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Are Christians Insane

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posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 09:39 AM
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Due to the amount of Biblical ramblings that litter this site like so many used nappies on a beach...I think it's time we got to the crux of the matter rather then tip toe around as most of these threads tend to do.

I'm damn sick of Christians quoting the Bible to back up their arguments...it's ridiculous...the bible is a biased document designed to spread and gloryify the Christian way of life...as a piece of evidence it's absolutley weightless and yet it is quoted day after day after day because without the source Christians have little to work with.

I must admit that I fear for the sanity of people with blind faith....they ignore evidence that's placed before them, brush under the Carpet anything they don't understand and reel of passges of the Good book as if was some concrete factual evidence.

As I said in an previous thread...people who hear voices are now medicated or removed from society and yet once upon a time the Catholic Church thought that If you heard voices you were a few steps from sainthood....an amazing turnaround if you think about it.

And lets' take the Pope...do Catholics really believe he is Gods Representative on Earth and they should lead their lives in which ever way the Pontif see's fit!!

History is littered with Popes who have supressed and murdered thousands upon thousands of people yet this is largely ignored by believers today.

It's just plain ignorance as far as I'm concerened and rather then quote parables or backwater websites more people on this forum should say what they really think and stop pussyfooting around...only then can we stop going around in constant circles trying to find different angles for the same old arguments.






[edit on 30-3-2005 by BobDylan]

[edit on 30-3-2005 by BobDylan]




posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 09:50 AM
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If one does not have faith in a higher power,what does one believe in?Himself.Exactly.Ignorance is blind.If we believe in nothing,then nothing will be the result of ones-self.



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 09:52 AM
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Are Christians ''insane''


NO!

There , no Bible quotes!

What ''evidence'' is it that you are refering to BobDylan?

What type of evidence is it that you want to see?


Ok.......you post ''Are Christians insane''?

I gave my answer.....
NO

I know that you are somewhat resentful of Christians....but what has this got to do with insane?
helen



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 09:53 AM
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I would say be educated and sensible enough to accept that there may be a higher power...but not arrogant or misguided to such a degree that you are convinced that your God is the true one.



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 09:57 AM
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How are we being “arrogant and misguided” by having faith?



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 10:01 AM
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*A nasty old Moderator had to edit my childish post because I can’t discuss issues without flaming*

True?

I think so

As for you helen...you Chickened out of the debate becuase you had nothing new to say...am I right?

[edit on 3-4-2005 by kinglizard]



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 10:13 AM
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First let me say that it isn't fair to say "Christians", because not all are like that. Let me also say just in case there is anyone here by now that doesn't know it, that I am not Christian, I am Wiccan, but I am also fair, or try best to be


Originally posted by BobDylan

I'm damn sick of Christians quoting the Bible to back up their arguments...it's ridiculous...


I will agree with this part. As I have said a thousand times here....trying to "prove" a point by bible quoting is pointless to those that aren't Christian. If your going to try and make a point, do it with your own words, not falling back on someone else's from 2000 years ago and you you'll be taken more seriously!


I must admit that I fear for the sanity of people with blind faith


There is nothing wrong with people having faith! This is not my problem with some Christians. If your going to follow a religion, you damn well better have faith in it! I have faith.....without "some" type of faith, mankind is empty! I would imagine that though you do not realize it, you have faith too


people who hear voices are now medicated or removed from society and yet once upon a time the Catholic Church thought that If you heard voices


But that was "once upon a time". I don't think that's the norm for them today.....my biggest problem with this part of your post is that our current nut in the white house has said that god talks to him and the darn religious re-elected him while anyone else who says this gets a slow throrzine drip in a hospital. The other big problem I have is the way some Christians want to call out other's sin while they sin themselves. Yes "everyone" sins so what makes them so holier than thou to point it out in others? It's not right. Keep your nose out of other people's business and worry about your own sins.



