Prayers, spells and wishes

not in the same sense as today. no go do research the rest of my statement is right on the ball.

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
here is the short version. I have a longer one but will have to find it.
[edit on 29-3-2005 by stalkingwolf]

Thanks for that.. it's got me intrigued with the history of wicka/paganism.. actual facts of the religion [pre cursades] is fragmented unfortuantly. I'd love to take a look in the vatican vaults- I'm sure there is alot of knowledge still in existence that is being hidden.

Originally posted by RedBalloon
Personally, I believe thought is a powerful thing. All those people thinking and wishing create a lot of energy. It's not 'God' that answers specifically, but the power of thought and will.

True wishing - really feeling that desire and focusing on it, prayer, and spell casting all have the common thread of *focused* thought.

I agree.. I imagine that all energy is inter connected in a kind of web.. if prayers were more legitimate than spells.. spells would not work yet apparently they do.. some explain this way with 'thats the devil'.. I do not understand this as there is no devil in witchcraft. I've heared rain dancing works as well.. there is definently [for me] a universal energy.. not necessarily 'god' but that is how most choose to percieve it. Thats fair.. but either everyone's wrong or everyone's just 'a little bit' right. The concept of 'god' just makes it more tangible.

[edit on 2-4-2005 by riley]

I believe that the difference in prayers, spells, and wishes is to whom you are imploring assistance from. Obviously, you would be imploring God for assistance through prayer. In fact, you could be surrendering power over your life to God when you pray. So when a prayer is answered, it would be reasonable to believe that God is the power behind the result considering he is the one you addressed your prayer to. The power in prayer may very well be the selflessness of the action of asking God to intercede in your life. However, in spells and wishes you are imploring some other power other than God. Whether that power is your own personal power or some other kind of power derived from a spirit, demon, etc. may depend upon your methods.

In my opinion, spells, prayers and wishes are all the same. I can't say I am Christian, but I am studying wicca. And so far, I can honestly say they are the same. I've read a few studies (that do not lean toward any one religion) that says that these three things are just affirmations. If you say something enough you would believe it. Like if I am about to talk in front of a crowd and I keep telling myself that I can do it. If I say that enough, I'll start believing a can do it.

Also, in my opinion and I think I read this in a book somewhere, too. The candles and the incense, etc in any religion are mainly for focusing. There was another technical word to use, but I can't think of it right now. But, they are just there to put the user into the right mind set. For example most people simply must be in a church to pray, while other must cast a circle or light a candle. A non-religious example could be how sometimes I must be in a library to get some studying done.

Originally posted by checkers
However, in spells and wishes you are imploring some other power other than God.

Well that would depend on which concept of god is believed in.. and as far as I know many wickens summon energy from nature. If god created nature.. then isn't it using energy from god anyway?

I dont see how Christianity can be 7,000 years old, as posted earlier. It is roughly 1,680 years old, when the beliefs of what jesus taught were corrupted by emperor Constantine in 326 and Christianity was declared the official state religion of Rome. Since many of the original Writings by the early followers were burned at that time, and again in 545 by the Pope, we will never know jesus truly meant for anyone to follow.
The teachings of Jesus were blended into Mythriac, Sybilline, Egyptian, Pagan, Goddess, and several other religious teachings popular at that time. It was no different than a Political compromise to bring as many people into the roman religion as possible; we will give you divine purpose, if we get to hoist the virgin mary as the queen of heaven. ( which is the worhsip of ISIS, Diana, and various other competing female deities).
This is the truth of religious history, deal with it.


Knowing this, praying to God is reaching to your Creator, in the manner you believe. if you want to call it spells, incantations, ritual, whatever, does it really matter? before jesus came, the manner in which you prayed to God was far different than after he left. Were the people of the OT heretics? are the people of the NT heretics to the people of the OT? There is something seriously wrong with Continuity in the Bible. I believe it is the actions taken in 326 and 545 that destroyed the original teachings, and left us corrupted leftovers, which we call the Bible.

WHY you are praying, WHY you are reaching out to your Creator is far more important than lighting candles, or the label used to describe reaching out to God.

