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Iran is indeed not Iraq - And arrogance has always led to the fall of the greatest empires...

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posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by Ishes

Originally posted by nathraq
Typical stereotype, until the stuff hits the fan. How many overweight soldiers do you see pushing the frontline?


None... yet, it was hypothetical. More US aggression in the Middle East will result in mass casualties for both sides. The Bush administration will stop at nothing to achieve its goal of, well, the 4th Reich! If this means slaughtering all their troops on the way and having fat people do the fighting, so be it.


America was key in the defeat of Germany, so it is not 'beside the point'. Germany did have the best equipped, most disciplined army of that time. Remember Dunkirk?


Exactly my point. It is besides the point the was America that was the key to defeat of Germany, BUT Germany was better equipped etc and Germany lost!

America is better equipped, but they will fall, at some point.

Thank you Ishes! Some Americans and their "logic".... and they think they can beat Iran in chess with that kind of "logic"!

Oh, and if America attacks Iran. Iran destroys Isreal. The ‘American People’ have won, but that is a big blow to the real puppet masters.


[edit on 24-3-2005 by Ishes]




posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Please stop your lunatic rantings siroos.
It's post like yours that bring down the quality of ATS....

...disgusting...


Siroos is obviously an Iranian government shill using ATS to spread Iran's propaganda.

My advice to all:




posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by Yorga



Now onto a few other matters:




You think you live in a free society? Maaannnnnnnn, you have a lot to learn. I think you need to wake up and smell the coffee (Don’t drink it though, its bad for you!). America is far from free, you just haven’t realised it yet. Your elections are rigged, your country is run by corporations and your brainwashed every day. Do some research my friend, then come back and say again that you live in a free country, I dare you.
to spoil your ‘field trip’ my yank friends!



One would think that our Limey friends could come up with a better argument than the same old tired conspiracy BS. Sounds interesting though, rigged elections and all. It would make a great movie. It is so
easy to say we are all brainwashed isn't it? Beats facing the truth that maybe all us fat couch potatoes actually got off our arse's and voted.
Oh, thats right those elections were stolen, damn and to think I stood in line for three hours, for nothing! That burns my butt!
Excuse me a second...................... had to remove my brain from the washer! I would think that with our puppet leading your country that you wouldn't have time to worry about what our corrupt government is doing.
But you Limey's have always had a fascination with this warmongering society across the pound ever since you gave us our freedom, oh sorry, I meant non-freedom! Thought I was defending freedom in Vietnam, had a few Limey buds there that felt the same way, damn and too think all this time I been fooling myself. Gee wait till I go tell all the guys at the wall. Hey all you dumb bastards died for nothing, we weren't free to begin with. Had a few Limey Buds fighting with me in several campaigns including Desert Storm. Damn good blokes I thought, helluva good fighters. Thought we were fighting for Kuwaiti freedom. Damn it is really upsetting to now be told that I am not free and never have been free. It's probably all an illusion. Does this mean that I have to give back my Silver Star and Purple Heart? After all I wasn't even free so I guess I wasn't fighting for freedom, then it must all have been just a bad dream. Damn those corporations, whoops better not say that too loud. Might loose my cushy job. Then I wouldn't be able to pay for my 2100 sq ft home or my $36,000 car, bloody hell.




It's not strange at all to you that of all the states where things went wrong in the elections of 2000 it had to be Florida where Georgie the evil clown's brother was and is governor......? And how do you dismiss all the reports of organized intimidation of minority groups so that they should not participate in the elections both in 2000 and 2004? Your country may be a democracy, but it is a very limited democracy, one where you can only choose between red apples or green apples. It's also a very corrupt democracy where the financial interests of the mega corporations rule. It's also the only democracy in the world where a presidential candidate can get 700,000 more votes and still loose.

