US citizen indicted under the Patirot Act

news.yahoo.com.../ap/20050324/ap_on_re_us/laser_beam_aircraft_1

A man accused of pointing a green laser beam at a small passenger jet, temporarily blinding the pilot and co-pilot, was indicted Wednesday under the federal anti-terror Patriot Act.

Remember the laser attacks all across the country, and then there was guy in NJ who not only did it once, but did it again with law enforcement helicopters when they were looking for the person who blinded the pilots. Then he tried to blame it on his young daughter. He is now facing up to 30 years in prison.

Banach, 38, faces up to 20 years in prison if convicted of interference with pilots of an aircraft "with reckless disregard for the safety of human life," a provision of the USA Patriot Act passed following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

I feel that this idiot should be convicted, and hopefully they will give him house arrest and about 10 y/o probation. He'd be someones second girl in prison.

Well I have to agree that if he did something that could had put in danger the life of the people inside the airplanes with his silly game he should be convicted for it.

I am not friend of the patriot act so I feel that patriot act was not needed for this.

He was not a child, he should have know better.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by marg6043]

Obviously the guy needs to be convicted, but there I agree this is a blatant misuse of the intention of the Patriot Act.

Lock this fool up and throw away the key.


Maximu§

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Lock this fool up and throw away the key.


Maximu§

I suppose you'd love to send him to Gitmo hmm. Misuse of the Patriot Act is a given thats why it's a bad idea. Allthough to be fair there havn't been that many reported abuses. I wonder how much is going un-reported.

I have a buddy who was just picked up during a protest under a Canadian Security Certificate, most likely because he wasn't white and I haven't seen him in months(Last time I saw him was in November). The thing of it is he was a Pacifist.....he would not hurt a fly

We have our own Patriot Act. It's under some obscure name and has not recieved national headlines as the PA has.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by sardion2000]

How is this a misuse of the Patriot Act? Patriot modifies a lot of other laws and incorporates a lot of other laws and updates a lot of laws. He was interfereing with National Civil Aviation. That happens to be something covered under the Patriot Act. He's not charged as a terrorist. He's charged with breaking the law. Its not a misuse of Patriot.

as posted by Nygdan
How is this a misuse of the Patriot Act?

When the word Patriot Act gets mentioned, it illicits the typical lack of understanding knee-jerking responses, Nygdan.

Too many visits to Rense, Truthout, PrisonPlanet, Indymedia, guerrillanews, infowars, etc.




seekerof

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by esdad71
news.yahoo.com.../ap/20050324/ap_on_re_us/laser_beam_aircraft_1

A man accused of pointing a green laser beam at a small passenger jet, temporarily blinding the pilot and co-pilot, was indicted Wednesday under the federal anti-terror Patriot Act.

Remember the laser attacks all across the country, and then there was guy in NJ who not only did it once, but did it again with law enforcement helicopters when they were looking for the person who blinded the pilots. Then he tried to blame it on his young daughter. He is now facing up to 30 years in prison.

Banach, 38, faces up to 20 years in prison if convicted of interference with pilots of an aircraft "with reckless disregard for the safety of human life," a provision of the USA Patriot Act passed following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

I feel that this idiot should be convicted, and hopefully they will give him house arrest and about 10 y/o probation. He'd be someones second girl in prison.

Excuse me, we are talking about a commonly available laser pen one that is available in many commerical locations world wide. This is a matter of discretionary enforcement gone wild. While you are demonizing this man it points to some bias favoring any pronouncement of this sometimes over precise government.

For one, someone has to prove some intent, although most due process factors are not operating here, so the intent is a matter of introjection and projection. Such it is with interogation techniques and pysops. The most prudent course is this for those who must confront government people, "I have nothing to say to you." Rehearse that over and over again, will you?

To think, Martha Stewart, she was convicted of so called lying to the government. You could say "the sun rises in the morning," and technically you are so called "lying," since of course the earth rotates and revolves around the sun. The sun is relatively stationary. Have a happy time in jail for saying such a thing as "the sun rises."

