Iran is indeed not Iraq - And arrogance has always led to the fall of the greatest empires...

People are blaming us for the civilian deaths in Iraq? You have got to be kidding me.
I don't the US is the one setting of 5 car bombs a day killing civilians or setting of suicide vest killing civilians. I don't think the US sets and blows bombs in front of cafes in Iraq.

But of course if you block all the facts out and just believe everything in the world is the USA’s fault then I can see how people come up with that conclusion.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
People are blaming us for the civilian deaths in Iraq? You have got to be kidding me.

Cause and effect.
The US destabalized Iraq by removing the government and engaging in an occupation of the country. The car bombings are a result of the removal of the government and continued occupation. If those two things had not happened, there would not be car bombs going off every day so the US is responsible.

Right now, they don't have car bombs going off every day in Iran.
If the US removes the Iranian government and engages in an occupation, there will be car bombs and IEDs going off every day. You know this ahead of time. If the US continues with plans to overthow Iran in spite of knowing this, then the US will be responsible for the persons killed with those car bombs and IEDs.

[edit on 19-6-2005 by AceOfBase]

Siroos,

although your initial point has some depth (that USA, as the only superpower, creates more trouble than peace), your overall stance has many wrongs.

First of all, you are full of arrogance: Iran this, Iran that, Iran whatever. Who the hell do you think you are? Iran is just another place on Earth, same as any other, with the same people as any other people.

Iranians are no more kind or gentle or whatever attribute you are trying to persuade us that you have than any other country. WE ARE ALL THE SAME #IN COLOR, can't you understand that? that you were born under a fake religion that is Islam does not make it any different than me born under a fake religion that is Christianity. Take away religions, and we are the same! we are composed of the same substances, we have the same needs, we react the same way, and we speak the same language (all languages have more or less the same structure). We are 100% the same biologically, and we actually have no real differences.

All the perceived differences we have are artificial. You may have a different culture, but your culture has the absolutely same trends as mine, SIMPLY BECAUSE WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS.

So please stop being provocative, will you? it does not matter if Iran has the greatest military of them all, or the greatest fighters, or the greatest whatever! just stop seeking an all out confrontation that will lead the Earth into a permanent damaged state!!!

I didn't read all the responses to this entire thread. But i'll venture to say that I'm probably the only American in here who agrees, and already knew the majority of what your post said.

But I'm also an American who believes that our government will still invade Iran, knowing that it's a suicide mission. Why? To further instill fear in American society. They'll bring the draft back, and send everyone they can find (except for me, i'll be in Canda :lol

But you must know that your words simply went stragith through the eyes and out the ears of the majority of your readers. Simplistic, brainwashed Americans believe whatever they see on CNN and FOXNews (Billy O'Reily is a whining little girl).

Originally posted by Siroos

I sense where you come from - You're the kind who has wet dreams about wars. You and I are not at all on the same level. War is a terrible thing. People are killed and lives are ruined. People are scarred for the rest of their lives. I curse those who cause this kind of pain on innocent people! We Persian have a saying that goes "Stones will hit the heart of stone". Those people who are joyful from the misery of others will bring misery to themselves ultimately. Saadi, a most revered Iranian poet who lived some 1000 years ago wrote the following verse which now is inscripted above the entrance of the UN headquarters in New York City:

Adam's race members of one frame;
Since all, at first, from the same essence came.
When by hard fortune one limb is oppressed,
The other members loose their wonted rest.
If thou feel'st not for others misery,
A son of Adam is no name for thee.

The truth is that neither I or you or anyone else than God the Almighty knows who the victor would be in a war between the U.S. and Iran. You believe that Iran has no chance, I say that look at history and you will see that the U.S. lost the war against Vietnam and the Soviet against the Afghans - nobody would have ever thought that the Vietnamese and the Afghans could beat these two super powers, but they did. Iran is a mighty country and a very proud one. Its people will unite against any foreign agression and support the current establishment against the agressor. The U.S. has no business in Iran or the Middle East. The U.S. does not belong there. If you ask God the Almighty what He thinks about the actions of the U.S. in the Middle East, I'm most confident that He will say that the U.S. has no business there and that it should mind its own business instead of constantly interfering in the business of other nations. God the Almighty would probably also say that it's not the business of the U.S. to tell Iran what it can or can't do when it comes to its nuclear programme - especially when the U.S. has violated the international protocol for the containment of nuclear weapons by 1) Not fulfilling the requirement to dismantle its nuclear arsenal 2) Refused the UN to investigate its nuclcear arsenal and program 3) Numerous times vetoed the UN's demands to investigate Israels nuclear program and sites.

