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Hiding Our War Dead

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posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 02:38 PM
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The policy of this administration to bring back our dead servicemen and women from the killing fields of Iraq and Afghanistan litereally under cover of darkness is an abomination. They do not want the public associating death with the administration and what's happening over there. As a former soldier and someone who's got a brother in uniform, I am appalled by this lack of honoring our fallen.


Our troops deserve SO much BETTER!



While Italy publicly honors its war dead, America hides its dead. Is that respecting our soldiers?
By Gail Vida Hamburg.

The state funeral in Rome last month for Nicola Calipari – the Italian intelligence officer who rescued a kidnapped journalist from Iraqi captors, only to be gunned down by jittery American soldiers at a checkpoint in Baghdad – was a national event that united all Italians, merging their raw sorrow with the singular grief of his widow and children. It was the second time Italy pulled out all the stops for its Iraq War dead. In November of 2003, it staged an elaborate state funeral for nineteen of its citizens, killed in a suicide truck bombing in Nasiriyah.

In both instances, Italy’s Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, his ministers, President Carlo Ciampi, and an honor guard in full-dress uniform stood with grieving families on the tarmac of Rome’s Ciampino military airport to receive their dead. There were national days of mourning and public visitation hours to the reposed, and at night, the Coliseum’s lights were dimmed in a mark of respect.

All Italy watched (on television) as officers from Italy’s civil services carried the flag-draped coffins past honor guards representing every branch of the military. The Carabinieri (paramilitary corps), in their regal uniforms and blue-and-red plume hats, stood guard while lone buglers played the Last Post and other laments. Stricken Italians lined the routes of the funeral cortege to pay their respects, before the bodies were entombed in Rome’s war memorial.

The participation in these last rites symbolized a shared sacrifice between those who prosecute wars, those who must fight them, and those who grieve and honor them—not just the dead and their families, but the entire nation. The pageantry on display was no more excessive than the heroism of the fallen, for surely there can be no greater excess than surrendering one’s life for country.
www.interventionmag.com...




posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 02:39 PM
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W hasn't made any mistakes, though. Just ask him!



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by utrex
W hasn't made any mistakes, though. Just ask him!


I know you're probably being funny. To me, though, this is nothing to laugh about. Our men and women go heroically into the battle and we can't even celebrate and honor them in equal measure to how they so profoundly and honorably served us.



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 03:00 PM
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Though this matter is not laughable, your persistance in spreading your brand of Anti-Bush rhetoric is.


On one hand, you want those who have made the sacrifice for a free Iraq to be honored, and yet, on the other hand [which is quite full], you condone and support desertion, you berate what our soldiers and military personnel are doing over in Iraq [ultimately blaming Bush in the process], and won't recognize the successes that are and have been taking place in Iraq.

Interesting or ironic?
Real patriotism or your own condensed version of it?
You are a self-proclaimed vet, just as I am. Interesting that we would see things totally from different perspectives, eh?

Our soldiers deserve more than honor for their deaths and subsequent contributions and committments, they deserve such when they are alive!
Are you doing that now when you condone and agree with desertion [which ultimately impacts themselves, their families, and more importantly, their comrades in arms] and berate their doings in Iraq or simply using their deaths as an instrument to pursue your anti-Bush agenda?






seekerof

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 03:16 PM
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You support an illegal war of aggression based on LIES and those who sold this rotten bill of goods. For all I know you're their messenger boy and get paid to shill.

I don't. I see illegallity and I call it where i see it. I do not cower from war, if it is truly just and a last resort. This farce is nothing of the sort and you know it, Seekerof.

And by the way, this administration doesn't give a rat's a double s about our men and women in uniform. You KNOW that. They're are just numbers to Dr. Strangelove Rumsfeld and crew.

To not speak this truth is to DISHONOR our troops.

This from another post on why this situation is so messed up:



From ECK:
It's not quite that easy in this instance. First of all, this adminstration doesn't have a clue in how to plan or prosecute a war. Their policies are wreaking havoc upon our men and women in uniform. During the Vietnam War, a soldier was sent to Vietnam for ONE (usually 12 month) tour. They were NOT required to turn right back around and deploy back. For very good reasons. ONE tour was it - unless you VOLUNTEERED for another tour. No one was EVER forced back. And no one got stop-loss orders as they are now. Like back then, NO soldier should be forced into back-to-back tours in theater. EVER. It's a travesty.

The current policies are terribly unhealthy mentally, forget about physically. The men conducting this war have proven they have absolutely NO business in the war business.

