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Three Strikes for Empire

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posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 09:59 AM
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Three seemingly unrelated recent events highlight the imperial nature of the Bush administration's foreign policy: U.S. F-16 sales to Pakistan, the creation of an office in the State Department to plan for future U.S military interventions in developing nations and the indefinite detention in Guantanamo prison of a German man held on the basis of secret evidence that even U.S. intelligence disputes

To facilitate this imperial intrigue and smooth the rough edges of the U.S. imperial sword—discovered during the “recent unpleasantness” in Iraq—the Bush administration is setting up a new office in the State Department to manage future occupations of sovereign nations in the wake of U.S. military interventions. The creation of the office assumes the United States should invade and remake foreign societies in the U.S. image. How far we have come from the nation's founders' policy of staying out of other countries' business!

Detaining people indefinitely without a jury trial, and instead using a military tribunal that allows secret evidence and no legal representation for the defendant, may be normal practice in authoritarian regimes (such as Pakistan) but should not be used in the “home of the free and the brave.” Empires throughout history have experienced “blowback,” and retaliatory terrorism is the unfortunate price the U.S. Empire will continue to pay for its unnecessary meddling in the affairs of other nations and peoples. When that terrorism comes back to bite the United States, the hysteria generated allows the U.S. government to institute Orwellian practices that are clearly unconstitutional. In the end, as in ancient Rome, the destruction of the republic in the course of maintaining the overseas realm is the most dire consequence of empire. Worse than using arms sales to play off opposing sides against one another in volatile conflicts and institutionalizing empire by creating large imperial bureaucracies is the slow erosion of the Founders' notion of republican government. Republic and empire don't mix.


by Ivan Eland from his commentary : Three Strikes for Empire

An interesting read and a nice overview around current events in the "War aginst Teror" of the Bush administration and the future of the US Military interventions. How the Empire becomes Legalized.




posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 10:11 AM
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yep, we are all doom!!!!



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 10:17 AM
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very interesting, maybe Bush's intention is to get nuclear Muslim Pakistan to be annihilated by nuclear Hindu India which may kill over a hundred million Muslims without Americans firing a shot (who knows), also it may kill Osama because of the radiation even if he survive the nuke blasts. I don't support the keeping of the detainees, instead i support returning them home where they are kept at home and in their jails and where the laws, countries laws (excuse me) against terrorism they enforce in their own ways.



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 10:34 AM
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Hmmm, Delta..interesting point. But I think that Nuke would be better served around Iran and in that general area, but hey, a million dead muslims ( at least the ones who hate us) is a good start. And our hands would be clean.(somewhat).

But didnt Pakistan allready pay for them and we were holding them? I though when I watched Daniel Pearl loose his head that was in the end of the video when they were stating their demands.."We want our F16's that we have paid for, but the Americans will not give us!" I could be wrong. I dont want to post the Pearl video cuz its nasty, but Im almost postive thats what they said. Not their main point, but they were plenty pissed about it.

[edit on 30-3-2005 by spliff4020]



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 03:45 PM
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deltaboy & spliff4020

Yes really nice thinking. Nuke Pakistan. Nuke Iran. Dead Muslims a Good Start. Clean Hands? Osama killed by radiation?

Please! Can you be even more Imperialistic in your thinking?

This is not WWII, you cant just fly around and nuke people! Things tend to get very complicated.

And who said that killing millions of Muslims will help the War on Terror? Fox News?

GeeezuS!

Wake up!




posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 04:03 PM
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lol sorry Souljah i was kidding with you ill think of something to respond to yer thread when i have something smart to say.



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by spliff4020
Hmmm, Delta..interesting point. But I think that Nuke would be better served around Iran and in that general area, but hey, a million dead muslims ( at least the ones who hate us) is a good start. And our hands would be clean.(somewhat).

You really sicken me with comments like this....



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by spliff4020
Hmmm, Delta..interesting point. But I think that Nuke would be better served around Iran and in that general area, but hey, a million dead muslims ( at least the ones who hate us) is a good start. And our hands would be clean.(somewhat).

You really sicken me with comments like this....

Mister spliff4020 has proved his ignorance and hatred towards the Muslim people well. Brainwashing well done. The USA used to have a "Boogey Man" the Big Red Bear from behind the Iron Curtain; now they are hunting the Boogus Al-Qaeda - founded and funded by USA via Saudi Arabia.




posted on Mar, 31 2005 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by spliff4020
Hmmm, Delta..interesting point. But I think that Nuke would be better served around Iran and in that general area, but hey, a million dead muslims ( at least the ones who hate us) is a good start. And our hands would be clean.(somewhat).

