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Iran is indeed not Iraq - And arrogance has always led to the fall of the greatest empires...

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posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 05:07 PM
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You dont dominate anything...you just get other people to do the work for you so you dominate.

By elite what do you mean?
By the best homade tech?
By the best collection of tech?
By the number of troops?
By the quality of training?

Iran will be no easy mission.....it will come at a high cost on both sides..




posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Siroos
I said that I believe in Karma, and that what goes around comes around - I didn't say that Karma only works for Americans.... However, I reject this naive notion that this is about the "good" "democracy" delivering Americans vs the evil, barabarian Muslim savages such as the American media wants you to believe.

What media is that exactly?

The U.S. media in general - not only Fox but the whole spectrum - CNN, ABC, NBC, New York Times, Washington Post, etc.....


No, this is about the U.S. on a crusade to:

1) Eliminate the obstacles to its quest for world dominance - This includes subduing, passifying or destroying emerging economical and industrial powers such as China and Iran and to make sure that such nations will not ever become a competitive threat to the U.S.

You're joking no?
If the US wanted to take over the world, it would have done so long ago.
There is not one shred of evidence to suggest the US is trying to take over the world.

No, no, no.... I'm dead serious and it is just because you have been fed the garbage of your U.S. media that you are so unaware of what your government is up to. Sure they could have done it a long time ago, but Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and all the crazies weren't in the White House back then.


2) Gain control over the vastest energy sources in the world so that it can assure certain elements in U.S. can satisfy its immense greedy appetite for more wealth.

Why would we attack Iraq to do that?

Because Iraq has the third largest oil reserves (It used to be the 2nd, but now Iran is the second) And Iraq was taken as a second step after Afghanistan to eventually reach the third step, which is the golden prize - Iran.


3) Create huge markets for itself by first bombarding and destroying the infrastructures of the countries attacked, then forcing them to sign lucrative (for the U.S.) contracts for building up that which they destroyed.


1. You keep saying "countries" - plural. Why?

Because Afghanistan has been attacked, Iraq has been attacked, and some 24 countries have been bombarded by the U.S. after 1945

2. You got any evidence we forced anyone to sign anything?

The evidence is what you see in the world.


3. Should we just leave what was destroyed?

you shouldn't be there in the first place!


4) Creating puppet regimes in the invaded countries which will provide the U.S. the ability and opportunities to culturally Americanize the populations and thus create huge shopping malls out of their countries where U.S. firms can sell everything and anything between nike sneakers to God knows what.

lol


5) Send armies of evangelic missionaries whose aim will be to spread misinformation about Islam (As they are currently very busy doing on the internet and in Satellite TV programs) and to convert Muslims to their Christian fundamentalist beliefs. This way they hope to get rid of the most powerful challenge to American hegemony in the Islamic world.

Evidence man. You have GOT to provide evidence when making ridiculous statements like this.



? I don't follow your reasoning here.... The U.S. and Israel has threatened to attack Iran..... Iran has not beheaded or threatened to behead anyone....

?
I never said they did....


Yes, you got involved in the WW2 because you had to for your own best. Had you not headed for Europe, then the Germans, Italians and Japanese would have targeted you next. It was for your own best.

So, Europe didn't benefit at all. Gottcha.


But the U.S. has bombarded at least 24 other countries after 1945 - 24 other countries!! Who is the agressor here? You can't go on bombing country after country because you do not agree with the kind of political system they have. Plenty of countries around the world do not agree with your political system, but does that give them the right to bomb you? Plenty of countries around the world opposed your apartheid system of segregation but that should not be a good reason enough to launch a military attack on another country.

Reading your posts would be so much easier if you knew anything about American history.


Oh come on! I don't think that most Germans or japanese regard American troops there as invadors or occupiers. You just have military bases there.

Ok.....
And once Iraq's government is in place, we'll just have bases there too...


You are an occupying force who invaded their country unlawfully, killed more than 120,000 innocent civilian Iraqis in the process

1. Unlawful to who? Not the UN.
2. Substract 100,000 from your number of innocents killed. (and alot of those 20,000 or so are from insurgents)



How do you get that the invasion was over 3 years ago? Iraq was invaded only 2 years ago.

