Do we spend enough on our Military?

AMM,

"In fact, the violent crime rate is actually HIGHER in nations such as England where fire arm ownership is illegal."

Do you have any facts to back this up?

What about for Scotland?

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by rapier28
Yeah, but they not M-16 rifles, which is what the other poster was suggesting.

The difference between an M-16 and an AR-15 is LITERALLY a piece of metal that can be made from a coke can. If you have ANY kind of brain and a small bit of will power you can convert a semi auto rifle to full auto in less then an hour at a cost of 20 bucks or less.

Besides, it IS legal to get a full blown M-16. You just need to aply for the proper permit, which involves an FBI background check. It's really not that big of a deal.

Are you sure violent crime is less then England?

100%. In fact, there is a direct link to LOW crime rates and high gun ownership (with the ability to carry the weapons). For instance, check the crime rates in Florida before and after they legalised carrying pistols. Then look at the major crime capitols of the US - DC and NYC. They both have the most restrictive gun ownership laws.

I thought that in the U.S you could buy guns from states like Georgia, as many as you want, drive up to New York where you can't buy that many. So the gun laws in the U.S are ineffective, am i wrong?

There are ways to get around some gun laws, but for the most part it is very hard. Most of the gun laws in the US are for pistols and such, which require a waiting period (unless you have a gun carry permit, since this requires a background check, there is little reason to do another). NYC is one of the few places in the US where gun ownership is severly restricted, and as I have pointed out, it has one of the highest crime rates for a major city in the US.

AMM,

You say you are 100% sure that crime levels in the US are lower than England yet you go on about Florida with no mention of anywhere outside the US?

Could you post some facts to support your original contention?

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by BillHicksRules
AMM,

"In fact, the violent crime rate is actually HIGHER in nations such as England where fire arm ownership is illegal."

Do you have any facts to back this up?

What about for Scotland?

Cheers

BHR

Crime did not fall in England after handguns were banned in 1997. Quite the contrary, crime rose sharply. In May, the British government reported that gun crime in England and Wales nearly doubled in the last four years. Serious violent crime rates from 1997 to 2002 averaged 29% higher than 1996; robbery was 24% higher; murders 27% higher. Before the law, armed robberies had fallen by 50% from 1993 to 1997, but as soon as handguns were banned, the armed robbery rate shot back up, almost back to their 1993 levels. The violent crime rate in England is now double that in the United States.

Granted this is from June, 2004 but still......DOUBLE

Link

Tere are a lot of places that say this too - just google "violent crime rate of England"

AMM,

Thanks for that link, however, it was from an unsourced article by a pro-gun proponent.

I will look and see if I can come up with any reputable sources.

Cheers

BHR

Bureau of Justice Statistics Crime in the US

It's all there for you. The last author may be pro gun, but he is also factually correct.

[edit on 11-4-2005 by American Mad Man]

AMM,

I have got the hard facts on the US side but getting comparable ones for here is much harder (go, figure).

As an aside I came across another quote from John Lott (the guy who wrote the article in your link). He claims that it is almost impossible to compare countries crime rates due to the different measures taken and used.

Cheers

BHR

Check this out

It does a good job of negating that difference.

AMM,

That is the idea but the figures are 10 years out of date.

Things have changed in both our lands since then.

Cheers

BHR

Yes, things have changed....

Your crime rates have gone up A LOT as your own government admits.

Look, no matter how you try slice it, it is a PROVEN STATISTICAL FACT that banning guns helps INCREASE violent crime. You can look at statistics of American cities to prove this, you can look at your own countries statistics to prove this, you can compare virtually any two countries to prove this.

Hell - the safest country in the world - switzerland - actually PAYS private citizens to own not only automatic weapons, but explosives too. Think about it from a criminals point of view...You are going to mug someone - where would you rather do it? In a US city where literally 1 out of three people carry a gun, or in London where NO ONE can even own a gun? The choice seems clear to me.

AMM,

I am unable to find any statistics to counter those you have posted.

I believe they exist but I am not able to produce them.

I cannot believe the points you make but I am unable to prove otherwise.

Cheers

BHR