Getting Robbed at the Gas Pumps

I just realized also, that my post above didnt take into account that some states base their gasoline tax value per gallon as a percentage of the gas cost six month's prior.

IE - expect state gasoline taxes to be adjusted upward soon also and solely based on the recent historical price of the commodity.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Here in Arizona regular gas is already $2.15 a gallon and a bicycle is not an option.

dg, not an option?!?!?! It's the best option here. I commute on my bike 4-5 days/week from 48th and Elliot to 7th and Van Buren. It takes me about 40 minutes. It would take me that long in the car... hell, it takes me 15 minutes to get on the I10 in the morning. Admittedly, biking on 7th street does have its negatives, but I actually enjoy the commute... I get my exercise and my commute done at the same time.

Originally posted by Ambient Sound

Originally posted by Carseller4
Getting robbed at the pumps? Blame the enviro-whackos who stop creation of other refineries. The US has not had a new refinery in over 25 years. You can produce all the oil you want but if you can't refine it, it doesn't matter.

Good point. The same enviro-whackos are also responsible for the conditions being prime for forest fires in the western US. 40 years of feel-good, but shortsighted policies that have little scientific basis damage us more than people think. These are the same people that of course don't want you to use nuclear power because of the waste disposal issues or use hydro-electric because some fish won't like it. Can't use windmills because some birds will die or some elitist doesn't want to have his nice view of the bay disturbed.

If it were up to some of these folks, we'd all have to ride bicycles and millions of us would have to find new jobs much closer to where we live.

They have thrown away the bargaining chip ( demand) by purposefully creating artifically high demand.....we have the SOR at super capacity.
US firms have reaped historic profits, as have UK oil interests.
Why?
Our policies.
The other great misdirection? THat these companies are "Handcuffed from building more refineries"! That's in the same category as "The greatest decption of the devil is making folks believe he doesn't exist"!!!

Mattison- What i meant is i hate like hell to pedal my little heart out. For me its either the scooter or a horse

Do you think riding a horse in Tempe would cause people to stare?

I like that idea. I'd be making one heck of a statement, wouldnt i?

[edit on 25-3-2005 by dgtempe]

Originally posted by dgtempe
Do you think riding a horse in Tempe would cause people to stare?

If you do it "Lady Godiva" style, send pictures, K?

Originally posted by dgtempe
Mattison- What i meant is i hate like hell to pedal my little heart out. For me its either the scooter

or a horse

Gotcha... I'd personally go with the horse... I think those scooters are dangerous around here... though I am probably less safe on my bike.

Do you think riding a horse in Tempe would cause people to stare?

You know the answer to this already. If you're in motion, and you're not in a car, in PhxMetro, you're the freak. A buddy of mine at work insisted we drive from 7th and Van Buren where our building is to AZ center at 3rd and Van Buren... talk about lazy.

I like that idea. I'd be making one heck of a statement, wouldnt i?

It'd be the Wild West the way it was supposed to be

There's an article with very good charts on the price of oil in other currencies. The rise in the price of oil is not so drastic elsewhere.

www.mees.com...

If you want someone to blame, blame the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department for flooding the economy with credit and keeping interest rates far below the real-world level of inflation (6-9 percent). That encourages the speculation that you rant about and causes the flight to real stuff that have value. Blame the Federal Reserve and the other central banks for continuing to buy the US government debt to prevent interest rates from rising far higher. In the latest quarter, the Federal Reserve purchased 54 billion dollars of US government securities. If the government bonds and notes were priced to yield the appropriate level of interest for the current environment, investors would be more likely to invest in debt than in commodities. Blame the administration for spending far beyond its means in order to stimulate the economy, and for their devaluation of the US dollar.

Originally posted by mattison0922

Originally posted by dgtempe
Mattison- What i meant is i hate like hell to pedal my little heart out. For me its either the scooter

or a horse

Gotcha... I'd personally go with the horse... I think those scooters are dangerous around here... though I am probably less safe on my bike.

Well, it depends (no pun intended). If you're like me, and gag at the thought of using a pooper scooper for your dog, then just imagine cleaning up after a horse.

why cleanit up? where i live the cops regularly patroll on horseback. they just leave the manure where it falls untill a street sweeper comes by. yeah welcome to a huge city where it is easily possible to step in horse s--t.

incidently one of the funniest things i have seen. two teenage girls in a miatta pulled over by a pair of mounted cops. not only did the girls seem to be humiliated and very red indeed, but the horses realy dwarfed the car. i wish i had had a camera.

Originally posted by dgtempe
www.nypost.com...


March 24, 2005 -- HERE'S all you need to know to understand that Americans are getting screwed at the gas pump.
Fact 1: The inventory of crude oil in the U.S. right now is 8 percent larger than it was this same week last year. And that's the biggest amount of crude on hand since the middle of 2002.

