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The XM-8 saga continues

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posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 05:47 PM
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Keeping the M-8 Away From the Troops

by James Dunnigan
March 26, 2005
StrategyPage.com


The saga of the M-8 Assault Rifle continues, and in an unexpected direction. Now there is going to be a competition, open to everyone, for a new weapon to replace the M-16. While many infantry officers are keen on the M-8, mainly because it is basically the highly successful Heckler-Koch G36 assault rifle, there are those who oppose the change. More reliable, lighter, flexible and accurate than the current M-16, the XM-8 was supposed to go into wide scale testing this year. But this was stopped because other American manufacturers wanted another chance to show they could make something at least as good as the G36. Also, buying a foreign rifle didn’t go down too well in Congress, even if it was going to me made in the USA. Some army generals were not happy with the XM-8 either, for both practical and patriotic reasons. At the same time, the army is using this “shoot-off” as an opportunity to solicit new designs to replace the two decade old M-249 light machine-gun (or SAW- Squad Automatic Weapon). This 5.56mm weapon is very popular with the troops, but the existing ones were built in the 1980s and are wearing out. They either have to be replaced with new M-249s, or a new design. About 134,000 new SAWs are needed. The idea for the M-249, and the M-16, go back to the work of M-16 designer Gene Stoner. He offered both weapons to the army in the early 1960s, but the army wasn’t interested. Eventually, the Department of Defense forced the army to take the M-16, but the SAW version of the M-16 was turned down. Some Special Forces troops got their hands on the Stoner SAW, and were very happy with it. It took another decade before this experience finally motivated the army brass to build the M-249. Strange are the ways of bureaucrats, and they never seem to change. Thus the resistance to the G36/M-8.


Hmm, sounds like things are just starting to get interesting.




posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 06:43 PM
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I have a good idea @"About 134,000 new SAWs are needed."

why dont buy this:





(102,000 round torture test at the Yuma Proving Grounds, Yuma, Arizona)

The HK MG43 is a belt fed 5.56mm x 45 machine gun.

Its gas operated with a rotary bolt, it is safe/full auto only, the gun has quick change barrels and "a very strong" belt feeding system. It has a relation to the G36, you can see as example cuz its gas operated and rotary bolt

It has a folding buttstock and a cyclic rate of 750 rpm. It does not have a semi auto selector position, which is a first for HK.

Sand and extreme conditions test have already been undertaken at the Yuma proving ground in Arizona, after which a barrel handguard is to be finalized. There will be also a 7.62mm x 51 NATO version.





Its already introduced in some parts of the german military, it will be used on squad level of armoured infantrymen, mountain infantry, paratroopers and light infantry.



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 11:35 PM
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I thought that the XM-29 was going to replace the M-16? And I think the XM-8 is a very good replacement for the M-16 its easy to modify depending on the situation its easy to clean and its light and reliable.



I don't know why congress does not like this rifle I personally wouldn't mind having it on the field.



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 11:42 PM
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This is good this means theres still time to switch over to the 6.8 SPC rd for the new service rifle and get rid of that 5.56 garbage. The 6.8 SPC round was develop by US special forces and is vastly superior to the 5.56 in just about every aspect.

Soldiers have be complaining about the power of the 5.56 since its introduction. Its time they listened to the guys using the guns and not some egg head number crunchers.



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 11:56 PM
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It looks pretty nice. It's versatile enough were it could save the US Army a lot of money on buying more SAW's. Plus the sharpshooter variant could in theory add a hint of sniper support to every squad, that's pretty nice.

But hey, it's Congress, they don't mind selling out their own people (I'm refering to job exportation), they don't mind letting everything be imported from China. But give them a practical gun that could actually be liked by the soldiers and then they blame it on the budget or something.



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX
This is good this means theres still time to switch over to the 6.8 SPC rd for the new service rifle and get rid of that 5.56 garbage. The 6.8 SPC round was develop by US special forces and is vastly superior to the 5.56 in just about every aspect.

Soldiers have be complaining about the power of the 5.56 since its introduction. Its time they listened to the guys using the guns and not some egg head number crunchers.