I'm not so sure that the last elections were rigged though as it is a sad fact that there are many naive and gullable Americans, and that many of these naive and gullable Americans are the blind followers of a bunch of evangelic "Christian" gangsters who are robbing them dry of every single penny. And since the zionists who rule the U.S. are smart enough to have realized that such a large segment of the American population are naive and gullable followers of evangelic "Christian" gangsters, they chose Georgie the evil clown as the presidential candidate so that he would get the vote, and so this way it would spare them the trouble of having to rigg any elections... The present cozy relationship between the zionist rulers of the U.S. and the evangelic "Christian" gangsters is based on this concept - it's a matter of having a common enemy - Islam and Muslims.

No need to get hysterical, but the truth is that your scumbags of leaders who send you guys out to fight their wars are lying to you when they tell you that you're "fighting for freedom" - You're fighting for Israel and for the zionist rulers of the U.S. so that they shall gain more and more control over the world and become wealthier and more powerful - That's what you've been fighting for!



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 11:46 AM
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Part of the objective in Iraq was to save lives, the 120.000 figure you have is false and inflated. Also most of the killing of the Iraqi civilians are done by your government sending in Insurgents with car bombs and blowing them up in form of Mosques. And If the Insurgents will be cowards and fight from schools and mosques then we have no choice but to attack back.
Also Iran is being over flown by U.S. drones and Fighters all the time, do you remember a while back when all of those “U.F.O.” sighting were occurring in Iran. You really think they were little green men? I guarantee you they were U.S. UAV’s and you government couldn't even shoot those down



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Arrogance shall lead to a downfall. The downfall of Iran whose leaders think they can thumb their noses at the international community and violate their treaty obligations to the major powers with immunity. Iran will fall in a fiery cataclysm as the West becomes united against them.


Excuse me! It is not Iran which has violated any international treaty, it is the U.S. ! Iran is following the international protocol for nuclear containment to the letter.

1) The U.S. is the country which several times has refused the UN access to its nuclear facilities and an investigation of its nuclear programme.

2) The U.S. has vetoed several UN demands to investigate Israeli nuclear facilities.

3) The U.S. has outright and openly violated and defied the international protocol on nuclear containment of which it is a signatory, and which calls on all the signatory nations to systematically dismantle their nuclear arsenals. The U.S. is instead developing and expanding its nuclear arsenal.

Thus the criminal is the U.S. and it should then be assumed that the U.S. should be attacked if anyone should be attacked according to the trigger-happy mentality of some Americans!

Iran has every right to pursue a nuclear programme for peaceful purposes, and that is exactly what it is doing. If Iran is secretly developing nuclear weapons then they haven't done any worse than the Americans who have violated the international protocol big time.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by Croat56
Hmm Im sure the soviet union thought the same thing when they invaded afghanistan. Look what happened to them.


Yes, and look what happened when the US came in with under 30,000 troops


This is simply no contest, it is pro's vs middle schoolers, the elite of the world vs an also ran, a 800 pound guarilla vs a baby chimp.

If the US was a human, Iran would be a cock roach we would step on.


You seem to be forgetting that the U.S. was not alone in fighting the war in Afghanistan. And everyone was fighting one fraction - the Talibans who were most hated by the vast majority of Afghans. The Soviets on the other hand had to fight all of Afghanistan - all its tribes, war lords and different groups. The Norhtern Alliance of Aghan rebels were in the front lines fighting the war against the Taliban. All the Americans did was just bomb the hell out of the terrain with bunker buster bombs.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by Siroos

You should add "mentally disturbed" to trigger happy american cowboy!




Oh - I am mentally disturbed because I state the truth? The US took afghanistan with less then 30,000 troops. You can't argue that. It is a FACT.


No, you're mentally disturbed because you're a trigger happy cowboy who takes great delight at bloodshed. And I don't think youd know a fact even if it would introduce itself to you as one.



You also can't argue that Iran has a chance against the US. It doesn't. That is a fact. The US has a better and bigger army navy and airforce. You can't argue that. It's a FACT.