Fact 2: That the 8 percent increase doesn't include all the oil purchased by Washington and put into the emergency Strategic Petroleum Reserve, which now has 685 million barrels. That's up from 650 million barrels last year and 599 million in '03.

Fact 3: There is 7.5 percent more gasoline in stock right now in this country than during the same week last year. And you'd have to go back to this same week in 1999 to find more gasoline inventory — when the average price at the pump was only $1.01 a gallon.

Fact 4: Including everything made of oil, there is 4.9 percent more supply this year than when Spring began in 2004. And there's about 10 percent more of all petroleum products in stock today than when the Iraqi war began.

And, finally, Fact 5: American consumers are being conned by speculators — and a media that doesn't ask enough tough questions — into thinking there is some sort of supply problem.

Now here's my No.1 Prediction: If the greedy bottom-feeders who are causing prices to rise end up being responsible for damaging the U.S. economy there will be as much hell to pay on Wall Street as there was when the stock market bubble destroyed people's dreams.

All this having been said, why are we being robbed?

stop whining , americans have been so used to having petrol almost for free and when it goes up a litlle you complain.
In europe we have always had to pay 8 times more then you do.
Now europeans pay about 7 dollars per gallon so i dont think americans have anything to complain about.

mattison, I ride a bike to work (about 12 miles each way) once a week, from Broadway and Signal Butte to McDowell and Higley. It takes me about 45 minutes which is about one third the time it takes me when I drive, but I do it to lose weight and try to keep my cardiovascular system from falling apart. But for most people, riding a bike is not an option, and public transportation is more wasteful than driving your car. (Read John Semmens' articles in the Republic; he was a former economist for the AZDOT.)

And when you look at the price of gasoline is is cheaper now (in constant dollars) here in the United States than it was when I was a college student during the early sixties or during the first embargo in the 1970's.

As a matter of fact, when you take inflation into consideration, gasoline is about as cheap now as it's ever been.

Oh, Off the Street- Now i have to worry about you too? *sigh*

2 days ago someone got killed by riding a bike here in Tempe.

I think a horse is safer

I own a F250 Super Duty work truck and drive about 30 miles a day round trip to work. I won't own a small car because they're death traps. Here in San Diego gas is about $2.30 per/ga. and going up. I don't like it, but as Off_The_Street stated, adjusted for inflation gas is just about in the right ball park compared to the 1970's, I remember the rationing days and the lines, they were no fun. But in the world of today I transfer the rising cost of materials and fuel to my customers.
I'm a contractor in San Diego and when my cost for operating go up I raise my prices to You the consumer. It's the American way and I'm a born again capitalist and not ashamed to transfer the cost of doing business to my customers. It stinks really, but like the oil companies I'm not in business to lose money.

[edit on 27-3-2005 by sharkman]

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
mattison, I ride a bike to work (about 12 miles each way) once a week, from Broadway and Signal Butte to McDowell and Higley.

Awesome!!! Good for you! It's a pretty big commitment, what route do you take that takes you so long. Certainly I know the cross streets, but for some reason can't envision the best route.

It takes me about 45 minutes which is about one third the time it takes me when I drive, but I do it to lose weight and try to keep my cardiovascular system from falling apart.

That's the same reason I do it. I certainly don't do it to save gas. I only jumped in this thread to sort of good-naturedly harass dg

But for most people, riding a bike is not an option,

Well... I agree that most people don't want to deal with the hassle of riding a bike, but that doesn't mean they couldn't. Certainly I didn't start of doing 100 miles a week. I used to drive part way and then ride the rest of the way. I finally worked my way up to the whole thing about 7 months ago.

and public transportation is more wasteful than driving your car. (Read John Semmens' articles in the Republic; he was a former economist for the AZDOT.)

Hmmmm..... I'll have to check that out. Was it recent? Perhaps you can u2u me the link.

And when you look at the price of gasoline is is cheaper now (in constant dollars) here in the United States than it was when I was a college student during the early sixties or during the first embargo in the 1970's.

Again, I am not here because I am protesting the price of gas... just had a comment about biking. And I personally am actually more angry about the price of bottled water than I am about the price of gas

Your right as far as the cost compared to historical costs per gallon, adjusted for inflation,... but the serious problem is that the "change" of the cost in all situations, especially in short time frames, is going to be very inflationary.

In a month or so, the 'change' of the cost of gas is going to directly reflect into most all food items, construction items, anything that is shipped or mailed, travel,... and ultimately provide a nice bout of inflation.

Still within the constructs of the 70's costs adjusted for inflation, but the 'change' will occur whereas people's incomes will not or lag considerably in following suit.




edit-sp

[edit on 27-3-2005 by smirkley]

Originally posted by dgtempe
2 days ago someone got killed by riding a bike here in Tempe.