I hope there wíll be no war between Iran and the U.S. because so many people would die on both sides, but should the U.S. or Israel be so unwise as to launch an attack on Iran, then I'm certain that hell will break loose in the world. It will be the beginning of the third world war and the end of life as you used to know in the U.S.

Pathetic.

You start a thread about how Iran would beat the US in a head to head conflict.

I disagree, give several reasons backed up by FACTS. You respond by saying I have wet dreams about wars.

Listen, I do not want war. I know that it is sometimes needed. And I also know that if the US went into Iran, we would win.

Both your examples ('nam and Afghanistan) are absolutely worthless.

In Vietnam, WE DID NOT ALLOW OUR SELVES TO ATTACK THE ENEMY ON THEIR LAND. Do you really think we would just sit on the boarder of Iran and wait for Iran to attack us? Of course not. Like I, and every other sound minded individual in this thread said, the US would drop millions of pounds of bombs on Iran. We would come with hundreds of thousands of troops. We would go where we want in Iran, when we wanted, and there isn't a damn thing Irans military or people could do about it, save for a few roadside bombs. And as soon as the Iranians go to guarilla war, the US has already won, because Iran is under occupation.

Afghanistan is a bad example because the USA was backing Afghanistan, otherwise they would have been defeated. Also you seem to forget that the US took Afghanistan on a whim, with very few soldiers involved.

This isn't a question of morality or your God, this is a question of logic. The US has the most powerfull military ever in the history of man. Iran has no chance, and thats not opinion, thats just a fact.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
If the US continues with plans to overthow Iran in spite of knowing this, then the US will be responsible for the persons killed with those car bombs and IEDs.

[edit on 19-6-2005 by AceOfBase]

Wrong.

This is such a typical liberal mentality.

The people that set up IEDs are responsible. We didn't make them do it, they made the choice.

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Wrong.

This is such a typical liberal mentality.

The people that set up IEDs are responsible. We didn't make them do it, they made the choice.

Are you placeing everyone who doesnt agree with america on the "liberal's" side?

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Wrong.

This is such a typical liberal mentality.

The people that set up IEDs are responsible. We didn't make them do it, they made the choice.

If China overthrows or assassinates the US government, are you saying they would not bear any of the responsibility for any resultant chaos in the US?

[edit on 19-6-2005 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by AceOfBase
If the US continues with plans to overthow Iran in spite of knowing this, then the US will be responsible for the persons killed with those car bombs and IEDs.

[edit on 19-6-2005 by AceOfBase]

Wrong.

This is such a typical liberal mentality.

The people that set up IEDs are responsible. We didn't make them do it, they made the choice.

And who made the chioce to go there? When you aren't there, it doesn't happen, when you are there it does....

So what is the cause of it happening?

Why is it happening?

Same answer right?

Some of you forget how many Iraqis would have been killed and were killed by the government that was there before the US moved in. And can I see some links of facts about the true number of civilians casualties in Iraq.

Like AMM said the U.S. did not go there to kill civilians, the insurgents are the ones that decide whether the bomb goes off or not.

And you guys are condoning what the terrorists in Iraq are doing, you are condoning their killings because you are saying they have no choice but to kill civilians because the U.S. is in Iraq. What kind of logic is that?


[edit on 19-6-2005 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Wrong.

This is such a typical liberal mentality.

The people that set up IEDs are responsible. We didn't make them do it, they made the choice.

If China overthrows or assassinates the US government, are you saying they would not bear any of the responsibility for any resultant chaos in the US?

[edit on 19-6-2005 by AceOfBase]

Thats exactly what I'm saying. If they came in and overthrew our government, they are not responsable for how I, you or anyone else responds or retaliates. The justification of how you respond is a different matter intirely.

siroos,
Based on your post, I can tell you are definitely a typical muslim extremist with your severe hate towards the Unites States and Isreal. People like you come a dime a dozen in the middle east, and your kind are a cancer in the post cold-war world that need to be either eliminated or put under submission. The United States' plan to democratize the middle east is the perfect solution to eliminate muslim extremism or atleast put it under control. You can be delusional all you want, just like the taliban and Saddam, but it doesnt mean that Iran will beat the US. You see, your delusions arent real.