Baghdad fell on April 9th in 2002. It's 2005.

We ended our "invasion" on May 1st, 2002. It's 2005
5-2 = 3

Typically when a country has been invaded and there's no more land left to invade....that's usually when an invasion is over....


And to this day there are still American and British troops in Iraq - so it's still occupied.

So we were supposed to just leave Iraq immediately?
No.


Certainly the insurgents who are not at all friendly towards the U.S. view the presence of American troops who invaded Iraq and killed more than 100,000 Iraqis as occupiers.

Those insurgents are idiotic punks. Who cares what they think.
btw the Lancet report gives a range of 9000-100000 Iraqis killed. However there is no evidence anywhere to suggest that even close to 100,000 Iraqi civillians have been killed.


Selfish reasons? What could be more selfish than to attack other countries, killing their people devastating their lands, and all for the sake of power and money? That's the mother of all selfishness!

You haven't done anything to justify how killing of 100s even 1000s of Iraqis and coalition forces trying to rebuild their country is right.


Long live a nuclear capable Iran!

You railed against the US breaking the law but you have no problem with Iran breakin it....
Back to that two wrongs don't make a right thing...






Edited quotes

[edit on 3-24-2005 by ProudAmerican]



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by Siroos[Iran's air defenses will take care of the U.S. airforce. The Islamic Republic of Iran not only learnt a lot from the Iran-Iraq war, but it has learnt a whole lot more from the American agression against Iraq, Serbia and Afghanistan. Iran has known for 26 years that it could become involved in a war with the great satan or the little satan, so be sure that they have prepared themselves. And the U.S. or Israel or both will pay a very heavy price should they dare attack Iran - A price they cannot afford!


Supply proof to back up your claim that Iran's air defenses will "take care" of a coordinated US air campaign. I have done a little research on the net and have not found anything the USAF and USN haven't been through before. Wishing something will happen and having the numbers, experience and quality to make it happen are another.



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 06:03 PM
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Siroos, you seem like a hypocrite to me and are simply led by your hatred rather than your mind.

You jump in here and claim these nasty things about America, and claim they are arrogant and stupid, whereas most of your posts have seemed more arrogant and offensive than any others posting here.

You deny the facts, and claim simply that a highly motivated Iranian militant would be the death of American soldiers. Well im sure if those highly motivated militants follow your same vibe ......The highly armed, highly trained, better equipped, highly logistic, American soldier who has just as much ambition to protect his life and achieve his mission,......will give the Iranian militant "a nice try!" and pat on the back as he walks by his dead corpse.

Now i am not denying that Iran would put up a much greater fight against the US than Iraq did. I admit Iran is significantly more sophisticated However, The US didn't even mobilize in Iraq for god sake!! Iraq cannot be used as a judement on the capabilities of the US.
I think the underestimation going on must be dumped on the Iranian side just as much as it is on the American side.

Carburetor



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 06:09 PM
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The guys an idiot. Calling America names like they have running water in Iran. They still are in the Dark Ages.



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by Asia Minor
The guys an idiot. Calling America names like they have running water in Iran. They still are in the Dark Ages.


Please refrain from insults, you will probably get a warning for this. And no, Iran are far from the Dark Ages. Its time for you to Deny Ignorance, think before you post. You've just made a mockery of yourself. Good work.


Oh, your an American, right?

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Ishes]



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by Siroos
I guess this is what has happened to you and quite a few other Americans who voted for the clown Bush and his zionist/evangelic alliance of criminals and crooks.


I have not finished reading all the threads in this post, but I have one thing to ask you and anyone else who has said something similar. Do you honestly believe Kerry would have been any different?

The problem is that in this election (like most) there was no one to choose from that was a stand up person based upon their past and possibly even their present. America is hard pressed to find men/women today that are honestly more concerned about the lives of every day Americans than they are about themselves.

In War everyone looses but the rich!



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 06:35 PM
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Get a warning? Nope don't think he/she will, if the others on here who are calling Americans all these names don't get one yet they he/she wont either.
Plus unless you consider woman slaves, dictatorship and religious laws modern, then Iran is in the dark ages. Remember the middle ages when people were burnt as witches? We now think this is ridicules and stupid, but in Iran religious punishments happen all the time.