What this appears to be is an instance of case law, where the Patriot Act is establishing itself into the maze of our court system. This kind of laser may be visible to pilots, but is is not a military kind of laser, it is not high powered enough. You have seen laser demonstations in rock concerts and planetariums, they are not harmful. The only thing is a pilot who is afraid about such a laser, simply not knowing what it is.

Face it the crime rate has gone down, and simple sociology would tell you these organizations are desperate to put notches into the record. It is obvious that our system is strucurally deficient and operating too often with reverse incentives as to good sense. People get arrested for things these days that were absolutely nothing in common law, nor case law, in previous years.

I am sad to view this kind of easily refuted nonsense being established as the pinacle of discretionary authority. These USG people should logically be ashamed of themselves for prosecuting something like this, but power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Originally posted by Nygdan
How is this a misuse of the Patriot Act? Patriot modifies a lot of other laws and incorporates a lot of other laws and updates a lot of laws. He was interfereing with National Civil Aviation. That happens to be something covered under the Patriot Act. He's not charged as a terrorist. He's charged with breaking the law. Its not a misuse of Patriot.

As long as he is given due process thats fine, buts that is not what I have heard on such stations as CBC and BBC. Or are you equating those two stations as a Rense type news sources seekerof? Show me the link plz that states unequivacally that he is not being charged as a Terrorist and I will buy the story. Please no links for Foxnews, or Newsmax either those two "news" outlets are just a full of it as Rense and Prisonplanet.

The reason I kneejerk is because it hits close to home as I have a friend who has been illigally detained due to a very similiar law passed in Canada. Please do not label me as a left wing wacko(by suggesting I get my information from less the reputable sources) and I will not label you as a Neo-Con sellout.(or are you calling yourself a "Moderate Conservative" now...)

[edit on 24-3-2005 by sardion2000]

The Patriot act is being used in very important ways to protect the security of the US.... citizens included.

High cost of dubious drugs war
(sorry, just found out I couldnt hotlink this, but this particular story is very easy to google )

Leno asked how Chong had been busted, and Tommy replied his company sold bongs to a fake "head shop" in Pennsylvania that was a DEA front. "But isn't that entrapment?" Jay asked. "Hey, this is America," replied Chong. It was also revealed during the interview that Chong pleaded uilty so that charges would not be filed against his wife and son. Chong was the only one of 55 people rounded up during "Operation Pipe Dreams" who served time. Jay asked why Chong's bongs were deemed illegal when such items are available for purchase on Santa Monica Blvd. in LA. "I guess because they had my picture on it," joked Chong, who is famous for portraying a pothead in his many successful Cheech and Chong movies. Chong said when police came to his door, they asked if he had pot. "Of course I do. I'm Tommy Chong," was the reply. However, Chong had no arrest record whatsoever until that day.

and ...

High cost of dubious marshmellow war

Vacationing from Riverton, Wyo., Hope Clarke said she had been rousted by federal agents at her cruise ship cabin door at 6:30 a.m. She was put in handcuffs on a bench warrant for failing to put away her marshmallows and hot chocolate while staying at Yellowstone National Park last year.

The catch? Clarke said she had to pay the $50 fine the same day for the federal offense of improper food storage before she was allowed to leave the park. Nonetheless, a warrant claiming she had not paid went into the federal law enforcement database.

Back in the United States from Cozumel, Mexico, on Carnival's Fascination cruise ship, Clarke was awakened, cuffed, turned over to federal marshals and brought to court in leg shackles and short shorts.

I feel safer already.




[edit on 24-3-2005 by smirkley]

Originally posted by sardion2000
I suppose you'd love to send him to Gitmo hmm.

Sending him to Guantanimo bay is abit much, but I do think we outta lock him up for 6 months. He did this crap more than once. I hope your friend is Ok.


Maximu§

You would think I would have recieved at least 1 reply addressing my concerns.

Entrapment is all well and good but it's been around long before the Patriot Act, just watch Cops. They practice that "technique" regularly for everyone to see and no one seems to mind anymore.

Sending him to Guantanimo bay is abit much, but I do think we outta lock him up for 6 months. He did this crap more than once. I hope your friend is Ok.

Thank you I hope so too.

