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NEWS: Arizona Civilian Border Patrol Targeted by MS-13 Gang Members

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posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 12:42 PM
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Call me a racist, but here it goes..

I hate Mexico and all the trash they send over the border. THey print pamphlets that explain how to properly enter America ilegally. This "Vincente Fox" is a joke. No help for Iraq, or Afghanastan, but he expects us to open our doors to his helpless sorry a** people.

"We need them to do jobs that Americans dont want!" BS !! We wont do it for 2 bucks an hour. They will. They take all low end jobs that used to pay descent and work for slave wages and screw it up for all of us.

They should be deported and whoever hires them should be as well. Its a worthless country thats trying (and succeeding) in dumping ALL of its trash on our side.




posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 12:57 PM
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spliff
Okay..racist. Happy now?


Doesn't matter that most of MS-13 is from other South/Central American countries right?

I appreciate all those posters who have provided measured responses. I don't want this thread closed like the last one I created where people got all heated. Let's just keep it as civil as it has been so far, it's so much more pleasant.

I agree, these aren't the typical vigilantes..for the most part.

However, according to my source at least, at least one Neo-Nazi/White Power group is supporting the movement and sending reinforcements. It's unclear if they will be as typically obvious as they usually are, and get themselves tossed by the people organizing this event, or if they're going to be stealthy and what not to try and guarantee a place on the front lines.

On a possibly related note, a man was arrested yesterday, driving shirtless, with a car full of guns and assorted drugs, ammunition, and at least one knife (in the drivers side visor). When the police asked him what he was doing, he said he was bringing supplies to Indian kids.


The man was arrested on I70 in St. Louis, and the article took pains to mention he was carrying a bunch of bibles.
The man claimed to be travelling to South Dakota.
abcnews.go.com...



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 01:17 PM
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My question is, who the hell do they guys think they are? Teach US a lesson? Why dont they teach some kids english, before they tunnel em in here? Theres a lesson we ALL could benefit from.

Ive been in favor of shoot to kill orders on illegals from the begining. You want to come here...fine...do it the LEGAL way. Our laws are in place for a reason. If we started sniping them coming over the flood would cease. But oooh no..we cant do that.. dont want to hurt anyones feelings..plzz...



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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You're right spliff, our laws are in place for a reason. We also have a law against shooting people except in self defense. So our laws only apply to those who aren't citizens, those trying to gain entry? That doesn't make sense at all.

That being said, I have a lot of problems with the laws in this country, and I feel it's the ethical duty of every grown man to disregard those laws that infringe on his principle freedoms. Now, shooting strangers isn't a principle freedom, so, in my book at least, it's not allowed.

You simply can't say the laws apply to them but not you. That's not the way this country works. The laws are supposed to apply equally to all people. Even though the illegals don't have the rights of citizenship, you still have the RESPONSIBILITIES of citizenship, you are still prohibited from killing people, doesn't matter if they're aliens or not (unless it's in self defense, or in some states you can kill in defense of property).



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 02:00 PM
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What are the laws concerning an invasion? Are we allowed to shoot then? What if they are firing on us from MEXICO? Do our laws apply then?




I feel it's the ethical duty of every grown man to disregard those laws that infringe on his principle freedoms. Now, shooting strangers isn't a principle freedom, so, in my book at least, it's not allowed.


Well, its part of MY freedom to able to work a decent paying , safe job. THEY infringe on that by taking any work for any pay, regardless of any safety or pay factors. Shooting strangers? No. Shooting those who infringe on my freedoms as an American? Yup!

To all who enter LEGALLY, welcome to America..To those who circumnavigate the system...LOCK AND LOAD..Theres a deterent



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 02:11 PM
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spliff
I have two more points of logic for you.

1. If somebody shoots at you, duck, or turn sideways and return fire. That's self defense. ( I know you're just angry and it was probably a rhetorical question)

2. If corporations like WalMart, and small companies like restaurants and bars, stopped hiring illegals they wouldn't be able to find work except in day labor and landscaping. And the FBI or INS could step up stings against those businesses to discourage the practice. The source of all this is not just the immigrants, it's the American companies who persist in hiring them. Don't forget that. I know you're angry. Believe me, I know. It's really frustrating to have to obey the laws when none of the other children on the playground do. But look, our government suffered from the same frustration and did dirty deeds behind our back to compensate, and look where it's gotten us? It's misery.



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 02:32 PM
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Couldnt agree more with ya. Hold the companies responsible to. However, it doesnt make them gaining illegal entry here right. Its the main problem with our whole society. NO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILTY. Makes me sick (and angry)..