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 08:04 PM
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First of all I`d like to say I really dont think that there will be a war between Iran and the USA. It just doesnt make sense, could the Iranian government be so arrogant? They are just playing the game and ultimately will give in to the rest of the world, not just the USA, and will not make any nuclear weapons. They can have as much nuclear power as they want so long as they dont make bombs. And there are offers by the other nations involved with negotiations. Ultimately I think Iran will take one of these offers and go on with a nuclear plant and forget about thee weapons.

Iran has nothing to fear so long as they dont make nukes. We dont want to or need to invade Iran for any reason. Sirros, are you serious? Do you really think we want your oil or something? We dont. What we want is a better peace of mind that terrorists wont get their hands on nukes. We dont think Iran is a threat to us at all. Its just that the terrorists are in the region and they do have supporters who may be in Iran and the potential is quite real.

On another note its so immature to try and pick a fight. If we thought of Iran as a threat and all of your information of superiority was correct, dont you think we`d be smart enough just to drop loads of nukes on you so that your proposed outcome would be denied?

C`mon man, you are an American hater and have a right to your views and opinions, but you are seriously wasting your time. There will be no Iran USA war period. It ain`t gonna happen. The core ideals and fundamentals of the American people are shared by most of the world. We dont set out to invade countries and take them over. Thats not what we are about. We went to Iraq and Afghanistan because of 9/11. Contrary to what you may think we are taking a pre-emptive stance to deny the terrorists of another 9/11.

Iran is not a threat to us, we have no need to invade. If they have nukes then that is a real danger to our society and many others. There is no need for Iran to possess nukes, what because they are afraid we will invade them or something. It ain`t gonna happen, period. The Iranian as well as all the other governments involved will come to an agreement eventually. Iran is and will be an even better ally to the US in the future.

Stop trying to incite riots, the people who are getting so worked up about your claims have the same patriotism that I carry in my veins. I love my country, and while it sure in hell ain`t perfect, its my home and I love it. You really need a better picture of it all, you need to see all angles, we are not what you proclaim. But in your own words, I dont blame you for it. You are a product of your enviroment and if you believe everything you hear then you are no more educated then I. Look at the whole picture, thats all.

Dont be ignorant and just rant and rave. Thats what is wrong with this world. We are too divided, we all need to come together on a common ground. Its the only way for the human race to advance in whole. We will never advance in part. Its not about American or Iranian, get that out of your head. If the world continues on this path it will lead to its ultimate destruction and then, guess what, we all lose.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 05:16 AM
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Originally posted by Yorga
Might loose my cushy job. Then I wouldn't be able to pay for my 2100 sq ft home or my $36,000 car, bloody hell.


It matters not what society you are in, when you value mere material like that, you are not free.

Well done when you fought in Name/Desert storm for your freedom. I hope you enjoyed killed those people, I hope you think you were doing the right thing. Bottom line is I abhor war, and would never fight in someone else’s war. The only war I would ever fight is my war. But I don’t have a war to fight yet, and I hopefully never will have.

You do not live in a free society. You live in a society that is getting more and more paranoid and insane by the day. Accepting that is the first step to your freedom.

I think we should move back to the matter at hand now. Iran.


Originally posted by djohnsto77
Arrogance shall lead to a downfall. The downfall of Iran whose leaders think they can thumb their noses at the international community and violate their treaty obligations to the major powers with immunity. Iran will fall in a fiery cataclysm as the West becomes united against them.


Good point there, that’s exactly why I think Iran/USA will be a surprising conflict. But I also feel that, what if the international community is at fault? And Iran is perfectly legitimate to develop nuclear technology. The majority is not always right!


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Now, I am not going to guess who is going to win. I would think the US, but be prepared for very heavy causalities on the US side. This is going to be an extremely costly war for American people and American soldiers. Iran is no pushover. You will definitely feel it's force.

Your economy will fall even further, oil will peak, taxes will increase and be prepared for doing service in Iran. I predict there will thousands of US causalities, and I am being very conservative in that estimate. It could even be tens of thousands. Then finally be prepared for the bear and the dragon who will swipe you when you are most vulnerable.