I do agree this guy should be punished as he acted like a idiot. Just not as a terrorist. I do hope he gets due process as I have seen that go by the wayside in BOTH of our countries and it worries my to no end.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by sardion2000]

Don't send him to Guantanamo or even prison. Just lock him in a hospital room and starve him death. The liberals will certainly go along with that.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Don't send him to Guantanamo or even prison. Just lock him in a hospital room and starve him death. The liberals will certainly go along with that.

That comment was unnessesary and way off topic. And disrespectfull to boot.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by marg6043
Well I have to agree that if he did something that could had put in danger the life of the people inside the airplanes with his silly game he should be convicted for it.

I am not friend of the patriot act so I feel that patriot act was not needed for this.

He was not a child, he should have know better.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by marg6043]

I would have to agree with Marge on this....I do not agree with the PA....and it was not needed for this, the gov't is using this now for
stuff that does not need it..as seen in the Zombie story thead about the kid who was charged with "plans of terrorism" because he wrote a story about zombies taking over a HS
Zombie thread

Anyways why do they need the PA.....they will, it is the same thing they have been doing but now they put a name to it....

.
delete post pls sorry.

misposted
[edit on 24-3-2005 by Ritual]

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Ritual]

Well two things. First if the laser pen he was using was one specifically for stargazing, I can say they are surprisingly powerful and not like those commonly available at your local corner store. My friend has one of these and it is so powerful when he points it at a star it really looks like you can follow the beam all the way to the specific star. It cost him $150 and so I can see how if it hit a pilot in the face, they would be distracted.

The second thing, in the article it mentions upto 20years for endangering lives. WTH is up with that? People who are busted on DUI/DWI do not even get that amount of time. He was stupid for doing it, but 20years and a guarantee of him being raped or forced to do things to survive that would add to his time in jail for shining a laser in a pilot's face. That is just plain overboard. He should be punished, but maybe in a different way.

This guy broke the law in a manner that is reprehensible, but certainly there are laws on the books protecting aviation that should cover this crime. I agree with those that are concerned about the patriot act becoming a part of our normal, judicial system. A big part of president Bush's campaign platform was to limit the size of government and let the states run themselves. It's been the exact oposite, and far too few of see the incursion.

I'm still trying to figure out how it hit a pilot in the cockpit, given the location of their windows, compared to the ground when flying over... It seems all but impossible for all but a very powerful beam and then to be at an angle where one could see the side of the plane but far enough to angle it right.... Just seems weird...

Originally posted by Seekerof

as posted by Nygdan
How is this a misuse of the Patriot Act?

When the word Patriot Act gets mentioned, it illicits the typical lack of understanding knee-jerking responses, Nygdan.

Too many visits to Rense, Truthout, PrisonPlanet, Indymedia, guerrillanews, infowars, etc.

seekerof
[edit on 24-3-2005 by Seekerof]

Oh ok, so, should I say your response is a typical knee-jerk reaction by those inclined to believe in fascism and oppression?

How about you read the Patriot Act next time, specifically under the clause he was charged?

www.epic.org...

"TITLE VIII--STRENGTHENING THE CRIMINAL LAWS AGAINST TERRORISM

SEC. 801. TERRORIST ATTACKS AND OTHER ACTS OF VIOLENCE AGAINST MASS TRANSPORTATION SYSTEMS.

`Sec. 1993. Terrorist attacks and other acts of violence against mass transportation systems

`(a) GENERAL PROHIBITIONS- Whoever willfully--

...

`(2) places or causes to be placed any biological agent or toxin for use as a weapon, destructive substance, or destructive device in, upon, or near a mass transportation vehicle or ferry, without previously obtaining the permission of the mass transportation provider, and with intent to endanger the safety of any passenger or employee of the mass transportation provider, or with a reckless disregard for the safety of human life; "

This man is being charged with "a reckless disregard for the safety of human life" under this provision created by the Patriot Act. It's absurd to think he would not be charged had it not been for the Patriot Act. But, the FBI made it a specific point to charge him under provisions created by the Patriot Act.

And, let us not forget the full (short) title of this act: "This Act may be cited as the `Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA PATRIOT ACT) Act of 2001'"

I guess moderators can learn from ATS' motto too.