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
2. If corporations like WalMart, and small companies like restaurants and bars, stopped hiring illegals they wouldn't be able to find work except in day labor and landscaping. And the FBI or INS could step up stings against those businesses to discourage the practice. The source of all this is not just the immigrants, it's the American companies who persist in hiring them. Don't forget that. I know you're angry. Believe me, I know. It's really frustrating to have to obey the laws when none of the other children on the playground do. But look, our government suffered from the same frustration and did dirty deeds behind our back to compensate, and look where it's gotten us? It's misery.

As to the second point, I agree that this would be a necessary step in the right direction. .Businesses, private citizens, (and gov't agencies, don't forget all the illegal immigrants that were/are working at our airports) do need to be held accountable and need to pay the price for ignoring the laws which engendered the current crises.
We do need to take it a step further though. We need to look at the future and start taking steps to protect ourselves. One of the latest dodges that is being used by the illegal, is identity theft as well as forged documents. In a recent posting, there was a story on a person attempting to get work at Target. They qualified for the position and they were in the process of doing their HR paperwork when she was refused the job. The reason, their Social Security number was already logged as being employed at Target. Not once but 7 times!
With the number of hackers breaking into ChoicePoint as well as other databases, this problem will grow exponentially.
There are already a number of “Card Shops” operating in the Dallas Fort Worth area that the local police forces are attempting to shut down. Unfortunately, just like a crack house, as soon as the cops shut down, two more popup just around the corner.



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 07:18 PM
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I looked at the (2) Mexican maids who clean my house on Fridays....and I wonder if their illegals?

I looked at the (4) Mexican gardeners who come and mow my big lawn on Monday afternoons and I wonder if their illegals?

I never asked!! I pay them in cash.......so maybe Im part of the problem!!

Maximu§



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 01:11 AM
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LA Maximus
Either you're a kid or a seriously confused adult.

You never thought of this issue before? Like, maybe if I, like, don't pay them money, they won't, like, you know, come here to make money..and stuff...



Wow man. Just..Wow.

You EMPLOY six (illegal?) aliens and WONDER if you're part of the problem.



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 01:26 AM
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Call me paranoid, but I think we are being set up. Vincente Fox is a Socialist. He is closer to Castro and Chavez than he is to us. There are reports of Russian and Chinese troops operating in Mexico. The Mexican government and military are both corrupt. I think these two groups are allowing and assisting groups like MS13 to get terrorists into this country in return for drug money kickbacks. When America is reduced to third world status from the financial strain and our laws sufficiently protect the illegals, then the trap will be sprung. Fox will open his border to the Venezualans. They will use their new Russian Migs equipped with Castro's bilogical weapons for a nice strike on us. The smuggled in terrorist will hit from the inside, and the Russian and Chinese troops will come in as the clean up crew. Red Dawn anyone?



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 01:37 AM
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papagrinch
I suppose it could happen, but I think the more likely scenario involves an implosion of America from purely domestic issues. There's so much tension in this country right now, it could be cut with a knife. The polarization is nearly complete, at least in the eyes of those people who believe what they see on television. The rest of us are just trying to survive.

It is possible that we would be invaded by Mexico, with the help of the other socialist countries, there's a lot of anger and resentment. Mexico itself probably wouldn't attack, but their allies might. As far as reports of Chinese operatives in Mexico, I think that's unproven and simply another boogeyman, until I see some evidence to the contrary.

Same goes for Russia, I've seen no credible information to that effect.

However, there IS a revolution, a general revolution going on in the South/Central Americas, and it could easily sweep up and into our country. The recent events in Bolivia, the stance taken by Venezuela, the tensions manufactured by the US in Columbia, it all seems to paint a picture of wealthy white American meddlers trying desperately to save their investments. I'm not even going to go into the long list, but if you do some digging, there have been more revolutions in the past five years than in the twenty or so previous, and there have been more revolutions since Jan 05 than in the year previous. It's all heating, steaming towards a boil.

There're always local sympathizers who are willing to sell out their country and their national interests for profit, those people will be the first to fall. They're the buffer between our manipulators and those being manipulated. Every time one of those pawns fall, the king gets a little more nervous.



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 09:50 AM
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WyrdOne, Here is some interesting news on this subject.
The following is a news update on this issue.


TUCSON, Ariz. - The U.S. government is poised to launch a multi-million dollar security initiative along a 260-mile stretch of the Arizona-Mexico border this week in an effort to shut down the main artery for illegal immigration into the United States, MSNBC.com has learned.