However, in spells and wishes you are imploring some other power other than God. Whether that power is your own personal power or some other kind of power derived from a spirit, demon, etc. may depend upon your methods.

Please provide concrete verifiable proof for this statement.

Originally posted by moonbeam13
the funny thing about this topic is that praying came first from Catholosim, and they took it from the spells pagans used in an attempt to abolish paganism. infact the Catholics took many things from paganism and incorprated it into their faith.

Actually it was Jesus who tought us how to pray. When asked how to pray Jesus knealt and said the our father prayer.

Originally posted by stalkingwolf

However, in spells and wishes you are imploring some other power other than God. Whether that power is your own personal power or some other kind of power derived from a spirit, demon, etc. may depend upon your methods.

Please provide concrete verifiable proof for this statement.

oh for christs sake. please provide concrete proof that spells or prayer actually have a replicatable outcome. beyond that, should these things be proven to exist, i personally believe that they ae nothing more than a quirk of quantum physics. the idea that we all actually 'create' our reality by observation and will alone is really quite fascinating, and needs far more attention than is given today. your chanted 'spells' are only a conscious tool to solidify the desire in your subconscious mind. you in turn bias your judgement, your very being at a subliminal level towards this outcome. then in the grand quantum machine of the universe a tiny fluctuation amplifies itself to have visible, real effect. the only problem is every single sentient being's perceptions are fighting against your own intent. hence if we can assume everything i say here is total truth, then it wouldnt be un-reasonable to assume that is the reason its so hard to make a spell, telekenesis, etc, work. especially when you have a scientist watching, literally bending his will against yours, to make you fail.

[edit on 4-4-2005 by forsakenwayfarer]

Originally posted by Croat56

Originally posted by moonbeam13
the funny thing about this topic is that praying came first from Catholosim, and they took it from the spells pagans used in an attempt to abolish paganism. infact the Catholics took many things from paganism and incorprated it into their faith.

Actually it was Jesus who tought us how to pray. When asked how to pray Jesus knealt and said the our father prayer.

yes and no, prey was used by the celtics long before Jesus. so it was more reinforceing something already in use

I can understand why so many are quick to dismiss prayer as nothing but fantasy. I believe we have all prayed at one point or another for guidance, or help, from a higher being. I, personally, have knelt countless times to ask for help and have been disappointed most of the time. There are those times though, that I have been truly sincere and asked for what I needed in my life, simply discarding my wishes or desires, and honestly, at those rare times, I feel that my prayers were answered. I can not say if it was simply an example of tapping into ones self or true, divine intervention, all I know is that it worked for me. I can not say if spells are real or not, but I think it’s safe to assume that if they are, faith and sincerity would be an important part.

Originally posted by riley
Someone can pray to a god for someone to fall in love with them [for example], others might cast a love spell [both prayers and spells can use encarnations] and someone might say "I wish". Why is a spell considered sorcery and a prayer not? Apart from the cultural and religious origins, they all seem to be the same thing- is it only the language that is different?

Just from experience. Wishing doesn't do anything. It's basically just waiting and hoping for the best. Though there's something positive to be said for hope, it doesn't make things happen. I can testify that praying to God works. I know, I know, it doesn't matter what I bear witness to...

Pray, train, study.
God bless.

Originally posted by saint4God
Just from experience. Wishing doesn't do anything.

Your experience as a christian? Of course it's not going to do anything if you don't believe it will. I've had wishes/spells [of sorts] come true before.. [but of course it's hard to tell if they were just spookie one offs]. My point was that the only difference is language. The meaning is the same- even with the stigma of 'witchcraft'.

It's basically just waiting and hoping for the best. Though there's something positive to be said for hope, it doesn't make things happen.

And the difference beteeen hope and faith is? I'm inclined to agree. Hope can be a curse.

I can testify that praying to God works. I know, I know, it doesn't matter what I bear witness to...

Of course it matters.. some say spells work.. you and others say prayer works. I say they are the same thing. I'd only have a problem if you thought what you witnessed was more credible than something someone else witnessed. The 'my god is bigger than your god' is a bit too alpha male for me.. no way to measure it for sure..