As I said, you don't know what the meaning of fact is. The U.S. may have a better equipped army than Iran has, but it certainly does not have a bigger army. Iran's total active armed forces number 7million hardcore basiij forces, fiercely loyal to the Islamic Republic and the revolution, and an 800,000 man strong regular armed forces. It has nuclear submarines, and the ability to mass produce its own tanks, fighter jets and missiles among other goodies. But more than anything, Iranians are fiercely patriotic and will go totally insane when their country is attacked. Besides, do you think that the U.S. would be so stupid to deliver its entire military force to Iran? DO you know what that would cost the U.S.? Iran also has the ability to close the strait of Hormuz and to set the American fleet in the Persian Gulf ablaze. I don't think the U.S. would be so stupid to get involved in such a mess, but then again who knows? Georgie the evil clown rules your country, so anything is possible.

You're no freaking elite!

Ohhh please, tell me who the elite military in the world is?

Iran???


Everyone agrees, the US military is the worlds ELITE military.



Sure you might be the elite of spitting out trash all around the world with your sick culture of violence and vulgarity.


Our culture of violence? Let's take a look at the middle east, Africa, and Asia. That's what I thought.



A country where slaves would exist only a little more than a hundred years ago


As opposed to all the women that are slaves in the middle east THIS DAY. We had our problems, as you pointed out OVER A HUNDRED YEARS AGO.



and where apartheid existed only some 45-50 years ago


you ignorant child, the US had nothing to do with it - it was Europe! And apartheid was in Africa, NOT the US




is the elite of hypocrisy when it beats its chest trumpeting out that its going to deliver democracy to the world.


We have a democracy and have delivered one to Iraq and Afghanistan. Lebenon is going that way too it seems, since our troop presence in the ME gives them a bit of a chance.



You don't even have a real democracy in your own country (which once belonged to the native Indian tribes) and you're going to deliver it to others?


Your right, we have a Democratic Republic, to account for states rights as well. It has proven to be the most succesfull government in the history of the planet.

You're the elite of freaks, of serial murderers, of obesity, of junk food, of corruption and greed, of violence and crime, of trigger happy cowboys.

Hate hate hate. So much hate. Jelousy too. Pathetic. BTW - the title is a joke for idiots like you who hate the US, hate our culture, hate us in general.


America is about to collapse and it doesn't matter how freaking trigger happy you are cowboy - you better replace your cowboy hat with a helmet because when the U.S. will crumble it will it will hit you hard.


Keep wishing buddy.

The US makes up about 20% of the world economy, has the worlds best military, and has the best research and science, higher educational system - hell, pretty much everything.



Your society is infested with incompetence, and its all because of greed and selfishness and decadence. Incompetense on every level from the bottom to the top, and it will only get worse! In some 20 years from now the majority of Americans will be non-whites - How are you going to deal with that?


Oh yeah - we are so incompetent that we dominate EVERYTHING. Tell me exactly how a coutry so incompetent has the best military, the best economy, the biggest companies, the most money, the best, the most oof everything really.

Yes, every other country is so competent that they are ahead of us. Get a clue - the US is THE most competent country in the world.

Your projections are off about the demographics of our country, but honestly I don't care if my nieghbors are black white asian or hispanic. I have plenty of friends of each race - thats the great thing about this country, we take the BEST from everything and put it all in one.

Now run along American hating yet secretly jelous troll. Go strap a bomb to your chest and do your part in bringing down the big bad USA.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Part of the objective in Iraq was to save lives, the 120.000 figure you have is false and inflated. Also most of the killing of the Iraqi civilians are done by your government sending in Insurgents with car bombs and blowing them up in form of Mosques. And If the Insurgents will be cowards and fight from schools and mosques then we have no choice but to attack back.
Also Iran is being over flown by U.S. drones and Fighters all the time, do you remember a while back when all of those “U.F.O.” sighting were occurring in Iran. You really think they were little green men? I guarantee you they were U.S. UAV’s and you government couldn't even shoot those down


No no no no no. Most of the killing of Iraqi civilians were done by YOUR government and YOUR army. over More than 100,000 civilians have died as direct or indirect consequences of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, Iran has a very small percentage responsibility for the deaths. Fact.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 12:24 PM
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I was about to write exactly the same thing, phixion. Theres quite a few psychics on ATS these days