And lets' take the Pope...do Catholics really believe he is Gods Representative on Earth and they should lead their lives in which ever way the Pontif see's fit!!


Agreed here....he's just a man, nothing special or godly and people can tend to get very hardened when old age especially about anything out of the norm or different...look at the very elderly in your own family, not to mention their senility!


It's just plain ignorance as far as I'm concerened and rather then quote parables or backwater websites


Agreed again, but some people know nothing of their own religion other than what they are taught, they don't research for themselves



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by BobDylan
I would say be educated and sensible enough to accept that there may be a higher power...but not arrogant or misguided to such a degree that you are convinced that your God is the true one.



Does anyone else see the great irony of this statement?

More on topic, kinda, this seems like a post to just try to rile people up. Were it on ATS, I would suspect you of trolling, but since you get no points for threads on BTS, either you didn't know that or you have a different motive.

So, the question is are Christians insane for believing in something other than themselves? Or is it that we are just ignorant. I would say no on both counts.

I am curious as to your definition of insane, if this is a legitimate question and not just an angry rant.

As for quoting Bible verses, you're right, when talking with a secular person about someting non-religion based, they're not going to give much credit to your faith. However, most of us religious...oh, wait, it's only Christians who are insane, almost missed that.. However, most of us insane Christians post Bible verses when discussing theology here on ATS. If you want to talk about Christianity, supposed faults of Christianity, supposed contradictions in the Bible, etc. you should really expect Bible verses to show up, otherwise there's nothing backing up either side's arguement. That's where most of the Bible quoting shows up.


you believe in what your religion tells you and you ignore evidence to the contary.


If I could paraphrase, you're telling us that we believe what our religion tells us and ignore what you tell us to believe. What evidence is there that Christ is not the Savior and Christianity is the only true religion? I'm really curious as to what this is. I've been at ATS for quite a while, and I'm not one to run from a debate because someone presents something that doesn't fit in my world-picture. Yet, I haven't seen any evidence that Christianity is false. Many of these arguements people make that Christianity is false start this way:

Made up quote:


Christianity is false. Prove me wrong.


That's not evidence, that's an "arguement" presented by someone who just wants to piss people off, not actually have a discussion. Now, let's see if you were really looking to discuss this issue, or just piss people off.



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 10:41 AM
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Interesting how the title has been latched onto..I could just have easily have said "Are Christians Microwave ovens"...it's a title..don't read to much into it.

Thanks Lady V for your educated breakdown...I applaud you

I discuss Christianity because of all the religons it's the one I know most about and have first hand experience of....simple as that really...If I had been brought up in the Musslim faith then surely I would be debating that.

Christians beleive in the bible...maybe not all of it ( though how they can pick and choose what is real and what is symbolic is beyond me) and let us say that 2000 years ago a book was written that said A Giant Orange from the planet Zarko impregnated a Virgin and the baby Half man/Orange..went on to be the Saviour of Mankind....many people would dismiss that as the ramblings of a looney...and yet the bible is accepted as being more plausable...for what reason exactly?

Because it says so in the bible?

Because you believe it too be true?

Because you have faith?

When was the last time anyone saw an angel, or a feeding of five thousand people, or surived for 40 days in the desert with no food or water, or walked on water, or made a blind man see with a stork of his hand.......do these things happen everday and if so why are they not reported?

Everyone knows there are more then 4 Gospels and yet the Catholic church condemned the others as being works of heresy...mmm...so what makes the 4 Gospels fact and the other fiction....who has the right to decide?

Despite what you may think I'm not anti Christianity...whatever you want to beleive and worship in the comfort of your own home is fine by me but as ATS says "Deny ignorance" and yet Christians on this site tend to "Deny evidence" and come up with the old "Well It's a question of faith quote?" ...or " Well show me some evidence that Jesus wasn't the son of God" when the only evidence that he was is contained in a religious document written by Christians!!....

