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US populous "brainwashed" from an early age...

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posted on May, 8 2005 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by WeBDeviL
It's true to an extent.

But it's not government propaganda. It's the media propaganda. Conformism is the key to popularity. The youth (who will be the U.S.'s future leaders, engineers, etc.) Are brainwashed to conform because it is seen as "hip" or "hot" or what have you.

Just a side effect of a free-market economy.


Can't you see that the government is just a tool for big business though?

yeah, a "free"-market economy is a load of hogwash when you think about it - free to do what? Free to invest in a heartless multi-billion dollar company who sees you as nothing more than a figure at the end of a profits report?

Its easy to see why I'm a Communist...


[edit on 8-5-2005 by ghostsoldier]




posted on May, 8 2005 @ 09:21 PM
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Its easy to see why I'm a Communist...


Just curious man...are you really a communist? or were yo just saying that?
Do you support the communist party?



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier


Originally posted by WeBDeviL
It's true to an extent.

But it's not government propaganda. It's the media propaganda. Conformism is the key to popularity. The youth (who will be the U.S.'s future leaders, engineers, etc.) Are brainwashed to conform because it is seen as "hip" or "hot" or what have you.

Just a side effect of a free-market economy.


Can't you see that the government is just a tool for big business though?

yeah, a "free"-market economy is a load of hogwash when you think about it - free to do what? Free to invest in a heartless multi-billion dollar company who sees you as nothing more than a figure at the end of a profits report?

Its easy to see why I'm a Communist...


[edit on 8-5-2005 by ghostsoldier]



strange enough how communism never really worked as well as free-markets. if its so great, why are they showing up on homebuilt rafts?



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 09:32 PM
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strange enough how communism never really worked as well as free-markets. if its so great, why are they showing up on homebuilt rafts?


HAHA, That's a good one man.....


Hey GS, have you ever been to a communist country? An old soviet country, cuba..something???? Cause the people there think alot different than you. Ive been to quit a few myself.



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 09:35 PM
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Communist, eh? Well, some things that you can do with a free-market economy:

1) Begin your own business and have at becoming a multi-billion dollar company yourself. With communism, especially the totalitarianist type, you can't do that.

2) Invest what you want. Make money how you want.

I've done it my friend, and yes, the free-market economy does work.

I agree, how often have we seen communism work? Hmm..well, the Soviet Union is a good example..

Oh wait, they were economically beaten and destroyed at the hands of a free-market economy under Reagan.

=]

-wD



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by SportyMB



Its easy to see why I'm a Communist...


Just curious man...are you really a communist? or were yo just saying that?
Do you support the communist party?


nah, I REALLY am a Communist...

For the millions, Not the millionares...
Socialist Alliance
Resistance, the Socialist youth organisation...
Resistance
The alternative to biased corporate media...
GreenLeft Weekly

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for (Cubans I think you were refering to) turning up on boats to America... Who knows why they are doing it, (maybe its money, maybe they wanna vote, maybe they wanna be rich, maybe they was to be part of the 'trendies' - who knows maybe they are being funded by a Miami-Based terrorist group (CANF)) ...

What ever the reason, it is impossible to deny that Cuba has freedoms that the United States doesnt... ie Free and COMPOLSORY Education, Free UNIVERSAL Housing, Free UNIVERSAL Health-Care etc etc...



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 09:54 PM
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I personally have not been to a Communist Country - but I have spoken face-to-face with people from and/or have been to Cuba, Czech, and Venezuela...



Originally posted by SportyMB
Hey GS, have you ever been to a communist country? An old soviet country, cuba..something???? Cause the people there think alot different than you. Ive been to quit a few myself.


My uncle and auntie live in the Czech Republic (formerly Czechoslovakia) and they have both said that under Communism the wealth was spread, and more people were living CONTEMPTLY ... Now with the re-amergence of capitalism they have Prostitution, Ilegal Gambling, Orgnanised Crime, Homeless people etc etc...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While a free-market economy works (to an extent) look at all the problems they have... like the US for example...