You will be fighting in Iran, Syria and Iraq at the same time. Then, if Russia or China gets involved some time later, you won't be able to fight a multi-sided war. And remember Russia and China can take it as far as your home.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]


Your wisdom serves you well. You’re a mind reader!

Iran will defiantly be a huge economic loss for the US, as well as humanitarian. The US cannot hope to occupy Iran, no matter how many solider they send, you cannot control a population that doesn’t want to be controlled. I fear many civilian lives will be lost in Iran when American military bombing campaigns hit ‘military strategic targets’… a.k.a. residential areas, mosques and schools. I fail to see how Bush sleeps at night, I really do.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 07:49 AM
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WestPoint23 you give such an open minded argument.


Iran is no way anything like a country in 'dark ages', it is full of technology and modern life.

IRAN

Area:

1.648 million sq km

Population:

68.27 million

People:

Persian (65%), Azari (25%), Arab (4%), Lors (2%), Turkmen (2%), Kurds, Armenian, Jewish

Languages:

Persian (Farsi) as the official language, Arabic, Kurdish, and Azari

Religion:

Shi'ite Muslim (89%), Sunni Muslim (10%), Zoroastrian, Jewish, Christian, Baha'i (1%)

Government:

Iran is an Islamic Republic established following the Islamic Revolution of 1979.

Head of State:

Spiritual Leader (Rahbar) Ayatollah Sayyed Ali Khamenei

GDP:

US$340 billion

GDP per capital:

US$5,000

Annual Growth:

4.2%

Inflation:

19%

Major Industries:

Oil, gas, agriculture, carpets, armaments

Major Trading Partners:

Japan, Germany, France, Italy, United Kingdom, United Arab Emirates, Belgium



So yeah, looks like the dark ages to me. You need to open your eyes and realize that all this rubbish you see on the TV of Iran being a deprived third world country are lies, you will never see the real Iran because they have something you want, they have money and oil which America just can't handle.

[edit on 25-3-2005 by phixion]



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
they may have supplied it, but Hussein used it for other purposes instead of using for farming or others that he told them he would use for. it be like im telling the suppliers that i need metal to build cars but im really using for bullets.


That's not true. One of the ingrediences which the U.S. supplied is not used for farming but for the production of mustard gas. Besides, are you telling me that U.S. intelligence had no idea about Husseins chemical weapons project which had gone on for quite some time before he attacked the Iranians and Kurds with it? Ofcourse the U.S. knew. It's just that the U.S. has this about it that it plays a holy angel whenever it's convenient, and shuts its eyes whenever that is convenient - It's called hypocrisy.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by Mr Carburetor
Siroos, you seem like a hypocrite to me and are simply led by your hatred rather than your mind.[/qote]

Sorry that you feel that way. I don't really hate anyone, and certainly not the U.S. as a country or nation. I strongly dislike your current government because it is outright criminal, with the blood of hundreds of thousands of people on its hands. It's funny that you say that I'm led by my hatred rather than by my mind, because outside of the U.S. in pretty much the whole world people were shocked that Americans could vote for a criminal clown like George W. Bush in the second election. The topic here outside of your borders is the stupidity and low IQ of many Americans. I do not share their view that Americans are stupid, but I do believe that too many Americans are extremely naive, unaware, misinformed and lack knowledge.


You jump in here and claim these nasty things about America, and claim they are arrogant and stupid, whereas most of your posts have seemed more arrogant and offensive than any others posting here.


Well, I certainly am sorry to have offended you, but sometimes the truth can be offensive and there's nothing I can do about that. America is driven by arrogance, and I am certainly not the only human being on this planet who has that opionion. And it's not only corporate America and your politicians who are arrogant, but a certain culture which today is projected through TV and media in your country and unfortunately also around the world breeds arrogance, and thus you can see an alarming increase of selfishness, materialism, arrogance and ignorance in your society more than anywhere else, since it emanates from there, but also in other societies around the world because of the access to internet and American TV programs. It's always good to be self-critical. The society which fails to be self-critical is doomed. By going on with the attitude that you are the best and the cradle of freedom and all that bollony you will certainly not only never be able to improve things, but you will head for disaster straight on. The U.S. has so many problems that it may seem like beyond repair at this point, but if mainstream Americans would open up their eyes then I believe there would stilll be hope for the U.S. The U.S. is the only industrialized country in the world where you have no national health coverage. And now your fascist government of crooks are going to rob you of your social security. The cost of medication in your country should be regarded as a violation of human rights. Do you think it's right that a handful of billionaires should become even wealthier at the cost of people who are in dire need of medication to stay alive? Your government is also the only country which under the rule of Bush the criminal clown has refused to sign the Kyoto protocol which seeks to reverse the global warming effect. So holy is money to these greedy crooks that they're willing to wreck total havoc on our planet just to get richer and richer! No my friend, I am not the one who doesn't let my mind lead me.... I am most alert and aware of what is happening in our world today. And what is happening in our world today is frightening!