But didnt Pakistan allready pay for them and we were holding them? I though when I watched Daniel Pearl loose his head that was in the end of the video when they were stating their demands.."We want our F16's that we have paid for, but the Americans will not give us!" I could be wrong. I dont want to post the Pearl video cuz its nasty, but Im almost postive thats what they said. Not their main point, but they were plenty pissed about it.

[edit on 30-3-2005 by spliff4020]


Nothing more to reply:You are Cold-blooded Ignorant.............



posted on Apr, 1 2005 @ 11:54 PM
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They may not be doing what you would consider "the right moves" to save the country from the downward spiral which eventually engulfs all civilizations, but atleast they are trying to do something to delay it as long as they can.

Hindsight is always 20/20 and it is easy to "armchair quarterback" complex issues that sometimes have no solutions.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 12:07 AM
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spliff4020 may be racist or anti-muslim but I can't see any ignorance. While his comments are 'bare' and coarse they also reflect the sentiments of many people. Sentiments brought on by propaganda and hate-mongering to be sure, but sentiments none the less.

Daniel Pearl was, well he was beheaded on film. His head was sawed off and held up on video for the world to see Ogrish . com

    This video is from Ogrish . com. I do NOT recommend Ogrish to anyone that can not handle true reality. This is not Doom3 or some game site.

Daniel Pearl was in Pakistan as a reporter, chasing a story. He was kidnapped. His execution was used by terrorists/militants. They wanted the world to know who they are and that they are serious.

spliff's comments seem to me to be in keeping with the thread. As a matter of interest the thread starter's URL clearly calls for the same 'nuke them all' sentiments expressed by spliff, so how can he be faulted?

Was there a turn that I missed here?
.

.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 12:27 AM
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The US army never did explain why they had berg interned during the period before his execution.

Lots of unanswered question.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 10:05 AM
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Only in America can we be attacked and hated and not allowed to hold any anomisity towards the aggresors. Maybe another 9/11 will bolster my sentiment.

They hate us and only want something from us when disaster strikes. Any other time, we are infidelic pagen scum. Interesting.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
deltaboy & spliff4020

Yes really nice thinking. Nuke Pakistan. Nuke Iran. Dead Muslims a Good Start. Clean Hands? Osama killed by radiation?

Please! Can you be even more Imperialistic in your thinking?

This is not WWII, you cant just fly around and nuke people! Things tend to get very complicated.

And who said that killing millions of Muslims will help the War on Terror? Fox News?

GeeezuS!

Wake up!



This isnt about US nuking them. Its about letting them nuke themselves. Much like the problem with gang bangers here. Let them kill themselves off. Less of them we have to worry about. Why are you people in such a hurry to defend these people? THEY ARE THE ENEMY !!!



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by spliff4020
Let them kill themselves off. Less of them we have to worry about. Why are you people in such a hurry to defend these people? THEY ARE THE ENEMY !!!


'These people'??? As opposed to what?

The last I heard we are all people first and unless you subscribe to some of the more 'alternative' views posted on this website then you will be forced to admit that I am correct. Unless you consider yourself as belonging to some 'superior race' and that all others are 'sub human'. In that case I suggest you brush up on your 'Mein Kampf' studies for when your leader finally reveals himself.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by JamesBlonde

Originally posted by spliff4020
Let them kill themselves off. Less of them we have to worry about. Why are you people in such a hurry to defend these people? THEY ARE THE ENEMY !!!


'These people'??? As opposed to what?

The last I heard we are all people first and unless you subscribe to some of the more 'alternative' views posted on this website then you will be forced to admit that I am correct. Unless you consider yourself as belonging to some 'superior race' and that all others are 'sub human'. In that case I suggest you brush up on your 'Mein Kampf' studies for when your leader finally reveals himself.


Ok, Ill take that bait. IMO yes, we as americans are superior to the taliban or al-qaida. We didnt attack them, they hit us. And cheaply, I might add. Lets knock down 2 buildings and kill 3000 civilians unwarranted. Yes...we Americans are the scum, arent we?

Lets start a campaign of fear and paranoia. Lets tell all the Americans that it was OUR own government that did it. Lets turn the Americans against their own government, and then guilt them into thinking about all the poor muslims we have to kill to protect ourselves.

