Originally posted by RichardPrice
Trust Noone. I dont see why they wouldnt at least consider something like this.

Against the UK?
What? That just defies logic, what happens if they are in a joint conflict **which is the only way the UK can fight right now** and the other side gets their hands on the codes....oh would you look at that the entire UK naval task force has no air cover....

If the British 'blood contribution' and position as so-called 'best ally' isn't sufficient to stop some Americans pratting about with this code stuff then, IMO, sod them; we'll go European every time from now on.

(.....and just watch British public opinion endorse this as quick as you like as this 'we'll sell you multi-millions £ worth of airframes etc but they can't work without the codes that we won't give you' garbage becomes common currency)

Don't be so sure it is the USG who is stalling the release of the source code. This could be a case where the manufacturer is refusing to release it's "proprietary code" in order to facilitate the lucrative field analysis and consulting side of military contracting... I am not saying it is wrong just saying that it is in all likelihood a corporation trying to keep hold of a very lucrative future income tweaking the source code for individual governments and uses of the craft.

This is what happens when the U.S. does joint projects the other side want our codes, I hope this is a lesson for the US military so that form now on we can develop our jets by our self like we did with our other fighter jets.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
This is what happens when the U.S. does joint projects the other side want our codes, I hope this is a lesson for the US military so that form now on we can develop our jets by our self like we did with our other fighter jets.

We are helping fund the project, so why shouldnt we have access to the sourcecode?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
This is what happens when the U.S. does joint projects the other side want our codes, I hope this is a lesson for the US military so that form now on we can develop our jets by our self like we did with our other fighter jets.

Of course we want your codes, so we can work the damm thing.
I think its fair considering we are paying for it as well.

Your not really good at this "tactics" thing or "diplomacy" thing are you?

Well, here a pre-emptive strike, I see things could get heated soon, so let's keep control of our emotions gang.

The UK is only paying a small amount of the actual project Uncle Sam is paying for the bulk of it. And were the ones who have ordered the most planes out of the lot. You can still operate the F-35 without the codes the codes are only if you want to make changes to its system.

Which the RAF and RN will want to do, if there is no flexibility in the system then it is useless. Besides it doesn't matter that the UK is investing less in the programme than the USA, a partner is a partner and the UK is the only 'level 1' partner and so should have full access to EVERYTHING relevant to the F-35B variant.

Originally posted by stumasonWhy are they not releasing them? Is it not our plane as well? Grrrrrr

why complain? it'll cost you less if we fix such problems for you will it not? our military doesnt want a country spying on you and stealing the codes, and considering your mod is not funding your intelligence services very well probably makes them weary about it.

Originally posted by namehere
why complain? it'll cost you less if we fix such problems for you will it not? our military doesnt want a country spying on you and stealing the codes, and considering your mod is not funding your intelligence services very well probably makes them weary about it.

Your not giveing us the codes, so we cant modify them..
Also our intel services are fine thank you very much!
We fund them quite appropriently we'll have you know.

Alas, I have to side on the Brits with this one. I doubt there is anything in the avionics that the UK could not duplicate themselves.

If we were talking about say a directed energy weapon or something then I may see the point.

However, I see trouble ahead for the JSF if the EU opens the doors to China wepaons sales. Not commneting on the rights or wrongs of that, just making an abservation.

Originally posted by FredT
Alas, I have to side on the Brits with this one. I doubt there is anything in the avionics that the UK could not duplicate themselves.

If we were talking about say a directed energy weapon or something then I may see the point.

However, I see trouble ahead for the JSF if the EU opens the doors to China wepaons sales. Not commneting on the rights or wrongs of that, just making an abservation.

We wont sell the JSF to them...we are not that stupid...we respect the US and respect they dont want thier enemies getting stronger, we would certinly not back stabb you and sell them the JSF.

Originally posted by devilwasp
Your not giveing us the codes, so we cant modify them..
Also our intel services are fine thank you very much!
We fund them quite appropriently we'll have you know.

arent intelligence services part of your defense budget which is underfunded? really against china you would be easy to spy on, like we were when our military budget was the same level under clinton, china has our stealth aircraft codes, missile components and nuclear tech from spying on us. 2.4% of your gdp isnt enough to hide things from such a country wanting such technology, those codes arent exactly for standard tech you know.

This kind of attitude towards our allies is one major reason we have fewer and fewer of them.

Originally posted by devilwasp
We wont sell the JSF to them...we are not that stupid...we respect the US and respect they dont want thier enemies getting stronger, we would certinly not back stabb you and sell them the JSF.

but china is very sneaky, they were quite good at stealing from the USSR then us during the 90's.

Originally posted by namehere
arent intelligence services part of your defense budget which is underfunded?

Yes, actually if you look its specific bits that are underfunded.
Are you trying to call MI6 and MI5 incopetent?

really against china you would be easy to spy on, like we were when our military budget was the same level under clinton, china has our stealth aircraft codes, missile components and nuclear tech from spying on us. 2.4% of your gdp isnt enough to hide things from such a country wanting such technology, those codes arent exactly for standard tech you know.

Against ANY nation we can defend ourselves, MI6 and MI5 are excellent agencies....even the CIA admit that and respect them
GDP doesnt equal wealthof a nation.
We have very good intelegence gathering and security.
Unless you think the entire cold war was won by the CIA...

but china is very sneaky, they were quite good at stealing from the USSR then us during the 90's.

What you think we leave our jets ungaurded?
You think we arent trustworthy and are "unable" to defend ourselves?
Get real, we have managed to defend ourselves for over 60 years against every threat imaginable.

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

Originally posted by devilwasp
We wont sell the JSF to them...we are not that stupid...we respect the US and respect they dont want thier enemies getting stronger, we would certinly not back stabb you and sell them the JSF.

Sorry you misunderstood me. I know that the JSF would never be sold to them. However, congress here is already talking sanctions to any company that starts selling arms to China. The JSF may get hit if say BAE sells some non related avionics to the PLAAF or something.

Originally posted by FredT
Sorry you misunderstood me. I know that the JSF would never be sold to them. However, congress here is already talking sanctions to any company that starts selling arms to China. The JSF may get hit if say BAE sells some non related avionics to the PLAAF or something.

Boeing is doing the same, why shouldnt BAE be involved, they sure as hell wouldnt give them anything boing is giveing them.
They also wouldnt give them ANYTHING to do with the JSF.

I know that, I was just giving an update on the political issues going on here. Im not saying its right, just say that this is the talk.