Institutionalised Racism against Blacks, Hispanics and other minorities...
Highly developed and powerful Organised Crime sydicates...
Thousands of homeless people...
Thousands of starving people...
Prostitution and Gambling...
Drug-Dealers who get rich off peoples misery...
Uselessly accumulated wealth...
Different socio-economic classes...
A fundamentally flawed education system...

A fully developed Autocracy basically...

In an advanced Capitalist country (like the United States) a very small percentage (lets say 10% for examples sake) have control 80% of the accumulated wealth in the country...

What good does it do to have someone like Donald Trump have a bank account that looks like this: ($1,000,000,000,000) When the average person is (-$15000) in debt?

What does that much Accumulated Wealth DO for ANYONE!!! - Think of all the problems that money could solve...

[edit on 8-5-2005 by ghostsoldier]



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 10:00 PM
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FREE, at the expense of those who actually decide to do a god damned thing! im a lazy bastard at heart, but i sure as HELL dont expect someone else to foot my bill!



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by forsakenwayfarer
FREE, at the expense of those who actually decide to do a god damned thing! im a lazy bastard at heart, but i sure as HELL dont expect someone else to foot my bill!


With a proper education (not possible under Capitalism) - You wouldn't have an attitude like the one you have presently now...

Because you would have a different motivation - for the betterment of Society - rather than merely working to get a paycheck...

You should read; marxists.org - Man and Socialism in Cuba by; Ernesto Che Guevara



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier


Originally posted by forsakenwayfarer
FREE, at the expense of those who actually decide to do a god damned thing! im a lazy bastard at heart, but i sure as HELL dont expect someone else to foot my bill!


With a proper education (not possible under Capitalism) - You wouldn't have an attitude like the one you have presently now...

Because you would have a different motivation - for the betterment of Society - rather than merely working to get a paycheck...

You should read; marxists.org - Man and Socialism in Cuba by; Ernesto Che Guevara



touche comrade! resorting to insulting my intellect is what i was waiting for. youve already beat yourself, and shown the egotistical idiocy of your so called 'cause'. time to find a new one there, rebel.


and with my inferior 'capitalist' education, i am "presently now" going to practice my bowel movements.

[edit on 5-8-2005 by forsakenwayfarer]



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by forsakenwayfarer
touche comrade! resorting to insulting my intellect is what i was waiting for. youve already beat yourself, and shown the egotistical idiocy of your so called 'cause'. time to find a new one there, rebel.


and with my inferior 'capitalist' education, i am "presently now" going to practice my bowel movements.


I'm not saying you are not intelligent, I am saying that the Education system is designed to make you a name and number that pays your taxes at the end of the year - thats all you are to them... Where as under a Communist education one would be taught to contribute to society in another way...

And for someone who has Bob Marley in their Avatar you seem pretty right-wing to me... (no offense, just curious) ...



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 10:36 PM
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i dont disagree with your 'names and numbers' comment. actually this is a thought of my own. i dropped out of school a few months ago actually. beyond that however, as the saying goes i choose the lesser of the two evils. our society cannot exist presently without money. either you become TOTALLY socialist and abolish money in the extreme, or you retain a FREE market. there is NO inbetween. however, with 99% of the population being so ridiculously materialistic, money is here to stay. until we reach the technological point where no physical labour is nessescary, we MUST err on the side of the "free".

edit: and yes, i suppose i could be considered right wing, although i dont really wholly agree with the ideals supported within. granted, i have a righteous hate for the pretzel logic of liberalism. its like selling all the lights in your house to pay your electric bill.

[edit on 5-8-2005 by forsakenwayfarer]



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 11:33 PM
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This thread would be here even if the US was perfect.

Obviously your a Communist, so you come with an agenda. That agenda would include bashing on the USA, the most powerful Capitalist country in the world.

