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Germanys reunion, a joke?

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posted on Mar, 27 2005 @ 07:37 AM
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Fifteen years ago on November 9th 1989, the Berlin Wall fell. Within a year East and West Germany were reunited. But unification was carried out on a capitalist basis. Thus it was a counterrevolution. But the movement in the East did not start with that aim in mind, far from it! The early movement had many elements of the political revolution...


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Fourteen years and a trillion euros after reunification, nearly one in five Germans would like to see the barrier that split the country during the cold war put back, according to a survey.

A poll by the Forsa institute found that a quarter of west Germans wished the 15 million east Germans could be cut off again by the Berlin wall, while 12% of east Germans did not want to be part of the united country.
Many westerners said they were disgruntled because they had had to foot the bill for reunification - 24% said they had suffered financially as a result.
In the formerly communist east, where wages are still below western levels and unemployment is twice as high, a third said they were no better off financially because of unification and the end of communism.
The lingering divisions have erupted in recent months as Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's government tries to reduce unemployment and welfare benefits in the name of reform, touching a nerve in the east.

Westerners are sometimes disparagingly referred to as arrogant "Wessies", while easterners are called "Jammer Ossies" (whining easterners) in the west. (true :lol




Despite all skepticism in relation to the present political system it grants 57 per cent of the East German that it can to them in the comparison at present before the turn today personally better (West German ones: 20 per cent). it feels 29 per cent of the East German that for it personally nothing changed (West German ones: 56 per cent). At the East German it believes 14 per cent that it can to them now more badly (West German ones: 24 per cent).

Are not we badly, but everyone feels, it goes "downhill". That is the present tendency situation in Germany. The causes for it are in the new countries completely different than in the old Federal Republic. There it went since 1950 continuously upward. There were jobs, one could money make, the personal prosperity and the prosperity of the municipalities and the whole country rose annually. To the cold war one had gotten accustomed, because the latent danger took already 30 years. The GDR did not exist in the heads of the West German ones practically. ' the Russian ' was not to be seen, the Americans played the strong "guard" and the many in Germany stationed GIs brought money in the country. One did not have other problems. Unemployment does not rise, state and municipalities has ever fewer moneys, increase on the savings account. The cause is fast constituted: The billion-transfer into the former GDR.



I don´t want to "hustle" about this situation..We can´t change.
In my opinion it is kind of self-centredness from the past russians garrison to imprint their heavy marxist ideology. But they had no choice - the citizens...

I am sorry for the quality of this post, but keep in mind that I am not from England or the USA or other english speakin country´s, I dont wanna run into trouble with this..Thank you very much!

I hope you get a little insight in this problem.

Sources

Storyal
Stern
Guardian
and..Mynaeris

best wishes

dacruz

[edit on 27-3-2005 by dacruz]




posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 07:26 AM
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nice, I think the most people here know that already, didn´t they?



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by mauigateway
nice, I think the most people here know that already, didn´t they?


What? you serious? I dont´think so, I just see, that people dont know what to add..

They dont know the real story cause the most in here, are from other, foreign countrys.

What you think about that story above?

Does anyone have a idea to change the mental situation?

[edit on 28-3-2005 by dacruz]



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 01:04 PM
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I didn't know that there was still a political split, so at least you educated me!

I can imagine there being problems with unification, but after 14 years, you would think that there would be some progress!

I suppose the East was predominantly Industrial, much like the North of England, and probably similar in the wealth gap that they have with the South, and the employment opportunities.

Perhaps the Germans should look at how we are regenerating run down and deprived areas of our country, it may help the situation!

Still, there is a (friendly) animosity with North and Southern English, ie: We are southern lager drinking pansies, and they are stupid Pie-eating Northerners....but it is all banter



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by stumason

Perhaps the Germans should look at how we are regenerating run down and deprived areas of our country, it may help the situation!


well, England wasn´t ever divided. Or am I wrong?


yeah, its the problem, 14 years after!

I dont see much progress, even worst that right-wing parties joined the Landtag (legislative assembly of a German state).



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by stumason
Still, there is a (friendly) animosity with North and Southern English, ie: We are southern lager drinking pansies, and they are stupid Pie-eating Northerners....but it is all banter


And then theres the middle bit which the north and south pretend doesn't exist



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 12:23 PM
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Germany has it's problems since reunification and fair enough some resent the fact uniting the country has not been cost-free and instant nirvana but this is all rather silly IMO.