They (special forces) also like 6.5mm .



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 04:41 AM
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I HIGHLY doubt that there will be a rifle that will beat the M8, since Hk is one of the best arms manufacturers out there, I have seen some new guns that are upgraded AR-15's with AK-style gas systems.

Als the FN SCAR, the next generation SPEC-OPS weapon is already chosen, which is a Belgian rifle.

But the switch to 6.8mm would be excellent.



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 09:14 AM
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I agree time has come for the 5.56 mm round.



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 09:21 AM
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I kind of like the FN SCAR




posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by ADVISOR
I kind of like the FN SCAR



uhhm... you are sure it would be a good saw?



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 09:32 AM
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Yeah, I definitly like it too, it can even take mags with 7.62x39mm AK-47 rounds! and 7.62x51mm NATO rounds...OWNAGE!



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 10:27 AM
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yo Wodan, did they torture test the weapon by firing almost everytime they reload or they fire and let it cool then fire again without changing the barrel. what was the intent of the test? unjam weapon?



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by Wodan

Originally posted by ADVISOR
I kind of like the FN SCAR



uhhm... you are sure it would be a good saw?


Its a Spec ops weapon to replace whatever they use now. Not to replace the SAW.

The SAW itself (M-249) is a Fabrique Nationale des armes de Gueres weapon too btw.(FN=Fabrique Nationale :p)



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 10:57 AM
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Matrix, I already knew that



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 12:21 PM
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All that is needed is the double drum feed.
Personally, I'm all for more compact, besides if you can't kill it with 100 rnds, another 100 probably won't help. Accuracy by volume isn't accuracy.



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by ADVISOR
All that is needed is the double drum feed.
Personally, I'm all for more compact, besides if you can't kill it with 100 rnds, another 100 probably won't help. Accuracy by volume isn't accuracy.



Ah the Beta clips those things are great a very impressive design. They can even be stored with a full 100 rounds for very long peroids of time without any fear of spring malfunction as they avoid compression springs all together. Something convential mags can only dream of as their springs would give out long before that.

I remember when people sold those mags for like $800 for civilians. Since the sunset of the AWB they cost about $200. Quite a nice price drop


Those clips fit in the XM-8 and any gun that will accept a m-16 style mag

[edit on 30-3-2005 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 03:42 PM
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Yeah I also think its time to switch to the 6.8mm round the lack of stopping power and penetration if the 5.56mm it terrible. The 6.8mm would not be as heavy as the 7.62 but they will offer more in terms of firepower than the 5.56mm.



posted on Mar, 30 2005 @ 06:11 PM
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I cant understand this congressional behaviour. Its not the first time the US armed forces buy equipment from abroad when it is superior to what US can produce. There was this issue with the XM8´s melting handguard in sustained fire but IMO thats a minor problem as it could easily be solved by using another material mix/construction.

What I dont understand is that HK didnt add a rail system, but I guess this could also be added later due to the modular design.

And in my opinion with 3.5kg the FN SCAR is too heavy for a modern rifle, but in my time I carried a G3 so I may be biased concerning the weight of a weapon


[edit on 30-3-2005 by Lonestar24]



posted on Mar, 31 2005 @ 08:32 AM
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Well they dont need to be pussies then the soldiers for carrying some extra weight. I dont mind 3.5 kg as you get increased accuracy in return.



posted on Mar, 31 2005 @ 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by Lonestar24
I cant understand this congressional behaviour. Its not the first time the US armed forces buy equipment from abroad when it is superior to what US can produce. There was this issue with the XM8´s melting handguard in sustained fire but IMO thats a minor problem as it could easily be solved by using another material mix/construction.


The problem with XM-8 is that there was no competition, so (theoretically) noone knows if it's really the best option. They simply took the 5.56 component form OICW and made it to the XM-8. I personally think FN-2000 is better
. And assault rifles are symbols of armed forces (AK-47, M-16), it should be really made in US if possible. Besides XM-8 is cool, light, reliable,but nothing really new. So is it worth the investition?



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