As for the argument idea...whats wrong with that....maybe more people should express their own opinion rather then quoting others who are allegedly in the know.

Take the bible away and Christians have nothing to work with...everthing they believe is contained within and based upon the bible...and thats just not good enough for me.



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 10:55 AM
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BobDylan........its not about some BOOK

It's about faith .......

and what you say ....take away the Book..Bible and you have nothing!

Well I can tell you now that this happened in Russia and God did not die......but instead many more followers of truth came out.....
The more they were condemd and murdered,cut up, imprisoned......the more Christians became true followers of Christ.......and all this without the Bible and quotes.......

As Lady V said.......and I will QUOTE her///
There is nothing wrong with people having faith! This is not my problem with some Christians. If your going to follow a religion, you damn well better have faith in it! I have faith.....without "some" type of faith, mankind is empty!
And that is the very thing of today....many call themselves Christians but lack faith.......
Glory be to God .
helen.....



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 11:00 AM
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You find it interesting that folks latch onto something so blatantly inflammatory as your title? If I started a thread saying, "Michael Moore is an insane fat ^%$#@ who drinks puppy blood because he believes it will make him smarter" and then I reinforce that by eluding to the title ("I must admit, I fear for the sanity of these people"). I'm surprised fewer people haven't latched onto the subject, personally.


...and yet the bible is accepted as being more plausible...for what reason exactly?

Because it says so in the bible?

Because you believe it too be true?

Because you have faith?


What if it is true? You're basing your argument with the pretense that Christianity is false. What if it's not? Wouldn't it make sense, then, that the Bible is believed by so many?

As to someone's faith depending purely on the Bible, that's just not true. The Bible as it exists today didn't exist when Christ came. The letters in the Bible were not written right after the Resurrection, yet people in droves believed. There is more to this faith than a book.

I have not been a Christian all my life. Most of it I was like yourself, feeling pretty bad for all these sheeple who just believed because someone told them to believe. I made one big mistake, though. See, when I debate, I like to get to know the other side's stance and sources before I enter into the argument. I went and did that, planning on helping an uncle see the light. Did a lot of research and it backfired -- I was convinced I was dead wrong. Best mistake I ever made


Could you define blind faith? Is it blind faith that, when I get up in the morning and get out of bed, I put my foot on the floor knowing it's going to support me? The wood in the floor could be rotten, or, unlikely as it is, all of my atoms could align perfectly with the atoms of the floor and I could fall right through (after all, most of matter is just empty space). When my heart is moved in a manner I've never experienced, when I suddenly feel in all my being a desire to be something totally contradictory to what I wanted before my conversion, when everything I see and learn of science reinforces my faith, when archaeology reinforces the validity of the Bible as a historical document, when I came to the conclusion that Christ is my Savior by my own search and not because someone told me this is what I'm supposed to believe, is that blind faith?

EDIT: Forgot to fix my terrible, terrible spelling.

[edit on 3-30-2005 by junglejake]



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 11:18 AM
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well ... what about other religions that are mentioned in this site too? does that not bother you ??? what about wiccans, withces, pagans, buddhists...etc etc etc ...that use their religion to back up their posts??? what about those ??? If Christians are insane for having a religion, than you must assume everyone else with a religion is insane.

and another thing, if you cant stand the Christian posts, why the heck post a thread about christians ??? i mean you just dropped another "nappy on the beach"....



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by junglejake
Could you define blind faith? Is it blind faith that, when I get up in the morning and get out of bed, I put my foot on the floor knowing it's going to support me? The wood in the floor could be rotten, or, unlikely as it is, all of my atoms could align perfectly with the atoms of the floor and I could fall right through (after all, most of matter is just empty space). When my heart is moved in a manner I've never experienced, when I suddenly feel in all my being a desire to be something totally contradictory to what I wanted before my conversion, when everything I see and learn of science reinforces my faith, when archaeology reinforces the validity of the Bible as a historical document, when I came to the conclusion that Christ is my Savior by my own search and not because someone told me this is what I'm supposed to believe, is that blind faith?