I think a horse is safer

dg, I didn't hear this! I can't believe this happened, and I didn't hear about it. Where did it happen? It seems like we're dropping like flies... you probably are better off with a horse. I doubt that the scooter would be much safer.

As a matter of fact, I just got done walking my dog. We walk that wash that actually is at 48th and Elliot. That wash actually crosses 44th near Western Star Park. Right in front of the park, I am assuming it was kids, sped down 44th at easily 60+ mph, then jammed on the brakes, squealed the tires, and pulled a hard left on to W. Star Blvd. It's no wonder people here get hit. Remember that guy who got killed on Pecos recently? This city is crazy... the weather's nice this time of year, but that's no longer adequate. We're moving from AZ in like two months, and I can't wait!!

Anyway, nice avatar. Cute kids! Yours?

I was just thinking about these little electric scooters you see a lot of anymore, like in your local Wal-Mart. Those are small engines, with small batteries, and they can carry a normal sized person pretty good.

Is this a sign that an electric vehicle is actually a real potential viable solution to the combustion engine? Of course you would scale up everything with a larger engine, and larger battery. I think the space that the batteries took up was an issue that was mentioned in the past. Was it a real issue, or the oil companies didn't want the technology developed.

The things you can do with batteries anymore is amazing. Look at the cordless drill for example. I mean is there any need really for a hybrid? What would stop the car from being completely electric with todays battery technology? I know you would need charging stations, which could be themselves charged by solar, wind, or hydro, or a combination of all or some depending on the conditions. Well perhaps a hybrid could be the transition phase to all battery?

How far could you get on a single charge with todays battery technology?

Also, think of how simple an electric motor is compared to a combustion engine. The combustion engine has so many parts.

Troy

mattison says:

“what route do you take that takes you so long. Certainly I know the cross streets, but for some reason can't envision the best route.”

North from Cheshire (the NS road between Signal Butte and Crismon) to University, west on University to Recker, north on Recker to McDowell, then west on McDowell to the Boeing facility And I ride slowly LOL!

“Hmmmm..... I'll have to check that [John Semmens] out. Was it recent? Perhaps you can u2u me the link."

www.goldwaterinstitute.org...
www.fee.org...
www.heartland.org...

Smirkley says:

“Your right as far as the cost compared to historical costs per gallon, adjusted for inflation,... but the serious problem is that the "change" of the cost in all situations, especially in short time frames, is going to be very inflationary.”

I’m not sure whether or not a quick rise is any more inflationary than a slower rise; either way, the cost impacts everything that depends on oil, which is just about everything.

The thing that bothers me about this hike, though, is that we are a lot closer to coming to the end of our world supplies of oil than we were in 1974, and we now have to compete with other heavily industrializing (and oil-less) countries, such as India and the PRC, for the world’s diminishing supplies.

Cybertroy says:

“I was just thinking about these little electric scooters you see a lot of anymore, like in your local Wal-Mart. Those are small engines, with small batteries, and they can carry a normal sized person pretty good.”

Sure they do, but where do you think the electricity comes from to charge those batteries? From (typically) oil- and coal-fired electricity generating stations.

“What would stop the car from being completely electric with todays battery technology? I know you would need charging stations, which could be themselves charged by solar, wind, or hydro, or a combination of all or some depending on the conditions. Well perhaps a hybrid could be the transition phase to all battery?”

Today’s batteries are tremendously expensive to manufacture and thus to buy. And, given the inherent inefficiencies of both photovoltaic and wind-turbine power; and by the fact that most rivers are already pretty well exploited for hydroelectricity, the charging stations will have to run off either hydrocarbon- or uranium-burning power plants.

those scooters are cool i admit. too bad they are illigal at least here.

as for electric cars. they sound nice but may actualy end up costing more than gas. not to mention that ever since we had that nice power blackout, we have been constantly warned we need to severly cut back the consumption of electricity. i don't see that by most of us changeing to an electric car will help cut that cunsumption at all. already we are threatened with rolling blackouts, we don't need yet another major use of electricity.

There HAVE been battery powered cars made in the past. They were in fact quite popular among those who had the opportunity to lease the first models.

Too bad they weren't popular with the Powers That Be. At the end of the lease period they broke their own agreement and tried to destroy them all. A lot of the leasers were put off by this, as the agreement stated they could choose to buy the automobiles at the end of the lease period but weren't given that chance. Most of them chose to sue to company in question.

I forget most of the details of this incident though. I'm pretty sure it was Toyota and I'm not sure how it all turned out. I'll report back when I find more.

--Edit--

Found a news story:Ford agrees to sell electric trucks to two pr...

Turns out the company in question is Ford.

[edit on 27-3-2005 by DamashiOdinToshiro]