Here is the link to the news article.
U.S. agency poised for big border security operation
I hope that they work hand in hand with their civilan counterparts the Minutemen.



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 10:11 AM
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papagrinch, I think there is a problem with your therory in that fox knows if he opens up his country to be the staging area for an invasion of america by chinese or russian troops that they will most definatley take over his country as well. Even crooks watch out for other crooks. Just my opinion.



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 10:31 AM
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Do you know what I see happening here?
I think the U.S. Administration wants to see the ACBP have a confrontation with any group that disagree with their beliefs of a properly controlled boarder. A few people get killed from whatever organizations. The Bu#s say this must stop, but because the majority of our Armed Forces are out of country and in theatre we have no choice but bring in Marshal law until we can free up troops. Alternatively, use NATO troops. Just a crazy thought.



[edit on 29/3/2005 by Sauron]



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 10:50 AM
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This is precisely why these 'minute men' shouldn't be patrolling the border. Someone's going to get killed, and there's going to be violence. MS13 is a violent gang that engages in human smuggling, they'll have no compunction at all about killing these vigilantes if they come across them. And its almost certain that these 'vigilantes' are going to go running to the border patrol and government to protect them, sapping more resources from the border patrol, and causing the very problems that they'll then use to justify that the border patrol is ineffective.

IOW, when they say 'these attacks have to stop' then the best way to do it is to stop them.



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 11:07 AM
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This could all be averted if the Government would step up and secure the border. A border patrol that is spread way just doesn't cut it. Why not militarize the border? National Guard? I'm not saying cut it off and have Military personnel waiting with guns pointed at the border A'la South Korea. But Military patrols, training grounds, heck even a bombing range(if illegals can cross that, they deserve a green card
) would be alot better than an understaffed border patrol.



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 11:37 AM
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Nygdan,
What is the difference with what the MS-13 gang is already doing today? They are already trafficking drugs, illegal immigrant as well as members of their gang into the US to kill the population with their drugs. Their members are already outright murdering and raping people here in the US. The MS-13 gang is already a major concern for ICE. Read the posts above.
As for the "vigilantes' minutemen, they are under orders to only use their weapons to protect themselves and or others. When they find the illegal border crossings, they report them to the Border Patrol.
Are you saying that the Border Patrol would be overly taxed by "allowing" these citizens to protect the border and thus lend the Border Patrol assistance? That is like saying that Neighborhood Watch groups are overly taxing the local police departments. I am sure that this would be news to your local police department.
Or are you saying that it is okay to allow this behavior by the gang should be allowed to continue since they are willing to use deadly force in order to further their blatant disregard of not only the laws of the United States but also the laws of their countries of origin? Should these animals be allowed to continue their rampage since they are willing to fight to continue and our government cannot / will not take steps to stop them? At this point in time, The Border Patrol only has enough personnel to post 1 person for every ½ mile along the border (Note, this number is straight from their own website). This one person is supposed to be able to stop these 100’s of people who flood across the border daily.
I am sorry, until the government steps up and admit that this is a real problem and starts to take steps to rectify the problem, then the American citizen needs to not only help the government maintain the security of our borders, but also the American citizen needs to step up and protect themselves, their loved ones and their property.

Yes the government is “hand waving” and saying that they are trying to stop the influx of the illegal immigrants, drug trafficking, slavery as well as to stop the entrance into this country by possible terrorists. Unfortunately I am not in agreement that they are taking the issue seriously when they have only slated to increase the number of Border Patrol personnel this year by a whopping 210 people. Now, instead on 1 patrolman for every ½ mile, it will then be 1 patrolman for every 33/64ths of a mile.



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 11:39 AM
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I have wondered why the Government allows so many Illegals into the country. I saw a nova documentary on population demographics. The documentary said that countries in Europe and Japan will have half the population that they do today due to decreasing birthrates. the majority of the people will be old people that are not as productive as young people. India and China are the opposite, they will have an increasing population with the majority of them being young and in their most productive stage of life. The documentary indicates that America is different than Eroupe because of its loose immigration policies. Now we all know that during the next 30 years America is going to have the largest population ever turn 65 and thus retire. In order for America to remain competitive and spur growth we will need many more young people from somewhere. Any way that is my thoughts on why we allow the border problem to continue. Article



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Now, instead on 1 patrolman for every ½ mile, it will then be 1 patrolman for every 33/64ths of a mile.


I hope that figure isn't the total Border Patrol Agents divided by the distance of the border. If it is, you have to divide it into shifts, regular days off, vacation time, etc. It wouldn't even be close to 1 to 1/2 miles in actuality.




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