You deny the facts, and claim simply that a highly motivated Iranian militant would be the death of American soldiers. Well im sure if those highly motivated militants follow your same vibe ......The highly armed, highly trained, better equipped, highly logistic, American soldier who has just as much ambition to protect his life and achieve his mission,......will give the Iranian militant "a nice try!" and pat on the back as he walks by his dead corpse.


What facts have I denied? Can you be more specific? We are discussing a potential U.S. attack against Iran and the outcome of such an attack. There are no facts involved when one expresses an opinion of the outcome of a war. The facts would be how many soldiers the U.S. vs Iran has, or how many tanks, or what kind of equipment, etc., those are facts, but that an American soldier should be better than an Iranian is not a fact - that is an opinion. My view that Iranians will be much more motivated and determined to crush U.S. agressors then American soldiers will be who have been ordered to attack a peaceful country without any justified reason, is also an opinion, not a fact. It is also my opinion that technological superiority and military strength measured in weapons, equipment and training does not at all guarantee victory. And I have facts and evidence to back up my opinion with such as that the Afghan Mojaheds defeated the mighty Soviet army. The main reason that happened was because of the lack of morale on behalf of the soldiers of the Red Army on one hand, and the determination, patriotism and religious fervor of the Afghan Mojaheds on the other. Why would an American soldier be motivated to fight a war in Iran, unless he's simply blood-thirsty? Has Iran attacked the U.S.? Has Iran invaded any country? Has Iran launced any terrorist attacks against the U.S. or supported any such attacks? The U.S. is clearly the agressor here and thus the conscience of any decent human being would lead to him/her feeling a lack of motivation in a potential war on Iran.

I think you are the one who is driven by hate as you so gleefully state: (That the U.S. soldier...) "will give the Iranian militant "a nice try!" and pat on the back as he walks by his dead corpse" - - You sound like a real fascist to me... and you have the guts to accuse me of being "led by hatred"! Your lack of compassion for fellow human beings, your hatred and your joyful desire to kill innocent people is in total compliance with the image the world has today of the U.S. government and some of the people who support it. I think it's a shame that innocent American soldiers are being killed just so that some spoiled idiotic and arrogant brats who are ruling your country should become richer while enjoying their war games. Interesting that though that you within a short paragraph can accuse me of being led by hatred and then make such a disgusting statement about the corpse of a dead Iranian soldier! Is this an American trait to accuse others of that which you yourself are guilty of? I'm asking this because I see a pattern... The U.S. which has a bad case of human rights violations admonishes China and other countries for their human rights violations.... The horrific pictures of U.S. torture of Iraqi prisoners also comes to mind.... The U.S. which doesn't have a good functioning real democracy announces that it has become the deliverer of "democracies" around the world...


Now i am not denying that Iran would put up a much greater fight against the US than Iraq did. I admit Iran is significantly more sophisticated However, The US didn't even mobilize in Iraq for god sake!! Iraq cannot be used as a judement on the capabilities of the US.
I think the underestimation going on must be dumped on the Iranian side just as much as it is on the American side.


Frankly I don't give a hoop about what you think about Iran and it abilities, because you don't know anything about Iran and its abilities. I don't blame you for not knowing anything about the reality in Iran, because you are constantly being fed a bunch of lies and total distortions of reality through your bogus media. It's not a secret that certain insitututions in the U.S. such as the CIA and the U.S. government frequently engage in what is called spreading disinformation in order to pursue their political agenda.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by nathraq
This thread is about if the U.S. will defeat Iran in the unlikely event of an invasion.