What went before was no solution either, unity was always going to have to come and be dealt with sooner or later and it was always going to cost.

In some respects one might see this as maybe the final major cost to Europe of WW2.

The division of the German nation has indeed helped create a feeling of 'other'.
But that does exist within many many countries (especially in Europe); as has been said the UK has the whole 'home international scene' between England, Scotland, Wales and (N) Ireland as well as the so-called 'north- south divide'. France has historically always had the division between town and country people; Belgium has it's division between French speaking and Walloon, Germany has always had the provincial divisions etc etc.

It's really nothing new but gradually it is getting less relevant, as will happen eventually between east and west in Germany. Such a massive undertaking was always going to take a long time and be difficult IMO.

As for the German 'far-right'? I'd worry a lot more about them were it not for the fact that Germans today are amongst the most peace-loving people in Europe and that each and every time the extremists have looked like gaining any real and significant power the ordinary German people have turned out in their masses to stop them.

Just like the French did with Le Pen a little while back.
Excellent. More power to them.



[edit on 6-4-2005 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 12:23 PM
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What you're not tracking is that this is a sign of a very deep cultural divide.

As it happens, I was there in Germany when the Wall went up.

Before that time, it was hard to get into Russian controlled East Germany. I did, in fact, get in to see East Berlin, which at the time was treated almost as a separate country, with checkpoints and a lot of restrictions. The difference in the two countries couldn't hve been more stark -- West Germany (and West Berlin) under the capitalist system was thriving, though you could still see the effects of two world wars on the country and in the town. West Berlin was a bright, cosmopolitan city.

East Berlin was... scary. There were no bright clothes, there were no throngs of people. I saw people dressed in gray, scurrying about, and behind all the lovely buildings we saw on the tour were the bombed-out shells of buildings still standing from WWII. People didn't look prosperous; they looked frightened.

It takes only a single generation to change a lifestyle under a dictatorship. They adopted a lot of the Russian ways (including the expectation that everyone had a job and pollution didn't matter) and ethics (bribery would get you everywhere.)

That culture held the land and the people for nearly 50 years.

It's unreasonable to expect that it will change in 15 years. People change slowly, and cultures change slowly. They need to address these problems themselves and find a good solution. But to say it's a mistake is more than a little short-sighted. In time, they may decide to go their separate way -- who knows. But they had a lot of advantages in reuniting with Germany... compare what's happening to them and what's happening in other republics that broke away from Russia (like Kurzakstan.)



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 08:59 PM
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The weird thing is, germany has only been unififed since the Napoleonic era, which really wasn't all that long ago in terms of history. And even then it wasn't as 'unified' as it is now. For a long time, apparently, Prussia and Austria were competing with each other for dominance over the other german duchies and what not.

So while the idea of a solid germany is 'normal' for most moderns, its really not part of the overall status quo in a sense.

I'd think tho that most of the 'split' now is simply over the integrating EG, which of course brings down WG, and was probably a let down for EG also. But in a generation or two they'll probably think seperation inconceivable.



posted on Apr, 6 2005 @ 11:17 PM
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I used to patrol the East German Border at the Fulda Gap and this is news to me also. A Trillion Euro's is an insane amount of money and Im sure the Russians left quite an environmental disaster at their previous bases when they pulled out (water and ground pollution).

It will all pass as the new generations come up...Im talking the kids born in 1991 and up. To them Germany is one country....there is no east and west, just like after the American Civil War, Northerners and Southerners hated each others guts, but as that generation died, the new ones came in with new ideas.

Germany will be fine....give them some time.

Maximu§



[edit on 113030p://333 by LA_Maximus]



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by Byrd

It's unreasonable to expect that it will change in 15 years. People change slowly, and cultures change slowly. They need to address these problems themselves and find a good solution. But to say it's a mistake is more than a little short-sighted.


Could not have put it better myself. The effects of almost 45 years of living under Communist/Totalitarian rule does not go away quickly. It takes a long time. Several generations. Those differences will melt away in time. (IMO)

[edit on 7-4-2005 by Facefirst]




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