You wanna attack something or someone? Attack the architects of this absurdism. They are responsible for the current insanity within our ranks.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 03:21 PM
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Then it only proves to illicit that the term "to honor" is relative/subjective to the user, correct?

For your view of "honor" is not mine.
You see desertion as honorable, I do not.
You see berating what our troops are doing in Iraq as "illegal," thus indicating dishonor. I do not.

Who is really doing the honoring, ECK? You?



seekerof



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 03:35 PM
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if you are complaining about the lack of coverage of the war dead, then i suggest you call cnn or msnbc and ask them to cover the war dead. besides, other families prefer to mourn their loss in private without cameras zooming on their faces.



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 03:48 PM
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The war dead are honed and buried with full military honors. Just because their families do not want their coffins to be made public or shown millions of times, dose not mean that they are being dishonored.



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 04:10 PM
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ECK,
How many funerals have you been to recently? Have you seen this "dishonor" firsthand?

You have no idea what you are even talking about when it comes to todays military. It is a far different service than when you "served." There have been numerous changes since I joined. Bottom line, our quality of life is improving and will only continue to get better.

Find something else to whine about. Your constant military bashing is getting old.



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 04:14 PM
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ECK, What do you suggest? Parade the coffins down main street? The military keeps it low-key out of respect to the soldiers families.

Look I was a US Army soldier and I risked my a** too many times to mention, but if Id had fallen, all I would want is a quiet return to my homeland and have dignified burial with my family and friends. Show some respect young man.

Maximu§




[edit on 043131p://444 by LA_Maximus]



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 07:46 PM
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This isn't even the half of it...

Mercs don't get folded flags for their wives, they don't get any sort of recognition whatsoever other than a possible sound-byte announcing an unnamed contractor died.

Then there's the green card commandos...

The soldiers who get brought back in pine don't elicit the same outpouring of sympathy from strangers, they no longer inspire calls for peace posthumously, the men and women who die in Iraq are for the most part a private tragedy, between the families and the deceased.

The American people were taken out of the equation because of how they acted during Vietnam, it was simply too great a motivator for anti-war sentiment.

There may be other reasons, but I believe that was the thrust behind the change.

The unnamed contractors who die out there were getting paid like 3-10 times more per hour than the regular enlisted, so I guess it's okay that they don't get a fancy going away party or any acknowledgement for their actions from the public sector.

All I'm sayin' is, if you're all about glory, don't sign on for private sector wetworks, or, what are they calling it now..security? hehe Indeed...



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 08:40 PM
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In other words youd like to be swept under the rug like a peice of sht, rather than embarrass the rich zionist elitists aristocrats that sent the poor white trash and undesirable innercity ethnic garbage to fry so they can get even richer by raping Iraq at the expense of the American taxpayer-after all if too many people see the human tradgedy they might turn against the war and then the pigs make less money. those bastards of Haliburton and Bechtel get rich and you get dead..for them. and eventually American is bankrupted and they take the money and run..

You think Wolfowitz and Pearle and Cheny and Feith and Bush respect you, your someone they use and thats why they never went to war, even though they supposedly believe in it so much then why did everyone of them chekin out, because war is for inferior classes to get dead so they get richer and control the world, and they see themselves as born to be masters and everyone else is to serve them

They had a saying in the 1960's - F the pigs, I'm wid that, F the pigs man!



Originally posted by LA_Maximus
ECK, What do you suggest? Parade the coffins down main street? The military keeps it low-key out of respect to the soldiers families.

Look I was a US Army soldier and I risked my a** too many times to mention, but if Id had fallen, all I would want is a quiet return to my homeland and have dignified burial with my family and friends. Show some respect young man.

Maximu§




[edit on 043131p://444 by LA_Maximus]



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 09:51 PM
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All I know by my "experience" is that one of our soldiers station in Albany die in Iraq, the family was taken in the middle of the night and moved to another base, and the only way everybody knew that this happened was after the memo with the deaths for the day.

It was not flowers or prayers or visitations, only low voice whisper about what happen, from the people that spend time with the fallen soldier and nothing was heard from the family.

If that is honor then I got a problem with that, it looks to me like some type of cover up.



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 10:50 PM
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These are pictures of war dead that are legal and appropriate. It is callous and indefensible to use pictures of stark metal transport coffins in transit for political purposes.




































www.cdomusic.com...

Got it?



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
These are pictures of war dead that are legal and appropriate. It is callous and indefensible to use pictures of stark metal transport coffins in transit for political purposes.


What do you mean by legal? What are the restrictions exactly?