The answer is simply, yes.

Iran may have 800,000 troops, but they will be fighting against better equipped, better trained, and highly motivated U.S. soldiers. The Iranians would have the advantage of terrain. If we are talking about storming into Iran, and making it into Tehran, then pulling out again, then the U.S. could do this hands down.

During the Iraq-Iran war, Iranian tanks were used as stationary artillery units, instead of what tanks are designed for: swift forward advancement, clearing the way for infantry troops. I would hope that they have learned their lesson.


What in the world would motivate U.S. soldiers to attack a peaceful country for no reason whatsoever? It's an agression - a crime! Unless your soldiers are motivated by crimes, then I cannot see how they could be motivated to fight Iran. Iranians on the other hand are sick and fed up with U.S. bullying and interference in our country. The lives of millions of Iranians has been negatively affected because of the actions of the U.S. in relation to Iran. Iranians have had it with the U.S. and what could be a greater motivator than to fight the source of a lot of your headaches and sorrows?



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by WeBDeviL

If we wanted to obliterate Iran, we would. Do not let the Iranian propaganda minister tell you otherwise. I'm sorry, my friend - The U.S. would obliterate Iran if the U.S. simply wanted to do that - obliterate the country - not save civilian lives and civilian buildings.

-wD


Wow!!! Heil Hitler! Well, you go on and believe what you want about your "superiority". I would love to see your face the day when reality knocks on your door though! Iran will smear the face of U.S. fascism in the S...t of our Sistaani cows until you will learn your rightful place in the world community of nations. The U.S. is the biggest paper tiger ever and one of the biggest agressors in human history. The U.S. always attacks small and defenseless countries, and that's the reason why it won't attack Iran. If there will be an attack on Iran, it will be by your zionist masters in Israel. Oh, so part of the objective was to save lives in Iraq, huh? Is that why only 120,000 civilians were killed?







Edited for excessive quoting again. Siroos, please check your u2u box.

[edit on 3-25-2005 by ProudAmerican]



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 09:58 AM
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Please stop your lunatic rantings siroos.
It's post like yours that bring down the quality of ATS....






...disgusting...



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 10:04 AM
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Siroos, my only hatred is when a person comes into a thread flinging accusations and offensive adjectives about a specific nation when they themselves don't know enough about its people. I agree that most americans don't know enough about Iran to pre-judge, however it is the same for Iranians pre-judging all americans. My comment about the soldier and militant was simply to show that Iranian militants are just as prone to underestimate an american soldier as an american soldier is prone to underestimate a Iranian militant. I am not a facist arrogant american, and once again you don't know me either. I never said anything to the effect that i agreed with every move our government makes, or the administration makes. Once again that was your pre-judement.

The reason some Americans in this thread may seem arrogant and humble, is because they have been offended by your approch. I called it hypocritical when you approch people the way you did, and then when they respond, you accuse them of being facists and arrogant Americans. They have every right to start flaming you. There are much better ways to bring about your emotional thoughts than to offend every American on this site. And im sorry i beg to differ on your thoughts about Americans, as there are alot of good hearted, kind , and respectful families out there that you just don't see. Maybe it is you that is more influenced by our media, by the way you are judging americans.......maybe you watched too much "South Park"

Carburetor



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 10:27 AM
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It matters not what society you are in, when you value mere material like that, you are not free.

Well done when you fought in Name/Desert storm for your freedom. I hope you enjoyed killed those people, I hope you think you were doing the right thing. Bottom line is I abhor war, and would never fight in someone else’s war. The only war I would ever fight is my war. But I don’t have a war to fight yet, and I hopefully never will have.

You do not live in a free society. You live in a society that is getting more and more paranoid and insane by the day. Accepting that is the first step to your freedom.

I think we should move back to the matter at hand now. Iran.