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by Siroos[Iran's air defenses will take care of the U.S. airforce. The Islamic Republic of Iran not only learnt a lot from the Iran-Iraq war, but it has learnt a whole lot more from the American agression against Iraq, Serbia and Afghanistan. Iran has known for 26 years that it could become involved in a war with the great satan or the little satan, so be sure that they have prepared themselves. And the U.S. or Israel or both will pay a very heavy price should they dare attack Iran - A price they cannot afford!


Supply proof to back up your claim that Iran's air defenses will "take care" of a coordinated US air campaign. I have done a little research on the net and have not found anything the USAF and USN haven't been through before. Wishing something will happen and having the numbers, experience and quality to make it happen are another.


Are you kidding me? How should I supply "proof" to you about the capability of the Iranian air defenses? There is no way of proving that other than to see it in action!

Heres one account which describes Iranian capabilities:

"The Iranian Air Force managed to remain operational during a period of crippling American economic and military sanctions and constant bombardment by Iraq. Where, exactly, did Tehran get spare parts for its American-built F-4, F-5, C-130 and P-3 aircraft to keep them flying for eight years under combat conditions? How was it able to keep its personnel motivated under very difficult conditions? Why was Iraq unable to prevail – despite having access to Soviet resources and American intelligence? What was the nature and extent of French support to Saddam Hussein’s air force? The answers will surprise you. On the operational side, readers will learn of a daring Iranian raid on the h -2 and h -3 bases in western Iraq. On this occasion, two 707 tanker aircraft, staging out of Turkey, refuelled an Iranian strike force, which hit the Iraqi air bases and recovered to Iran. The Iranian Air Force’s use of RPG-7s mounted on Mohajer UAVs – possibly the first use of a modern unmanned combat aerial vehicle – may be unfamiliar to most readers.

Of note, there is a beginning section that examines the Shah’s covert aerial intelligence-gathering efforts against the Soviet Union during the Cold War. This book is highly recommended to anyone interested in modern air warfare."



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by Asia Minor
The guys an idiot. Calling America names like they have running water in Iran. They still are in the Dark Ages.


Oh we have much more than just plain running water. Take a look at what we have...

www.worldisround.com...

and when you have done that you can go here:

www.worldisround.com...

I don't know what your problem is, but it seems to me that it's got something to do with some sort of a complex.... and perhaps jealousy.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by FALLOUT SHELTER

Originally posted by Siroos
I guess this is what has happened to you and quite a few other Americans who voted for the clown Bush and his zionist/evangelic alliance of criminals and crooks.


I have not finished reading all the threads in this post, but I have one thing to ask you and anyone else who has said something similar. Do you honestly believe Kerry would have been any different?

The problem is that in this election (like most) there was no one to choose from that was a stand up person based upon their past and possibly even their present. America is hard pressed to find men/women today that are honestly more concerned about the lives of every day Americans than they are about themselves.

In War everyone looses but the rich!


That's a tough question to answer, but I believe there are some individuals in American politics who sincerely would like to improve the lives of Americans and the situation in the world, although they are very few, I don't think that Kerry was necessarily one of them, but no matter what nobody could be worse than what you have now.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 12:43 PM
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I cant believe I am still hearing this .
1) We are probably NOT GOING TO ATTACK IRAN.
2) Why are people like you still posting incredibly false predictions....for example

1) 1988 ....." oh no! dont attack Manuel, he will kill all of our troops, anyway, the US government wants his $1,000,000 dollars of drug money".
2) 1990 " oh no!, dont attack iraq, they will kill all of our troops, IT WILL BE A DISASTER!"............. so to prepare, we will order 50,000 body bags.
3) 1994-1998 ....." dont attack Yuegoslavia, they never did anything to us, besides we will definatley loose a war with them."
4) 2001 " Mr. President , i beg of you, do not attack afghanistan. - Micheal Moore
5) 2002-3 ............... no comment

tally

Doomsdayers - 0
Rational Thinkers ( for whom there are very little of on this BB) - 5



