, raping and killing on US streets(MS-13 not innocents).

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by SIRR1
If the Mexican military opens fire on the minutemen, it will be war against Mexico, and Mexico will loose.

If the minutemen provoke fire from the mexican military, then the US government will declare war on the minutemen and rightly so. They've been instructed not to interfere. If they choose to do so and get shot up in the process then they'll rightly deserve it. Either way its not going to start a US-Mexican War. The very idea is preposterous at this stage.

US military cannot declare war on its own citizens. That would be illegal. US military cannot regulate the US citizenry....except in times of war.
The Mexi military will do nothing. Minutemen will do nothing. Not a single shot will be fired between these two groups. As for the MS-13 terrorists that is abother story that I cannot even anticipate.

Is this issue a federal matter or does the state have any jurisdiction? It would make quite a difference I think.

changeling
This is not a state regulated militia. This is a loose collection of men from across the country whose stated goal is putting an end to the porous border problem. They're a private group, not in any way affiliated with the state.

Just wanted to clarify that.

This whole situation is getting more and more dangerous by the day. I live in the area and believe me no more stress needs to be added to a situation that is already pressurized.
As to the people carrying guns aspect of it... If you make a habit of wandering around close to the border unarmed at night you are taking your life in your hands. At least with a gun you can hope you'll be ok.

Originally posted by CHANGELING
It is a state regulated militia

How is it regulated by the state? They have volunteers from all over the country no?

and you can produce valid ID allowing you to be in the US then no worries.

The minutemen are saying that they won't even stop anyone, that they will spot, alert the authorities, and track until the authorities come in.

If you can't you get turned over to the Border Patrol. Pretty simple. And I think the armed issue has to do with the MS-13 terrorists roaming the countryside just savoring the idea of killing an American.
They're criminals interested in money. If they wanted to kill yankees that badly they'd certainly not need to wait for these guys to show up. MS13 is a gang that specialized apparently in human smuggling across international borders. They are originally from el salvador and are now all over the continent. These human smuggling operations are extremely dangerous and well armed and have no problem with killing a truckload of people to avoid capture or information about them getting out. I actually doubt that the minutemen will run into too many ms13ers, since they don't run around willy nilly over the border or go swimming in the rio grande. Short of them setting up roadblocks, which would be illegal, they probably won't run into them, outside of execution squads that might want to exterminate them.

Worst case scenario...MS-13 terrorists are shot by armed US citizens on our side of the border and all you 'll hear is how innocent Mexicans were gunned down trying to find a better life

The worst case scenario is that some of these yahoos run into a cell of ms13ers, who promptly wipeout the minutement and start 'dumping' and executing their human cargo, only to cross back over the border to get another load of cargo.

US military cannot declare war on its own citizens.

Well, yes, they won't declare war. But if violencestarts occuring, the feds are going to investigate these guys, suspend their gun liceses, arrest them, and basically break them up.

Is this issue a federal matter or does the state have any jurisdiction?

Well, its the federal border, so I'd think that its a federal matter, even tho its also the border of the state. But I expect that arizona doesn't actually maintain the border much. Also, the gangbangers aren't US citizens (mostly) and the minutemen suposedly come from other states, so I'd think that its generally something that the federal government would handle.

[edit on 30-3-2005 by Nygdan]

This just in:


"Mexico's President called on 5000 of his forces to report to the USA/Mexico border. But 80% of the Mexican Army members called on couldnt be reached because thier shifts werent over at Wal Marts accross southern Arizona, California, and Texas...More as story developes..."

If the minutemen provoke fire from the Mexican army, the Mexican army either has absloutly no dicipline (MINUTEMAN: You're a dork >BANG!<), or they intended to start a war/conflict.

In Arizona, you are permitted to carry a weapon as long as it is in plain view. You can bring in a pistol and set it on your table when you're eating at a restraunt. You probably won't get the best service, but it's legal. So for these people to be patrolling the border, it is totally legal until something comes up. They are not permitted to fire first, but they are allowed to defend themselves if shot at or assaulted.

More importantly, what on earth is Mexico thinking?! They publish a guide on how to sneak into the US, they have no border patrols, and now they're moving their armed forces into a threatening position because the US is increasing border security. What the heck?!

THIS JUST IN:


"The Mexican President called on 5000 of his Mexican Army members to report to the US/Mexico border. 80% of them could not be reached however because thier shift at various Wal Marts accross California, Texas, and Arizona werent over yet....More as story develops.




Oh yes, too bad this post was moved here to die. Was looking to be a good one

[edit on 30-3-2005 by skippytjc]

That second "THIS JUST IN" looks awfully familiar

Oops! The thread got moved while I was making that post, thought it didnt stick. OOPS!

Originally posted by skippytjc
Oops! The thread got moved while I was making that post, thought it didnt stick. OOPS!

no, no, no, no! When you make a mistake, you say zero-Ops! When refering to the member here on ATS you say Oops

Originally posted by junglejake
Apparently, there have been 115 reported Mexican soldier incursions since 1996, as of 2003. Why on earth do we not hear about this stuff, and why are they doing it?

Most likely because it's untrue since its reported by newsmax.

There's something of an Oxymoron in the term NewsMax, seems to throw fair and impartial reporting out the window. It's like the Vince McMahon of News.

Originally posted by Indellkoffer
Just what the US needed. Whacko militia cells running around Texas, playing cowboy.

I wonder how many LEGAL American citizens of Hispanic descent they're going to round up and harrass ... like my cousin and his wife, whose grandparents immigrated to Texas. Of course, they look and sound Mexican. How are the shoot-first-and-ask-questions-later proposing to tell the difference between my family and People They Think Are Illegals?

Easy...If you are crossing the Mexico-US boarder, you are at the very least coming into the US illegaly, and how many legal LAW ABIDING US citezens would just cross the boarder innocently?

The only people that are going to get harrased are those coming into the US ILLEGALLY, which is a good thing.