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reply posted on 25-3-2005 @ 02:15 AM by poonchang
Great article!! In fact, let's continue with it:

Conflicting diagnoses
Cheshire was not available for an interview, the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville said in a statement. It said that at the request of the state of Florida he observed Schiavo at her bedside and reviewed her medical history but did not conduct an extensive examination of her.

In his affidavit, Cheshire said Schiavo showed several behaviors “that I believe cast a reasonable doubt on the prior diagnosis” of persistent vegetative state. For example, he said, her face brightens and she smiles in response to the the voice of familiar people such as her parents. Her eyes don’t track moving objects consistently, but “she does fixate her gaze on colorful objects or human faces for some 15 seconds at a time,” he said.

Although Terri did not demonstrate during our 90-minute visit compelling evidence of verbalization, conscious awareness or volitional behavior, yet the visitor has the distinct sense of the presence of a living human being who seems at some level to be aware of some things around her,” Cheshire said in the affidavit.


Hmm, he only spent 90 minutes and did not conduct an extensive examination. But that's a hell of a lot more than a lot of other experts have spent with her.

But the first part of that sentence, in fact, “starts to meet the criteria for vegetative state,” said Dr. Gene Sung, director of the neurocritical care and stroke section of the University of Southern California.

Sung, who has not been involved with the case, said of Cheshire that “unfortunately his feelings, and possibly his religious beliefs, are affecting his medical decision.” The Center for Bioethics and Human Dignity, which notes on its Web site that it was founded by Christian bioethicists, lists Cheshire as its director of biotech ethics.


wha wha WHAT?!?!?!

Sung said the original diagnosis was based on repeated examinations by “very distinguished neurologists” and he called himself as comfortable with that diagnosis as he can be without examining Schiavo himself.

Dr. Roger Albin, a professor of neurology at the University of Michigan who also was not involved in the Schiavo case, agreed. “I don’t think there’s any reason to doubt the diagnosis... I don’t think her evaluation could have been done better.”


armchair diagnosis, huh?

He also said he’s not aware of any evidence that a person could emerge from years in a persistent vegetative state and enter a minimally conscious state, especially in a case like Schiavo’s, where blood flow to the brain had been temporarily cut off in 1990.

Last examination in 2002
The diagnosis has been a court matter, both in 2000 and in 2002. In the latter year, a Florida judge agreed with four neurologists that Schiavo was in a persistent vegetative state. Brain scans and examinations were conducted in 2002, but no new neurological evaluation has been ordered since, and the medical record has been closed.

In 2002, Dr. Ronald Cranford, an expert on persistent vegetative states who was brought into the case by Schiavo’s husband, testified that key centers of Schiavo’s brain probably had no viable neurons left. She was not actually fixing her gaze on her mother, as had been suggested, but rather showing a reflex action seen in patients in a vegetative state.


the prosecution rests

(Cranford said Thursday he still has no doubt the diagnosis is correct and that Cheshire is “flat-out wrong.”)

Two other neurologists also agreed with the diagnosis, including one appointed by the court to examine and evaluate Schiavo.


the prosecution rests...again

Testimony of parents' experts
But doctors representing Schiavo’s parents at the 2002 hearing had a different conclusion. Dr. William Hammesfahr, a Florida neurologist, said his examination of Schiavo found she is “definitely aware of her mother” and communicating through following instructions and in looking at people. And a radiologist said a brain scan in 2002 showed more normal appearance than one in 1996 and said there was a “significant probability that she would improve” with certain treatments.


whoa, why wern't we told about that!?!!

But the court was not given any objective data to support that latter assertion, said Dr. Timothy Quill, director of the Center for Palliative Care and Clinical Ethics of the University of Rochester Medical Center, writing in Thursday’s issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.


Oh.

Hammesfahr has been a figure of controversy. In 2001, the Florida Department of Health accused him of falsely advertising a neurological treatment and exploiting a patient for financial gain. The treatment is “contrary to current neurological knowledge,” the department said. Hammesfahr denied the accusations, and in an interview Thursday he said the probation and fine against him were overturned on appeal.


OOOHHHH!!!

On Thursday, Dr. Lawrence J. Schneiderman of the University of California, San Diego, a specialist in bioethics of medical futility and end-of-life care, said in an interview, “He’s a quack, to put it the politest way I can.”


quack quack

Hammesfahr said he believes Schiavo can be helped by treatment and that numerous other neurologists, some of whom actually examined Schiavo, agreed.

“I’m not the only person who has said she can be rehabilitated,” he said. “Are we all quacks?


You're right. Doctors can't agree on this case either.


reply posted on 26-3-2005 @ 01:56 AM by angeleyes101
Originally posted by BangorangRufio
Originally posted by angeleyes101
Would you starve your dog or cat? Would you starve and not allow water to them or a sibling, brother, sister, parent?


Yeah, I would. If that was the only legal way for them to die. I wouldn't want to see someone I love living as a vegetable for 15 years. They would be living a pointless life, wasting money, and possibly going through pain. No one knows what people who are in that condition feel. For all we know they could be in constant pain. It seems cruel to keep someone like that alive for so long.