First off don't try dumping your morality on me. I've seen your morality in action when I saw what your fellow Muslems(Iraqi's) did to Kuwait during its occupation. The brutality and barbaricism was beyond anything I witnessed in Vietnam. I mention the material things I own in response to the common believe that we Americans are living in somekind of fog and do not see or care what is going on around us. You say because I own these things I am not free? BS, it is because I am free that I can own these things. It's called the American Dream! The fact is that anyone from any country can come to America and seek the same freedom and comforts I enjoy. My neighbors and friends are Asian, Afican/American, Arab, etc. etc.
They as well as I, are free to worship whatever diety in whatever religion they choose. Can you say the same? Your society and your religion surpress peoples rights. You treat your dogs better than you do your women. You have no concept of the value of a human life, strapping bombs on children in the name of Allah. You ask did I enjoy killing? The answer is no, not until I had to pick up body parts of innocent women, children and men that were spread across a city block because one of your brave Muslem comrades blew himself up while screaming 'God is great'
In Vietnam I killed VC, NVR, Chinese and a Russian or two. Funny how you claim it was just another war of American aggression. In Desert Storm I killed Iraqi's that terrorized a soverign nation. But never at any time did I enjoy killing until I had the pleasure to take out a group of Islamic radicals . Found them hiding in a mosque, imagine that. Found enough arms, ammunition and explosives to destroy a small city. Imagine my delight as we waisted the whole freaking bunch. If I had to I would kill you and your entire family to wipe Islamic Radical scum from the face of the earth. Why? Because I know for a fact that these scum would do the same to me and mine. You see I don't care a rats a** about you, your religion, your ethics or your morals. I am a professional soldier, you threaten America and I will hunt you to the ends of the earth. When I see a Islamic Radical I don't see a human. If you support this ideology then you are not human. As a soldier I will go were ever I am sent to kill as many of these bastards as it takes to stop them. Why? Because it takes a bastard to know a bastard. One more thing, a lot of the soldiers in the field today were trained by me and people like me. Everytime they take out some Radical Islamic scum, I feel like a proud papa. Arrogant, damn right!
Mean as a f****** snake to boot. Now if you don't mind, I'm going to board my $50,000 boat and go fishing, you like to fish?



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Well good it might keep their morale up knowing that they can beat the U.S. at chess


We can beat the U.S. in a whole lot of things, like we did when we beat the U.S. in soccer in the 1998 world cup. We also beat the U.S. when it comes to culture, history, poetry, the fine arts, spiritual culture and noble values, but I think it's kind of childish this "who can beat who" mentality. Why should people have to beat one another at all times? Isn't it possible to cooperate with one another for the mutual benefits of one another instead? If the U.S. would have that approach instead of bullying its way to what its greedy desires dictate, then the world would be a much better and safer place, and decent Americans could have some hope for a bright future for themselves and their children. But the way things are going now, the U.S. is headed for disaster.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by Apollyon
Well you are sorta right. Iran is a different country than Iraq. I think the US will handle Iran VERY differently. The majority of Iranians remember a time when they were allies of the US and remember then fondly.


I don't think that the majority of Iranians remember those days when Iran was an ally of the U.S. fondly at all.... Iran was not even half as independent as it is today. Iran is 100% independent today and more or less selfsufficient in many regards in comparison to back then when we were dependent on the West for virtually everything. Iranians greatly appreciate the independence which the revolution brought us, even with all the shortcomings of the present establishment. Never again do we want that kind of relation with the U.S.! We are a proud nation and do not take orders from anyone. The U.S. will be welcome to be our friends only the day when they have sincerely agreed to quit their bullying and schemes against other nations. Until then we prefer to have no relations with the U.S. whatsoever. This does not mean that we should be hostile towards the U.S. - Not at all. We just should not engage with them. We have a saying in Persian which goes "Douri va dousti" which means that in some instances a friendship can only be maintained at a distance. The day when the U.S. accepts Iran's (And other countries') right to self-determination, and our right to create progressive and advanced societies which can compete economically, technologically and scientifically with the most advanced countries of the world, then we shall reconsider fullblown relations with the U.S..

Iran unlike Iraq is more or less republic. I see the US only attacking whole sale as a last resort and the selective clandestine removal of a few extreme Mullahs will give just the nudge needed to move Iran into a position both the US and the average Amir the Iranian (as a posed to Joe American) can live with. Once the hardliners are removed diplomacy can do the rest.

However should that fail and war come it will be Iraq II, a rapid defeat of Iranian conventional forces followed by a protracted guerilla insurgency with horrific casualties to the civil population caused by the insurgents.




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