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by Ishes
I was about to write exactly the same thing, phixion. Theres quite a few psychics on ATS these days


Indeed - I knew your were going to post that...freaky stuff.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 12:47 PM
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taking on Iran would be crazy
look at the trouble the US is having now with a country it has waged two wars and a 12 year seige upon, and STILL they cannot fully defeat them.
it's one thing to fight a country that cannot fight back
it's something else to fight a country that not only can and will fight back, but one that has an ancient history of being on the winning side of such battles
EG



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 12:57 PM
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Siroos, you a brit or an astralian?, anyway point #1 USA is far from 'imperialist' this sounds like that ward churchill crap, "hey, little eichmans"
the 'oil' from Iraq america actually pays for. how is that 'imperialist'. Anyway you dont know what your talking about have you ever step foot in the U.S. little eichman? we are definately better off than brits who have banned guns and whored themselves to criminals. now who's government is ran by criminals? The fact is you don't like bush,and you dont like americans because they put him back into office. As i recall was it not the 'imperialist' brits that had colonies all over the world.hypocrites.
Why are you so worried about what america is doing your safe and sound and get to lay around and have faggy little tea parties. I hope the IRA finally takes care of you brit bastards.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Get a warning? Nope don't think he/she will, if the others on here who are calling Americans all these names don't get one yet they he/she wont either.
Plus unless you consider woman slaves, dictatorship and religious laws modern, then Iran is in the dark ages. Remember the middle ages when people were burnt as witches? We now think this is ridicules and stupid, but in Iran religious punishments happen all the time.


Who has called Americans all these names? Can you refer me to any such name-calling? Iranian woman slaves??? Are you totally out of your mind? You have so brainwashed by your media that it's so tragic! 63% of all higher education students in Iran are female. Iranian women are very active in business, science, sports, politics and industry. Nobody is being burned to death in Iran. Stoning to death is a primitive punishment from the Old Testament, and the Iranian government has ceased performing such penalties since three years ago. But in the U.S. juveniles and mentally retarded and disturbed people have recieved the death penalty! Sure the Supreme court finally intervened after a lot of protests, but the same happened in Iran after many Iranians protested against stoning to death. And it wasn't only in the middle ages that they burnt witches - They burnt witches in the U.S.A. in the 1700's.

Read about Iran's female Racer Drivers who outperform male racer drivers:

news.bbc.co.uk...




posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by csulli456
First of all I`d like to say I really dont think that there will be a war between Iran and the USA. It just doesnt make sense, could the Iranian government be so arrogant? They are just playing the game and ultimately will give in to the rest of the world, not just the USA, and will not make any nuclear weapons. They can have as much nuclear power as they want so long as they dont make bombs. And there are offers by the other nations involved with negotiations. Ultimately I think Iran will take one of these offers and go on with a nuclear plant and forget about thee weapons.


Could the Iranian government be so arrogant??? What have they done that is so arrogant if I may ask? As a signatory of the international protocol of nuclear containment, Iran reserves every right to enrich uranium! So Iran has not done anything illegal. It is the U.S. government which is so arrogant, because it is the U.S. which has violated the same agreements which it too is a signatory of and which calls upon the nuclear powers to systematically and gradually dismantle their nuclear arsenals, but not only has the U.S. not dismantled any nukes, but it's in the process of developing more! How can you get everything so backwards? And if you ask me, Iran should get nuclear weapons, because only then will it prevent the U.S. to quit trying to bully it and to constantly interfere in our internal affairs. If Israel, the U.S., France, U.K. and Pakistan can have it, then so can Iran! Enough is enough of this savage colonialist mentality of believing that you can have everything and nobody else can have anything unless you grant it to them!