You've hit the nail on the head there JungleJake...blind faith to a tee.

Funny how I and a billion others can wake up every morning with a smile on their face, experience moments of pure elation and wonder and not put it down to being a religious experience...also strange that many "Born again Christians" did evil deeds before they found God and use him to forgive themselves for the sins of the past rather then take responsibilty for their own actions and deeds...funny how not many ordinary decent intelligent people don't "Find God" becuase they feel they have no reason to do so...

The basic message of most Religons is "Be good and try and perform good deeds" and yet Christianity has spat on that principle from day one and caused more bloodshed and done more wrong then we will ever know or fathom.

But of course God doesn't get involved becuase he gave us "Free Will"....mmm....he loves us that much that he lets us kill each other, grown men rape newborn babies and Dictators perform acts of Mass Genocide.

Come to think of it...What exactly is Gods role in all this...whats his Job?.....Everyone on earth could pray for no more war and world peace but it wouldn't make any difference would it....so why pray..becuase he obviously isn't listening is he?

For that matter why have churches....what's the point?...surely it should be enough to worship God in your own way and not on a mass organised scale?

But of course in this day of Science even Christians beleive in the Big Bang and not that he created the earth ( which puts the Earthquakes and Tsunami problem to rest)...so they've decided that part of the bible isn't true...but the rest is......do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds??!!

Fact of the matter is he may exist or may not...and if people have problems in life and they and have nobody else to turn to...the idea of God is a nice cushion to fall back on and in order to have that saftey net they need to be totally convinced that he does exist...otherwise they are simply talking to themselves.

As a wiseman once said " If God does exist then he let his own son be strung up and butcherd like a piece of meat...I shudder to think what he'd do to me"


JAK

posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 11:37 AM
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[EDIT]

Stupid temper.

God bless you BobDylan.

Jack

[edit on 30/3/05 by JAK]



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 11:39 AM
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dont blame PROSTETANISM AND CATHOLICISM on CHRISTIANS,...its not the same thing ...The Vatican joined in with Hitler, not Jesus...Protestans burnned people to death not Jesus... you're frustaration is directed to the wrong people...you want to knwo what a Christian should be ..look to Jesus... not men ..

[edit on 30-3-2005 by BaastetNoir]



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 11:42 AM
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are chrtians insane?
no more and no less than anyone else.

any "truth" requires faith in it in order to believe.
faith and beleif are inseperable.
truth is also faith and belief.

you wonder at a christian useing the bible to point out a "truth". do you also wonder at a scientist pointing to a theory or an experiment to point out a "truth"?

point to a covicted murderer who has been "proven" guilty. only he "knows" what happend, or does he even know the absolute truth? maybe he shot someone while tripping up. but all he remembers is pulling the trigger. mabe he has no idea that he stumbled at the crittical point. mabe if he didn't stumble he would have reconsidered. but to him all he "knows" is he did it. i use this as an example. does anyone know or remember for certain absolutly every minute thing that goes in to an action?

we all know the colour green is green correct? no we have been taught that green is green. if someone says green is pink is he wrong? we believe so based on our own understanding. perhapse he was taught that it is pink mabe he has some form of occular trubble that makes green look pink to him, that he is not aware of. truth is subjective.

we all know that the removal of heat causes particals to condence right? how do we explain the fact that ice expands? (i can't remember myself how it is explained) but we take faith in sciance and what we "know" about it. mabe there is an invisible micro being that when he gets cold he pulls molicules together to keep warm, mabe he dosn't like ice. generaly i would say most would scoff at such an idea. but could this in fact be what happens? we have no apsolute way of knowing. perhaps in a thousand years this will becoime known. man would we look stupid then for our belief.

