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Hiding Our War Dead

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posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by JamesBlonde

Who do you refer to when you say "they"?


"They" refers to the political left.


Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
This is really a non-issue trumped up by the left so that they can use the pictures of the bodies in transit for shock value.


[edit on 05/3/25 by GradyPhilpott]




posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 02:11 AM
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Just another Blonde moment




posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Who is really doing the honoring, ECK? You?
seekerof


Honoring our troops, in part, means ensuring those who have charge of them use them wisely.

I suppose you support this midnight policy, too. You didn't even mention that - the subject of this thread. Nice attempt at diversion, tho.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by COOL HAND
ECK,
How many funerals have you been to recently? Have you seen this "dishonor" firsthand?

You have no idea what you are even talking about when it comes to todays military. It is a far different service than when you "served." There have been numerous changes since I joined. Bottom line, our quality of life is improving and will only continue to get better.

Find something else to whine about. Your constant military bashing is getting old.


Just like Cool Hand, it seems a lot of you are unfamiliar or completely unaware of the policy governing covering of our war dead upon their arrival. It's pretty sad. You might want to get informed. That is if you truly care.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
These are pictures of war dead that are legal and appropriate. It is callous and indefensible to use pictures of stark metal transport coffins in transit for political purposes.



Grady, READ what I wrote. I was NOT talking about pictures of FUNERALS. I was talking specifically about returning caskets from overseas. Why don't you TRY and find some pics of that. You WON'T because you CAN'T.

It's about the POLICY, people.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 08:57 AM
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it doesnt matter how they got home, EastCoastKid, they got home to be bury with rest of their comrades. Full military honors. even if the pentagon decided to raise restrictions on prevent media from taking pictures or recording when the war dead are coming of the plane. the families prefer that they the ones only who can see their war dead instead of having the news media asking questions about their views after losing their love ones or just want to see their expression. if some reporter ask me about my views while im busy mourning the loss of my son as we are suppose to be silent, as the military men carry the body from the cargo plane, i will double tap between the reporter's eyes for disrespect.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 09:51 AM
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For those who are information-challenged:



Hiding the War Dead: A Great Poet's Message to Bush
by Adam Cohen

published by NY Times

Hiding the War Dead: A Great Poet's Message to Bush

NEW YORK -- When World War I broke out, the English saw going off to battle as a fine thing to do. They embraced the Roman poet Horace's dictum, "Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" - It is sweet and proper to die for one's country. But four years later, that romantic notion had been shattered by the grim reality of the mustard-gas-laced killing fields, and by the bitter words of Wilfred Owen, a British officer now recognized as the greatest poet of the Great War. The war he witnessed was full of blood "gargling" up from "froth-corrupted lungs" and "vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues."

Owen's subject was, he declared, "war, and the pity of war." He expressed it through dark word portraits, in which dead and dying young men were stripped of any glory or sentimentality. Owen himself was killed in action at the age of 25, just days before the war's end, 85 years ago this week.

Owen is often portrayed as antiwar, which he was not. What he stood for was seeing war clearly, which makes him especially relevant today. The Bush administration has been loudly attacking the news media for misreporting the Iraq conflict by leaving out good news. Owen would counter - in vivid, gripping images - that it is the White House, with its campaign to hide casualties from view, that is dangerously distorting reality.
www.progressivetrail.org...




Stop Hiding the Toll of War
By Nancy Lessin and Gordon Clark, AlterNet
Posted on March 4, 2004, Printed on March 25, 2005
www.alternet.org...
President Bush's rationale for taking us to war in Iraq has crumbled. The truth about supposed Iraqi weapons of mass destruction is being told. At the same time, another truth remains hidden by the Bush administration: the 550 troops who have returned from Iraq in caskets and the thousands returning with severe physical and psychological damage.

The military planes carrying human remains fly into Dover Air Force Base in Delaware under cover of darkness. Unlike Vietnam, when Americans could see the consequences of war, the media are now banned from Dover Air Force Base by military order, reinforced for the Iraq war by an edict from Mr. Bush.