I have no use for those people. They started this. And now, that we have a leader who will not bend to these people, they are scared. With Clinton, they knew that nothing would happen to them, Bush took them by suprise. Thats why the world hates him.

The muslim people need to realize that they are not going to gain control of the world. They cannot defeat us militarily. They cannot break the American peoples pride.

The bottom line is this: They started this. We are finishing it. And now that they see CLEARLY see their demise rapidly approaching, they are scared. Well, to bad. Instead of sending us hijackers and hate, they should have sent scientists and doctors and we could have had a man on mars allready. But no. we are still fighting a "holy war" thnks to these people. So for that, I feel that we AMERICANS are indeed superior to the radical muslims.

[edit on 2-4-2005 by spliff4020]



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by spliff4020
Ok, Ill take that bait. IMO yes, we as americans are superior to the taliban or al-qaida. We didnt attack them, they hit us. And cheaply, I might add. Lets knock down 2 buildings and kill 3000 civilians unwarranted. Yes...we Americans are the scum, arent we?

So how many Muslims deaths have the US been responsible for since then. Do you even know why this attack was made?



Lets start a campaign of fear and paranoia. Lets tell all the Americans that it was OUR own government that did it. Lets turn the Americans against their own government, and then guilt them into thinking about all the poor muslims we have to kill to protect ourselves.


Yeah it has positively been raining high explosive in New York since hasn't it? You poor bastards I feel for you I do. If it is your intention to get into a 'they started it' based debate then I would suggest you look a little further back in history first.
What are you protecting yourselves from? I dont see the paratroopers falling from the sky on CNN exactly.



I have no use for those people. They started this. And now, that we have a leader who will not bend to these people, they are scared. With Clinton, they knew that nothing would happen to them, Bush took them by suprise. Thats why the world hates him.

So why, if 'they' are so intent their nefarious goals, didn't they take full advantage of Clinton's laxness?
The world hates Bush because he is an idiot who starts was for money and has turned the reputation of a once great country into a international disgrace.



The muslim people need to realize that they are not going to gain control of the world. They cannot defeat us militarily. They cannot break the American peoples pride.


I dont see the muslim people, or the jews, christians or jehova's witnesses for that matter, trying to take over the world. This viewpoint seems to be a prime example of the campaign of fear and paranoi that your govern-bent is conducting. (That is if you really are SERIOUS??!!?)



The bottom line is this: They started this. We are finishing it. And now that they see CLEARLY see their demise rapidly approaching, they are scared. Well, to bad. Instead of sending us hijackers and hate, they should have sent scientists and doctors and we could have had a man on mars allready. But no. we are still fighting a "holy war" thnks to these people. So for that, I feel that we AMERICANS are indeed superior to the radical muslims.



The bottom line is this: 'They' may or may not have started it but the US govern-bent is intent on using the premise of terror to create an empire, to make more money, to walk the path of Hitler, Napoleon and so many others only to end up on their asses.

BTW

Jeff Buckley created something beautiful and unique with his life. The pope just spouted the doctrine of others, not to mention his interlude selling poison gas to the Nazi's. But Hey! the Jews were 'inferior sub humans' too werent they? And I bet that RADICAL JEWS were plotting to take over Germany in 1933, just like Hitler said just like your RADICAL MUSLIMS are now.



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by spliff4020
This isnt about US nuking them. Its about letting them nuke themselves. Much like the problem with gang bangers here. Let them kill themselves off. Less of them we have to worry about. Why are you people in such a hurry to defend these people? THEY ARE THE ENEMY !!!

Yes, just like you will find a Gun Store next to a Liquor Store in Compton LA, but you wont find them in Bevery Hills, right? Really helps the problem of young Black Men killing each other - I guess that is what the White Man wants right?



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 04:08 PM
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I'm on my way out the door to the work now..Ill be back on in around 8 hours. Will reply then



posted on Apr, 2 2005 @ 04:19 PM
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Only in America can we be attacked and hated and not allowed to hold any anomisity towards the aggresors. Maybe another 9/11 will bolster my sentiment.


We weren't attacked by the entire Muslim world you know, just a bunch of fanatics. I have no problem taking out Al Quaeda, good riddance. But to pretend it's the US versus the entire Islamic world is insane, not to mention it is exactly what the fanatics want.



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