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From Reality to MYTH?

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posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 08:29 PM
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Tonight, duh-doy!, I'm bored and I wanted to see if you guys think Durkiham's thesis is true or not. Just for the heck of it, and b/c ppl will know who I'm talking about I'll use Backstreet Boys/BSB as an example of it, as well as known myths, arch. sites, etc.

Durkiham's thesis: That all ritual/myths in a cultural is created by revered people(i.e. Thomas Jefferson, Gorge Washington, Sinbadad, etc.), natural occurances(i.e. Noah's arch, etc.), and "supernatural" phenomenah(i.e. Edgar Allen Poe's Ghosts, The Black Cat ghost in D.C., etc.) that impact the culture and it's people by reinforcing the philosphies of the ruling class
(for survival) in that culture(like the Navajo, etc.).

What does BSB have to do with this? It's called fanfiction, ironically much of it is better than Stephen King's or Nora Roberts' last novels. Anyway, whatever the tales maybe friendship, mysteries, romances, comedies, just plain weird stories, their "mythology" has allowed them a permenanent place in American culture. That people in the future world will believe to have been more popular than they actually are. Do you believe this has happened with aliens or any other possiblities-think of some, I'm a little sleeply- ANY IDEAS, PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAASSSSSS(HA HA)e?

I could name examples all night, so please tell me what you think.

[edit on 3/25/05 by BSB2005]




posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 08:45 PM
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(oooohboy!!!! (much rubbing of hands!!!!))

I'm a for-real graduate student of anthropology, and one of my research areas happens to be popular culture and fanfiction and the Internet (okay, that's three... and that's not the limits of my research work.) One of my friends/mentors is Dr. Toni Levy, who does a lot of work in this area, particularly wth manga and anime: www.awn.com...

(Toni is LOTS of fun! We met at a fanfic convention, in fact.)

She's just one of several serious scholars who study this phenomina.

In any case, Durkheim is often cited in papers about fanfic and fan culture.

How will the future assess this? Well, now... you're making a few assumptions of your own. First, there's a number of books and papers on this and there will be even more in the future (there's been a couple of studies of the Buffyverse, for instance (one VERY bad one, too) which takes into account the Internet phenomina, something that won't exist in this form in 20 years. In the future, they'll be able to more correctly assess the impact of these things.

Products may be tied up in copyright issues and other wrangles (an example I've wondered about is X-Files/Lone Gunmen... who actually controls all the rights there? I'm not sure that Carter does have them all. A second problematical product is "Buckaroo Banzai" with ownership problems tied up by a couple of deaths.) Some product access will be controlled by corporate decisions. But the fanfic will take the path that religions take when a governing body attempts to control things and will make their own mythologies.

You can't predict what will survive (my current research, though, is on crossovers and who is likely to read/be involved in what.) You can't predict the outcome if they decide to pump up product for an old favorite (the various Treks, or the re-emergence of Lord of the Rings after the 1960's.)

And, of course, as culture changes with time, the stories will either adapt or die IF they can find that new niche of meaning for the current culture.

...y'know, I could go on about this stuff all night (g).

Fun, isn't it?

But no, they won't miss the context in the future. We scholars are already in the field, writing and interpreting and gathering the data.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 09:31 PM
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Antropolgy, LOVE IT!!! LOVE IT MORE THAN BSB ACTUALLY! But if you could teach me more I would love it!!!!!!! If I didn't have to drop out of college because of grades and fiscal issues I think I would've became a teacher or scholar in that field so please tell me what ya' know? Books(the public can purchase), other thesises, etc. I still think b/c of all the crossovers and fan popularity, even now and the popularity of BSB SCI-FI/WICCA(n) fanfics that they will still be popular and go in a sort of this a "Christan Celeb" in the early 21st century and a "Best Group of the 20th/21st century" sort of thing in the "Entertainment History Books" b/c their are more than 10,000 fanfics, heck I'm still thinking about writing a parody fanfic after 3/4 years.



posted on Mar, 26 2005 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by BSB2005
Antropolgy, LOVE IT!!! LOVE IT MORE THAN BSB ACTUALLY! But if you could teach me more I would love it!!!!!!! If I didn't have to drop out of college because of grades and fiscal issues I think I would've became a teacher or scholar in that field so please tell me what ya' know

I love it, too. It's a wonderful field and endlessly fascinating. And I hope you'll look into financial aid -- I was going over my IRA and noticed that when I got my bachelors', my salary doubled that next year. The teaching certificate boosted the pay again, and when I got my first Masters' (this will be my second one), my pay doubled again.