Iran has nothing to fear so long as they dont make nukes. We dont want to or need to invade Iran for any reason. Sirros, are you serious? Do you really think we want your oil or something? We dont. What we want is a better peace of mind that terrorists wont get their hands on nukes. We dont think Iran is a threat to us at all. Its just that the terrorists are in the region and they do have supporters who may be in Iran and the potential is quite real.

On another note its so immature to try and pick a fight. If we thought of Iran as a threat and all of your information of superiority was correct, dont you think we`d be smart enough just to drop loads of nukes on you so that your proposed outcome would be denied?

C`mon man, you are an American hater and have a right to your views and opinions, but you are seriously wasting your time. There will be no Iran USA war period. It ain`t gonna happen. The core ideals and fundamentals of the American people are shared by most of the world. We dont set out to invade countries and take them over. Thats not what we are about. We went to Iraq and Afghanistan because of 9/11. Contrary to what you may think we are taking a pre-emptive stance to deny the terrorists of another 9/11.

Iran is not a threat to us, we have no need to invade. If they have nukes then that is a real danger to our society and many others. There is no need for Iran to possess nukes, what because they are afraid we will invade them or something. It ain`t gonna happen, period. The Iranian as well as all the other governments involved will come to an agreement eventually. Iran is and will be an even better ally to the US in the future.

Stop trying to incite riots, the people who are getting so worked up about your claims have the same patriotism that I carry in my veins. I love my country, and while it sure in hell ain`t perfect, its my home and I love it. You really need a better picture of it all, you need to see all angles, we are not what you proclaim. But in your own words, I dont blame you for it. You are a product of your enviroment and if you believe everything you hear then you are no more educated then I. Look at the whole picture, thats all.

Dont be ignorant and just rant and rave. Thats what is wrong with this world. We are too divided, we all need to come together on a common ground. Its the only way for the human race to advance in whole. We will never advance in part. Its not about American or Iranian, get that out of your head. If the world continues on this path it will lead to its ultimate destruction and then, guess what, we all lose.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Part of the objective in Iraq was to save lives, the 120.000 figure you have is false and inflated. Also most of the killing of the Iraqi civilians are done by your government sending in Insurgents with car bombs and blowing them up in form of Mosques. And If the Insurgents will be cowards and fight from schools and mosques then we have no choice but to attack back.
Also Iran is being over flown by U.S. drones and Fighters all the time, do you remember a while back when all of those “U.F.O.” sighting were occurring in Iran. You really think they were little green men? I guarantee you they were U.S. UAV’s and you government couldn't even shoot those down


The 120,000 figure is not false nor is it inflated. An objective and careful British study came to the conclusion and have the documents and proof to back it up with. What do you have to back up your claim that it was false and inflated? Yes, so there are drones flown over Iran..... and...... so.....?? What is your point? Did anyone say there wasn't? It just proves Iran's point that the U.S. is an agressor who is provoking countries into war. Only that in Iran's case they don't have the guts to attack themselves, and so if there will be any incident it will be Israel who attacks - but boy will those pathetic zionist scumbags be sorry!



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Siroos
Thus the criminal is the U.S. and it should then be assumed that the U.S. should be attacked if anyone should be attacked according to the trigger-happy mentality of some Americans!


You should get right on that. It is only right to take on evil when you see it so clearly exists. You should be lacing up your boots right now. But I guess since you are NOT like the trigger-happy Americans you will let the evil trigger-happy Americans continue to trample the earth and not lift a finger except above your keyboard, of course, and perhaps threaten the U.S. with other nations' armies (China, Russia, etc.). Why is your country not mobilizing to attack the most hostile and aggressive nation the world has ever seen? Hitler's army was not brought down by people complaining on the internet about it.




Iran has every right to pursue a nuclear programme for peaceful purposes, and that is exactly what it is doing. If Iran is secretly developing nuclear weapons then they haven't done any worse than the Americans who have violated the international protocol big time.


You know that is "exactly" what Iran is doing? Did they allow you to inspect their facilities? You should definitely go to the U.N. with your proof that is exactly what they are doing, it would save the world from another murderous U.S. undertaking. You have work to do.




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