Yes, people here must work to make a living.
No, the government will not spoon feed you.
Yes, if your willing to work hard, you will achieve success.
No, you don't have to have to work if you don't want to.
Yes, this thread is BS.

[edit on 8-5-2005 by Onewingeddemon]

[edit on 9-5-2005 by Onewingeddemon]



posted on May, 10 2005 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by forsakenwayfarer
i dont disagree with your 'names and numbers' comment. actually this is a thought of my own. [...] as the saying goes i choose the lesser of the two evils. our society cannot exist presently without money. either you become TOTALLY socialist and abolish money in the extreme, or you retain a FREE market. there is NO inbetween. however, with 99% of the population being so ridiculously materialistic, money is here to stay. until we reach the technological point where no physical labour is nessescary, we MUST err on the side of the "free".


I can see where you're coming from... But I disagree with you on your point about Communism being the great evil... On the contrary I believe it is basically Utopia, the bestest of the best way of running a society... It just makes sense... Did you know that even Eienstein was socialist...

But I agree with you on the fact that true and pure Communism cannot exist with money... But the sad fact of the matter is; we still live in a Capitalist world - Socialism is supposed to be a GLOBAL revolution... But when it didn't take shape all over the world (mainly due to Stalin and Western Imperialism) we were left with tiny countries like Cuba and now up and coming Venezuela, standing out like sore thumbs - They are just waiting for a 1st-World country to get behind them and turn red...

But I do not know if you know much about the Venezuelan revolution taking place... But they are in a transitional phase at the moment...

Capitalism -> Socialism -> Communism -> Autonomous Living (Anarchism)

It cant all happen over night - which is why we need to build a revolution everywhere and anywhere - in order to make the world a better place... But eventually, once the global revolution takes place - there will be no money, sexism, racism, destruction of the environment etc etc...

One has to realise, that all these problems stem from a Capitalist society... If one were to look at Cuba - Right up until 1991 (when USSR fell) Cuba had no gambling, no prostitution, no organised crime, no-one stole from eachother... It wasnn't until they breifly brought in the US dollar (as a legitimate form of currency) that these problems arose again...



Originally posted by forsakenwayfarer
yes, i suppose i could be considered right wing, although i dont really wholly agree with the ideals supported within. granted, i have a righteous hate for the pretzel logic of liberalism. its like selling all the lights in your house to pay your electric bill.


Or throwing your self on a fire to avoid being drowned... What would you define your political orientation as?



Originally posted by Onewingeddemon
This thread would be here even if the US was perfect.

Obviously your a Communist, so you come with an agenda. That agenda would include bashing on the USA, the most powerful Capitalist country in the world.

Yes, people here must work to make a living.
No, the government will not spoon feed you.
Yes, if your willing to work hard, you will achieve success.
No, you don't have to have to work if you don't want to.
Yes, this thread is BS.


If the US wasn't taking over other countries to feed its Imperialist/Capitalist agenda and got rid of the institutionalised racism in the country, and actually went towards a Socialist direction - NO, this thread would not be here...

Yes, humans are a thinking and creative animal designed for working - We get an endorphin buzz when we create...
No, the government is not going to spoon feed you, the wealth would merely be distributed according to need rather than profits...
Yes, if you work hard you can become a success BUT... I think if one were to do some research (I will use Belgium as an example (the US is worse))

It costs $20-Million dollars to set up a factory (Means of Production)... The workers in that factory sell their labour to the factory owner - in order to make their money (ie to survive) BUT, even if that factory worker NEVER spent a penny out of their pay checks, by the time they reached 65 (Retiring age) they would STILL not have the $20-Million dollars needed for them themselves to become a Capitalist (Factory Owner) - Instead, they are locked into a system whereby they work to get money (to buy food, housing, family, wives, cars, etc etc)... They are locked in the system...