One does not need to be a historian to know that the image of dead Americans, returning day after day in body bags, helped turn America against the war in Vietnam. This administration has gone to great lengths to prevent a repeat by keeping images of lifeless and broken bodies away from the cameras and the consciousness of the American people. Mr. Bush has not yet attended a single funeral for anyone killed in Iraq -- not a single one. Spain and Italy held state funerals for their countrymen who died in Iraq, but the Bush Administration's policy for our own war dead is to hide them.

The media blackout extends to the legions of wounded who have returned from Iraq as well. Media stories on wounded troops often use Pentagon figures for those officially wounded in combat, numbering around 3,000. These numbers ignore the well over 7,000 troops who have been injured or made ill as a result of the war. According to Disabled American Veterans, an additional 6,891 troops were medically evacuated between March 19, 2003 and Oct. 30, 2003, for everything from vehicle accidents to attempted suicides.
www.alternet.org...





US concern over war dead photos
Pentagon lawyers are examining the release of photographs of the coffins of dead American soldiers repatriated from Iraq.
The images, taken by Department of Defense officials, appeared on the web after the US Air Force released them under the Freedom of Information Act.

Pentagon rules dating back to 1991 ban the media from covering the return of the remains of soldiers killed abroad.

Critics say the rule is designed to cover up the human cost of war.

Defence officials insist it is in the interests of bereaved families.
news.bbc.co.uk...


Anyone who thinks BushCo. is using this policy to protect the grieving families is very naive.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 10:08 AM
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1. This has apparently been in place for 14 years or so. How is it Bush's policy then?

2. You still haven't provided on peice of evidence to suggest our fallen hero's are being dishonored.

3. I'm still not getting the point to all this. Should we go against the wishes of family and friends....just to satisfy...you?



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 10:57 AM
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Grady Philpott:

These are pictures of war dead that are legal and appropriate. It is callous and indefensible to use pictures of stark metal transport coffins in transit for political purposes.


? I don't get it.

It's far more callous and indefensible to SEND these boys and girls to DIE in a foreign country and then when they die they are nothing but a STATISTIC. Where is your humanity?

These people are important enough to be sent there to fight and die for you, but if they die, they should be sent home under cover of darkness so as not to upset anybody? So as not to remind people that "Hey, war kills".

It's not SPECIFICALLY that it is illegal to display pictures of the war dead in the US, it is that your government is telling you that you cannot choose how to honor your dead.

You cannot choose on your own how to honor those who fell for you. And if that's okay with you, and doesn't leave a sour taste in your mouth, then I have absolutely no clue how you justify it in your own mind.

How about pictures of US soldiers with their limbs blown off, their guts leaking out, crying out to their mothers, begging to be put out of their misery as their life leaves their bodies? Or is that a little too vivid for your PG-13 version of the Iraqi Invasion? Because it's what's called The Reality of War. Deal with it.

At this point, if your son or daughter or father dies in Iraq, and you take a picture of their coffin getting loaded off the plane, and you circulate it, you will go to jail or pay a fine. Stalin would be creaming.

YOUR kid decides to go to Iraq, to fight for his country, and once his purpose has been served and he is dead, the government treats his body as a propaganda tool and you don't seem to mind.

Again, I'm totally at a loss for words.

Um, except for all those ones above.

ThatsJustWeird:

I'm still not getting the point to all this. Should we go against the wishes of family and friends....just to satisfy...you?


? Military families didn't make this a law, the government did. If you want to take a picture of a coffin coming off a plane you are NOT ALLOWED to. You will be punished. It's a fricking COFFIN. A box. It's what it represents to the US public that the Bush Administration wants to avoid.

If the US public saw hundreds of coffins being unloaded from a plane, what would they think? Would they maybe question the price of this war?

Well, your government has decided that they don't want you to have to make that decision, so they will make sure you never get to see those coffins in the first place, so they can try to keep your perception of the war positive and not negative.

If it doesn't bother you that your government is trying to sway your opinion by editing out reality, then you should go have a cup of tea with Grady or something.


jako





[edit on 25-3-2005 by Jakomo]



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
1. This has apparently been in place for 14 years or so. How is it Bush's policy then?


They actively support and maintain the policy. DUH!



2. You still haven't provided on peice of evidence to suggest our fallen hero's are being dishonored.


I don't know what "..on piece of evidence" is.. But I would venture a guess, that's merely your opinion. But, keep dat head up dat asz. Denial is alot easier, I suppose.