when we die i believe that we will eventualy if not immediatly go to heaven or hell. someone else beleives when we die thats all folks. who is right? how can you know this for certain? you can't.

a lot of people point to the fact that most considered that the earth was flat and point to the fact that the earth is indeed (well almost anyway) round. as "proof" that cristianity is wrong. why? i have never read in the bible that the earth is flat. it dosn't say one way or the other. just because some human guys tried to stop the "hericy" against the "known" fact that the earth is flat. and that they just happened to be "christian".

this is my point . no one has any apsolute proof that their beliefes are the correct ones out there. whether you believe in christ, mahommad, budda, science, ect. we only have our beliefs, and faith that our beliefs are true. truth=belief=faith.



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by BaastetNoir
dont blame PROSTETANISM AND CATHOLICISM on CHRISTIANS,...its not the same thing ...The Vatican joined in with Hitler, not Jesus...Protestans burnned people to death not Jesus... you're frustaration is directed to the wrong people...you want to knwo what a Christian should be ..look to Jesus... not men ..


But who knew what Jesus thought and said BaasterNoir...he never wrote anything down did he..and if he did...It's been supressed.

All you have is the say so of a bunch of Christians trying to build a Mythology...what you know of Jesus you know through others and whose to say they were telling the truth?

You know what you've been told....your a sheep...part of a flock that follows without question....strange that Shepherd Motif is so rife in the Christian faith.

You're skipping around the difficult ideas ladies and gents...failing your faith...try a little harder




Mod Edit: to correct quote format.

[edit on 30-3-2005 by kinglizard]



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 12:42 PM
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We can all hope to become as enlightened as Bob Dylan (not the real Bob Dylan, he's really cool, and wise) one day and know everything there is to know about everything. I guess for now, though, you're just going to have to deal with our insane ignorance. Maybe one day, we will all become enlightened and realize you are right.

[edit on 3-30-2005 by junglejake]



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by BobDylan

Originally posted by BaastetNoir
dont blame PROSTETANISM AND CATHOLICISM on CHRISTIANS,...its not the same thing ...The Vatican joined in with Hitler, not Jesus...Protestans burnned people to death not Jesus... you're frustaration is directed to the wrong people...you want to knwo what a Christian should be ..look to Jesus... not men ..


But who knew what Jesus thought and said BaasterNoir...he never wrote anything down did he..and if he did...It's been supressed.

All you have is the say so of a bunch of Christians trying to build a Mythology...what you know of Jesus you know through others and whose to say they were telling the truth?

You know what you've been told....your a sheep...part of a flock that follows without question....strange that Shepherd Motif is so rife in the Christian faith.

You're skipping around the difficult ideas ladies and gents...failing your faith...try a little harder




Mod Edit: to correct quote format.

[edit on 30-3-2005 by kinglizard]



To Start I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN OR A MEMBER OF ANY RELIGION.... and i do not believe in mocking ppl for their spritual belief... A Christian is a follower of Jesus. True ..as far as we know Jesus never wrotte anything, but neither did Mohamed, Buddah, or any other God of any other eligion.
Its a question of faith of belief, according to poeple i know its a feeling of Peace in your heart that you receive when you pray ... i wouldnt know because i never did that.

What i know is that there are many many posts blaming Christians for thing that "Once Saved Always Saved Baptists" and "Old timer Catholics" did ...Jesus was neither .......... and neither are His followers...

and this is my last post on this thread ... no point banging my head against the wall :bnghd:



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 03:10 PM
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An almost total lack of failure debating this subject...Just goes to show that if you force the issue when your dealing with people of faith they fold like a paper aeroplane.

As for you Baaestnoir...you have nothing new to add and are merley rehashing old arguements.

I'm not disapointed becuase this as what I expected...and now you'll all move onto other posts...rehash the same old argumets...the Christians with sweep things back under the carpet untill they are next presented with some ideas they can't explain.


Round and Round and Round again...Nothing solved, nothing gained.




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