It's callous and indefensible to throw the armed forces into a poorly conceived, poorly planned, and poorly executed war for private gain. That was was about money and revenge, and those stark metal transport coffins carry the bodies of individuals who were lied to by their government. They were told they were serving their country. That was an obvious lie because we've gained nothing,

It's callous and indefensible all around Grady, I'll say that. Don't start a war unless absolutely necessary, if you do find yourself engaged in a war zone, literally, figuratively, politically, whatever..you just survive. That's what soldiers are doing in Iraq and about a dozen other nations right now, just thinking about surviving in hostile conditions for a measly paycheck and perhaps the betterment of mankind. The problems occur when A.) They let anyone other than a soldier run the DoD B.) The inbred cult of personality takes over in politics and thinks so highly of itself it disregards the rules C.) Average voter intelligence declines D.) ROME

I remember many, many pictures of plastic bagged young men who flew home to be sorted and packaged by guys lucky enough to stay home. The right kind of decisions prevent the need for stark metal transport coffins.

How many stark metal transport coffins would we need if our soldiers were home where they belong? America needs its soldiers protecting our borders from terrorists, from the contagious domestic insanity, in case nobody looked around the weather and seismology have been all screwed up too..this is not the time to be playing silly buggers in the sand. This is probably going to be a bad fire and flood season, along with severe weather and maybe some other assorted natural disasters, that call to bring the Montana(?) Reserves home wasn't just for effect, there are going to be severe problems this year without combined effort from citizens and their government.

How many revolutions and rebellions world-wide since '05 began - how many occured just south of our border? I would sleep a lot safer with the armed forces patrolling our borders and our coasts. I'm sure they'd feel safer too, because chances are they wouldn't end up in a stark metal transport coffin.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 12:11 AM
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You're pretty new around here, WyrdeOne. I barely survived Vietnam, so no one needs to tell me about war. The issue here is the ruling that it is illegal to take pictures of the returning war dead in transit. It is legal to take pictures at the individual funerals where the families can give or deny permission.





Since 1991, the U.S. Defense Department has prohibited news media from covering the arrival of the remains of U.S. troops. It says the policy is meant to protect the privacy of soldiers' families and the dignity of the dead.

www.iwar.org.uk...



www.washingtonpost.com...

seattletimes.nwsource.com...


[edit on 05/3/25 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 01:25 AM
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Why does he think that is s a disgrace? because he wants his leftist media to make a circus out of it so he can further bash Bush.


The media circus that was the body bags from Nam will never be repeated,

And I doubt that ECK served....if he did it must have been in Alaska on Arctic duty to hate it so...........



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 01:35 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Interesting or ironic?
Real patriotism or your own condensed version of it?
You are a self-proclaimed vet, just as I am. Interesting that we would see things totally from different perspectives, eh?


I recently watched a documentry featuring returned soldiers who had been wounded in Iraq and their views, while united in the prevailing attitude instilled into them by the military, were personally miles apart. If different people having different opinions is so surprising as to be a point of interest.



Our soldiers deserve more than honor for their deaths and subsequent contributions and committments, they deserve such when they are alive!
Are you doing that now when you condone and agree with desertion [which ultimately impacts themselves, their families, and more importantly, their comrades in arms] and berate their doings in Iraq or simply using their deaths as an instrument to pursue your anti-Bush agenda?
[edit on 24-3-2005 by Seekerof]


I certainly agree that the fallen deserve full military honours. When they are available anything less is an insult and a disgrace. Isn't it the Bush administration which is preventing this? Why not use this point to attack them? It seems perfectly valid to me so long as those using the argument have reason to do so. Perhaps we hve a different way of expressing similar sentiments but I felt as though I should make these points.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 01:45 AM
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Originally posted by JamesBlonde
I certainly agree that the fallen deserve full military honours. When they are available anything less is an insult and a disgrace. Isn't it the Bush administration which is preventing this?


No one is preventing a full military funeral for any veteran, unless it is the individual family, who has the right to do so. Were I to be buried at the time of my death, I could have one, as well. This is really a non-issue trumped up by the left so that they can use the pictures of the bodies in transit for shock value.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 02:02 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

No one is preventing a full military funeral for any veteran, unless it is the individual family, who has the right to do so. Were I to be buried at the time of my death, I could have one, as well. This is really a non-issue trumped up by the left so that they can use the pictures of the bodies in transit for shock value.



Maybe so. I suppose there could be many reasons why this aspect of the war is played down. Only one is pointed out in this post.
Who do you refer to when you say "they"? Anti-Bush agendists?(is that a word???*shrug* is now) If they are fighting a war to discredit him then wouldn't you expect them to use any material at their disposal. As in a war of weapons this, unarguably, is par for the course however distasteful.




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