The Invisible Laws of Capitalism

The laws of capitalism, invisible and blind for most people, act upon the individual without his awareness. He sees only the broadness of a horizon that appears infinite. Capitalist propaganda presents it in just this way, and attempts to use the Rockefeller case (true or not) as a lesson in the prospects for success. The misery that must be accumulated for such an example to arise and the sum total of baseness contributing to the formation of a fortune of such magnitude do not appear in the picture, and the popular forces are not always able to make these concepts clear. (It would be fitting at this point to study how the works of the imperialist countries gradually lose their international class spirit under the influence of a certain complicity in the exploitation of the dependent countries and how this fact at the same time wears away the militant spirit of the masses within their own national context, but this topic is outside the framework of the present note).

In any case we can see the obstacle course which may apparently be overcome by an individual with the necessary qualities to arrive at the finish line. The reward is glimpsed in the distance and the road is solitary. Furthermore, it is a race of wolves: he who arrives does so only at the expense of the failure of others.

I shall now attempt to define the individual, the actor in this strange and moving drama that is the building of socialism, in his two-fold existence as a unique being and a member of the community.

I believe that the simplest approach is to recognise his un-made quality: he is an unfinished product. The flaws of the past are translated into the present in the individual consciousness and constant efforts must be made to eradicate them. The process is two-fold: on the one hand society acts upon the individual by means of direct and indirect education, while on the other hand, the individual undergoes a conscious phase of self-education.

by Ernesto 'Che' Guevara - excerpt from Man and Socialism in Cuba


[edit on 10-5-2005 by ghostsoldier]



posted on May, 10 2005 @ 10:37 PM
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Been to North Korea and seen how well socialism is doing there, ghostsoldier?
You think Americans are brainwashed, seems to me that virtually every oppressive socialist regime you can name is "brainwashed."
I notice you keep mentioning poverty stricken Cuba and Venezuela, no mention of North Korea or any other nation that practices socialism?

Why is that?
And why is it that under socialism, the people are poor and poverty stricken?




seekerof

[edit on 10-5-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on May, 10 2005 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Been to North Korea and seen how well socialism is doing there, ghostsoldier?
You think Americans are brainwashed, seems to me that virtually every oppressive socialist regime you can name is "brainwashed."
I notice you keep mentioning poverty stricken Cuba and Venezuela, no mention of North Korea or any other nation that practices socialism?

Why is that?
And why is it that under socialism, the people are poor and poverty stricken?




seekerof

[edit on 10-5-2005 by Seekerof]



www.lewrockwell.com...

i find tolkien to have had great insight on such matters.

"It’s all these ‘gatherers’ and ‘sharers’, going round counting and measuring and taking off to storage. They do more gathering than sharing, and we never see most of the stuff again" (Tolkien 2001, p.976). Moreover, "everything except Rules got shorter and shorter, unless one could hide a bit of one’s own when the ruffians went round gathering stuff up ‘for fair distribution’: which meant they got it and we didn’t" (p.989).



posted on May, 10 2005 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
[...] You think Americans are brainwashed, seems to me that virtually ever oppressive socialist regime you can name is "brainwashed." I notice you keep mentioning poverty stricken Cuba and Venezuala, no mention of North Korea or any other nation that practices socialism?

Why is that?
And why is it that under socialism, the people are poor and poverty stricken?


The reason I keep mentioning Cuba and Venezuela is that they practice a much purer form of Socialism, closer to Communist ideal - The reason I dont mention places like N. Korea and the USSR is because they are/were basically a buerocratic autocracy... Where by, The state controls the wealth, and gives it to itself, rather than spreading it amongst the people...

And by no means is Cuba and Venezuela perfect - there is things wrong with them... But they pale in comparrison to the Cuban and Venezuelan gains they managed after the revolution...

You would find that Cuba and Venezuela are 3rd World countries - they are dirt poor - but the socialistic revolutions that are taking place are making the people less poor...