And my grades weren't THAT good. But I had good recommendations and good GRE and I had done some writing that got published. I think that's why they took me. I drive the profs a little nuts, though.


Books(the public can purchase), other thesises, etc.

Let me recommend a paper that I'm using in my study on related groups in fandom:cdmc.georgetown.edu...

The title is "Between the Hero and the Shadow: Developmental Differences in Adolescents’ Perceptions and Understanding of Mythic Themes in Film" and it's particularly interesting because it talks about how "dark heroes"/conflicted heros can be misperceived by younger teens.

I noticed this in studying crossovers -- that when I looked at who crossed over which genres, there was a significant difference in the crossings if I looked at a younger group of fan writers (fanfiction.net) and older writers (various archives.) For instance, younger writers tended to cross Harry Potter with Manga. Older writers went for other crossovers for Harry.



I still think b/c of all the crossovers and fan popularity, even now and the popularity of BSB SCI-FI/WICCA(n) fanfics that they will still be popular and go in a sort of this a "Christan Celeb" in the early 21st century and a "Best Group of the 20th/21st century" sort of thing in the "Entertainment History Books" b/c their are more than 10,000 fanfics,

Really? That big? Hmm!

I don't think anyone has looked into BSB/other groups fanfics. Tv/movies yes, but not the other groups. Can you recommend some similar ones for me to look at? I'd love to go start looking at it.

Heh. My profs are SO gonna do a double-take at this one. Anthro profs tend to have ONE field that they're very good at (because there's so freakin' much reading and research that it's hard to do multiple arenas of interest) and to kind of get blindsided by some other strange things. My advantage is that I can speed read and so get through far more material than most folks can.


heck I'm still thinking about writing a parody fanfic after 3/4 years.

I always encourage Evil Fanficcing. If you get good betas, you turn out to be a much stronger writer. And don't forget writing some articles for some of the fan websites. Everyone needs some good nonfic once in awhile.

You can do something peculiar like compare Nick-fic with the Campbell Hero Archetypes. That's always good for a ker-blink from someone! Or do something a little more silly and fun: compare the BSBs to the main hero archetypes in romance novels:
www.likesbooks.com...



posted on Mar, 27 2005 @ 02:57 PM
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Try 'Buffy'(The Vampire Slayer), X-men, and most of their SCI-FI/Fantasy fics(especially the group ones), they actually tend to either remind me of 'the Ghostbusters'(remeber them) or "The Power Rangers" depending on how authoritative the author makes Kevin(The "Leader" of the guys) or the managers/handlers are in the stories.

And yes, I do see alot of the Romance archtypes in their romances; it's sorta scarey. BOO! How did you get published so early?



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 12:59 AM
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(chuckle) I didn't get published early. You're younger than my kids and I'm probably a little older than your parents.

My first piece of fanfic was for the original Star Trek series... back when it was first on the air.

So is there a series that people like to try and cross BSB with? Inquiring anthropologists want to know.



posted on Mar, 29 2005 @ 03:38 PM
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Most ppl use Geocities(bad connection occasionly), but you can E-mail someone one and ask them if it's apporitate to use. There are still BSB fans starting up sites. Heck, they even have gay ones(but I don'y like them, they make me feel bad so I don't read them.) If you want to read a good one for anthropology sake, go to yahoo/google.com and type in Refuse2lose, "Backstreet Boys" fanfic, "Seven Days". "Seven Days" is almost legandary one the web, and the sequal is awesome and think me and you could have a good U2U's about it. Well, enjoy Byrd.




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