You wouldn't.but her parents want her to live, are willing to care for her..can't see a problem with that.

You said "No one knows what people who are in that condition feel. For all we know they could be in constant pain. It seems cruel to keep someone like that alive for so long."
Exactly! My point....so, if you don't know and the expert octors don't know, how do we know she is not begging for food and water, but just cannot say "Please feed me and give me water, I'm dying, and i want to live."How do you know she is not suffering, this way, nobody knows, and that is the issue, a moral issue of treating a human as a human no matter what. Let her husband go on with his life, his guilty conscious can't while she is alive, he is breaking her parents hearts by doing this, the ones who love her and want her alive......can;t do anything......because he wants her dead.


reply posted on 29-3-2005 @ 10:52 AM by drogo
one thing that has real p---ed me off in this isthat we are told that it is cruel to let her continue to live but yet they f'ing STARVE her.
from what i understand starvation is one of the most painfull ways to die. now of course they can not "put her to sleep" like a dog because that would be murder. as far as i'm concerned the removeing of food and water is not only murder but cruel and unusual punishment not to mention torture!
mabe we should do the same for these pyscopaths they are calling doctors. just strap them down and not feed them or give them water, just to see how they like it before they die. oh sorry wouldn't we then be murdering them.

if she had to die they should make life as comfortable as possible. even those about to face the electric chair are treated decently, and chances are they killed someone.she had after all been condemed to death for the crime of being severly mentaly handicapped. so why not just give her one hell of a nice trip with morphean. but no we can't do that just make her suffer one of the most cruel forms of punishment for her crimes and starve her to death.how can this be even considered as humain treatment. why not have fun and play with some hot irons, a rack and hell draw and quarter her at least it would have been quicker.

i think it is time to review laws. if someone is sentanced to death it should be done as quickly and painlessly as possible. not drawn out with torture. i hope she comes back and haunts the ba----d that was formerly her "devoted" (b--- s--t) husband. mabe cause him to die in the most horrific way possible, full of terror.


reply posted on 30-3-2005 @ 04:19 AM by angeleyes101
Originally posted by Bout Time
And understand a misdirection when it's beating you over the head!
maybe focusing on the facts that several reports "die" deaths by being "starved" for media coverage, thus "killing" more Americans than this one!!!!

- Rumsfeld's Pentagon took away $200 Billion in spending authority from the Air Force

- This US government is arming Pakistan

- Medicare applications have been shifted to being so complex, it's estimated that less than 5% of the 20 million low-income American who qualify will utilize it.

- Bush's ratings are below 45%, yet judges & creationist religion is being rammed down our throats

- Ebola is breaking out in Africa, while Avian Flu is killing people in Asia, both of which can end up here

- Deaths & breathing related illnesses are skyrocketing due to carcigens in the air....with further relaxing of industry air pollution standards coming

Yet, you bemoan this one woman. You never made a dead frog's muscles move via electric currents in biology class, huh? She's not Jesus, nor is she at an iota of the same brain capacity that Reeves was.








Can I say you are very ignorant....!!!!!!!!!!
Everything you said was a decision that was made by the government,..........and congress.Religion is not being rammed down our throats ...if you don't like it......simple............turn off your tv, or, bypass the religious threads.
Ebola has been a problem that the scientists have been trying to figure out how to fix, not that they don't care about the thousands or more dying from it,....and don't put me into a class with the ones 'who don't care about other things in society' I simply believe this woman deserved more than heresay..and a life..now they may have to put a breathing tube in the pope..how ironic...they have to insert one in ihm to keep him alive, which is only right , yet they took Terri's out to make her die..so in regards to your bold statement.........my head is not up my A$$ i welcome all opinions but not insults! or just plain ignorant people.

[edit on 30-3-2005 by angeleyes101]

[edit on 30-3-2005 by angeleyes101]


reply posted on 30-3-2005 @ 09:30 AM by Bout Time
Originally posted by angeleyes101
Can I say you are very ignorant....!!!!!!!!!!
Everything you said was a decision that was made by the government,..........and congress.Religion is not being rammed down our throats ...if you don't like it......simple............turn off your tv, or, bypass the religious threads.
Ebola has been a problem that the scientists have been trying to figure out how to fix, not that they don't care about the thousands or more dying from it,....and don't put me into a class with the ones 'who don't care about other things in society' I simply believe this woman deserved more than heresay..and a life..now they may have to put a breathing tube in the pope..how ironic...they have to insert one in ihm to keep him alive, which is only right , yet they took Terri's out to make her die..so in regards to your bold statement.........my head is not up my A$$ i welcome all opinions but not insults! or just plain ignorant people.


No insult directed or intended, please don't take one away from my post.
I was speaking to those fellow posters to yourself that expend anything more than the most minute period of time talking about this grand mis-direction.
There are to many real & important transgressions to follow & rectify, there is too obvious a catering to a radical fringe element by the party that controls all three branches of government, to be missed here.

On this woman: please don't compare her to Reeves or the Pope, as there is no comparison...she died long ago & is kept alive artificially. I too have issue with the tube; it should be immediate death.
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