3. I'm still not getting the point to all this. Should we go against the wishes of family and friends....just to satisfy...you?


Some of the relatives of service personnel killed in Iraq have criticised the Pentagon stance.

"We need to stop hiding the deaths of our young," said Jane Bright of California, whose son was killed in action last year. "We need to be open about their deaths."


You mean, should we go against the wishes of only those you agree with. Typical.



[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by Jakomo
It's far more callous and indefensible to SEND these boys and girls to DIE in a foreign country and then when they die they are nothing but a STATISTIC. Where is your humanity?


You just got my WAY ABOVE vote, Jak.


A true voice of reason - and humanity.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Just like Cool Hand, it seems a lot of you are unfamiliar or completely unaware of the policy governing covering of our war dead upon their arrival. It's pretty sad. You might want to get informed. That is if you truly care.




Can I take that to mean no you have not seen any of this dishonor firsthand?

If anyone here needs to get informed, it is you.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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I think the most disrespectful thing we can do to our fallen, is denied that they fell. If you get wounded in Iraq, but die after the medvac in another country,
you are not counted as an Iraqi war death.



posted on Mar, 26 2005 @ 02:37 AM
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This is off topic, but I heard that they're hiding mass graves of US troops. Again, I HEARD this, I haven't verified it. Just throwing it in the mix...

I do find it strange that we can honor unknown dead or missing vets from other wars, yet we can hush hush casualties from this war. And yes, I do hate Bush and his cronies. But no, I am not caught up in this fake left-right thing. You're screwed with either choice...look at our last election.



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by truthseeka
This is off topic, but I heard that they're hiding mass graves of US troops. Again, I HEARD this, I haven't verified it. Just throwing it in the mix...


I've heard this too with both Iraq and Afghanistan. Is it true? Who knows. I wouldn't put anything past this administration. They use our men and women in uniform when its good; they hide the truth about them when its bad. Thousands of returning maimed/wounded is NOT good PR. If our people had the images of this destruction truthfully in front of them day after day, they might actually demand a withdrawel from Iraq. And that ain't cool for big oil, among other things.



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I've heard this too with both Iraq and Afghanistan. Is it true? Who knows. I wouldn't put anything past this administration. They use our men and women in uniform when its good; they hide the truth about them when its bad. Thousands of returning maimed/wounded is NOT good PR. If our people had the images of this destruction truthfully in front of them day after day, they might actually demand a withdrawel from Iraq. And that ain't cool for big oil, among other things.


Oh please, how are they hiding these "thousands" of hidden war dead? Are they ordering friends and families to forget about them all together? Are they threatening them if they talk?



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I've heard this too with both Iraq and Afghanistan. Is it true? Who knows.


Oh please, how are they hiding these "thousands" of hidden war dead? Are they ordering friends and families to forget about them all together? Are they threatening them if they talk?


Re-read my statement. I don't believe I, or anyone else made a difinitive claim. I've heard things from different sources, another member heard something. It's called SPECULATION. Nothing more, nothing less.



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Re-read my statement. I don't believe I, or anyone else made a difinitive claim. I've heard things from different sources, another member heard something. It's called SPECULATION. Nothing more, nothing less.


More like its called a waste of time.

What are these other sources of yours saying?



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 08:39 AM
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Like I said, there has been speculation on this going back to the conflict in Afghanistan. There's no reason to get into that until there's proof. If you'd like to comment on the subject of this thread, that's fine. Otherwise, we're not gonna get sidetracked on some non-issue.



posted on Mar, 28 2005 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Like I said, there has been speculation on this going back to the conflict in Afghanistan. There's no reason to get into that until there's proof. If you'd like to comment on the subject of this thread, that's fine. Otherwise, we're not gonna get sidetracked on some non-issue.


What are you talking about? I HAVE been commenting on the subject of this thread.

You and others like you, seem to think that there is a possibililty that the US would hide its war dead. That is just not the case. Look at any newspaper out there. They are always updating the numbers, and posting pictures of the soldiers, sailors, and airman who have died over there.

So the US doesn't allow the pictures of the coffins to be placed on the front pages. To me, it hits home when I see the faces of the people who have died, not a flag draped coffin coming off of a plane.

But then, you have never seen that for yourself have you?



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