For example; did you know that Venezuela is the 5th largest producer of the worlds oil, and that ALL the profits from that were going into US multi-billion dollar companies rather than to Venezuela? - Now that some of the Oil Feilds have been nationalised Venezuela is now able to give everyone free education, free food, free accomodation etc etc...

The biggest thing with Socialism/Communism is; that the wealth is spread instead of accumulated...

We have yet to see a Socialist country in full swing - because a 1st World country has NEVER had a revolution - It is imperative to understand that Socialism cannot take place without Capitalism being in place first...

Imagine what a 3rd-World country could do, if it had a 1st-World infrastructure... THIS IS WHAT WE NEED!



posted on May, 10 2005 @ 11:00 PM
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Yeah...right.
Well, tell you what, ghostsoldier.
Watch these programs tonight on DiscoveryTimesChannel and let me know just who is brainwashed and which system, capitolism or socialism, is most advantageous, k?


Don't mind the times.
The shows, all three of them, are currently running repeat all night and a.m. long.
Two of the shows are done by freelance journalists [BBC and one independent]. Very informative. Seen the ones on Cuba and Venezuela or China? Good ones, too. Quite informative.

"Brainwashing"?
We don't hold a candle to them....




seekerof

[edit on 10-5-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on May, 10 2005 @ 11:10 PM
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Every country "brainwashes" or endows their citizens with a sense of loyalty or patriotism. The reason is simple; by "brainwashing" or instilling patriotism, the government -- all governments -- develops an element of respect for the governments' institutions, leaders and laws. Without the respect for the "authority" of the government, anarchy would reign. Of course, there is a potential for abuse but, nevertheless, patriotism is a necessary element for any government to maintain control over their populations. Perhaps the United States does it through flag waving and the "pledge of allegiance, but is this any difference than the Red Banners of China, the countless statues of Stalin, or the multi story images of Stalin, Castro, Hitler, Sadam Hussein, Che Guevera, etc. ?



posted on May, 11 2005 @ 05:05 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Watch these programs tonight on DiscoveryTimesChannel and let me know just who is brainwashed and which system, capitolism or socialism, is most advantageous, k?



Two of the shows are done by freelance journalists [BBC and one independent]. Very informative. Seen the ones on Cuba and Venezuela or China? Good ones, too. Quite informative.


I dont get those channels (I don't live in America)

But, its not even a case of being 'brain-washed' in the case of the media - Its all about whos interests it serves... Who do you think owns the Discovery Channel? - Who do you think owns FoxNews...

The editors of these channels are put it places by the business who owns them - So all they are interested in is; making more money - They capitalise off what they think the public need to hear... Do you think that all the multi-billion dollar companies want to have people inspired into taking control of their work-places themselves - OF COURSE NOT! - Because then, all their money would go out the window...

So the people grow up (etc) watching a one-sided scenario - and because its been happening for decades - They soon lose interest into the alternate reality that is out there (Perception is reality...)

The education system plays a major part in this aswell - They dont want kids and adults to be able to think critically because this would not be beneficial for the work-place they are molding kids for... Under the Capitalist system people are nothing more than; names and numbers who pay their taxes at the end of the year (nothing more) ...

When a global class conciousness arises - We will see who was right or wrong regard the way forward for humanity... Communism is natural, we work in socialistic environments (we co-operatively contribute to make things)

eg; imagine a screw, imagine all the people involved in making that screw - The miners, the factory workers, the transport, and the distributer - AT WHAT POINT do we need a Capitalist taking all the profits for himself in that scenario - NOT AT ALL...

Communism is natural we work is socialistic environments - but for some reason we have a very small amount of people who control the means of production (ie a Factory) - And thus, they feel it is democratic and just - for them to keep almost all the profits for themselves and pay the workers as little as possible...

Where is the justice in that... We dont need Capitalists, they need us (the Workers) - We in reality have the power - we just need to learn how to use it... We dont need Capitalists we need Communists...

Tax the Rich, Not the Poor - Burn the Rich, Equality for All



[edit on 11-5-2005 by ghostsoldier]



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