Originally posted by Siroos
Inresponse to those here who have asserted that "Iran could never resist an American attack" or that "Iran's military may be able to successfully engage in warfare with a smaller Western nation, but not with the U.S.", I have this to say:

Siroos, if I were you, I wouldn't go to the other end so as to support that Iran can win against USA in a military conflict. Not only it is stupid, but it is utterly arrogant. The USA has a great deal of military power. Do you think that USA has fought a real battle in Iraq? they haven't. They are there, but not really in a full-fighting war. They are basically there as keepers, guards, not fighters.

If USA gets angry, then Iraq, Iran and all their neighbours could be annihillated in one day. So please revise your opinion and ask for world peace.

Originally posted by bob2000
siroos,
Based on your post, I can tell you are definitely a typical muslim extremist with your severe hate towards the Unites States and Isreal. People like you come a dime a dozen in the middle east, and your kind are a cancer in the post cold-war world that need to be either eliminated or put under submission.

Extrimists of all kinds, no matter if they are Muslims trying to put the world under submission or eliminate it as a whole, or people in the west who desire destruction for others and are extrimists, should reconsider their position.

Originally posted by masterp
If USA gets angry, then Iraq, Iran and all their neighbours could be annihillated in one day. So please revise your opinion and ask for world peace.

Iran can give chemical and biological weapons to terrorist groups who can in turn set it off in US cities killing millions. However the ability to destroy isnt something to be proud of.

Iran can give chemical and biological weapons to terrorist groups who can in turn set it off in US cities killing millions. However the ability to destroy isnt something to be proud of.

Thats the funniets thing i heard, Iran had 20 years to do this but do you see Ousama with those kind of weapons or any other terrorist groups popping out of CNN saying we got this and that? other than AK-47's and old busted up RPG's.

The the United States wants to stop terrorism in the world...they should stop participating in it - Noam Chomsky


There is no enemy anywhere - Lao Tse

Westpoint...

America hit Iraq with what it thought at the time was sound intellegence.
It has all been proven False.
How many cousins.. uncles.. aunties.. moms/dads.. sons daughters has america killed?.. be it insurgents or accidental innocents... or just innocents?

America is very much to BLAME for the current chaos in Iraq.
It may be the insurgents setting of the bombs, but in a world where ur family has been murdered, your basic life NEEDS like water, power and sewage are cut off... and wlaking the street is a risk..
in a day where u can earn 10x the amount working for the insurgency than workign in a proper job?.. being all this is the DIRECT result of america invading, removing government and destroying infrastructure.
I wuold say the USA is responsible for everything going on in IRAQ at the moment.

You dont kill someone, and have them enact revenage.... then go on to blame them do you?...
its human nature.
u destroy them, they will want revenge..

america is simply feeling the revenge for its stupidity.



American MADMAN, you are correct, if china invades the USA, and u retaliate against the occupying forces, they are not responsible for your actions.
but they are responsible for the situation which they created, which would ultimately RESULT in the chaos.

Therefore they are responsible for the attacks.





[edit on 8-9-2005 by Agit8dChop]

Good post Agit, you said it in a very good and intelligent way and as most people should know that theres going to be no war against us and its more rather propaganda, wouldnt you guys want U.S-Iran relationship better? and dont give me that crap that iran would nuke Isreal or give it to terrorist because thats just more of bushs BS or what CNN would say.

NAM, Russia, China oppose referral of Iran nuclear case to UNSC

Member states of Non-Aligned Movement, Russia and China on Thursday voiced their objection to referral of Iran's nuclear dossier to UN Security Council.

According to a diplomat belonging to a NAM member state who spoke to IRNA on condition of anonymity, in a meeting at the
Vienna-based IAEA headquarters on Thursday, the representatives of the NAM members states, Russia and China all rejected any attempts to refer Iran's nuclear dossier to the UN Security Council.

He said it was stated in the meeting that there were no justifications for referral of Iran's dossier to the Security Council.

He noted that all participants stressed the point that the issue should be settled within the IAEA framework.

It was also emphasized in the meeting that Iran suspended its uranium enrichment activities voluntarily on the basis of a mutual agreement with the EU3 as a trust-building measure and that it was not binding for Iran in any ways, the diplomat said.

He also said that the NAM is to release a statement on the meeting to officially announce its decision in this regard.


www.irna.ir...

A lot of people in this thread are going to get a big, big, shock if America move on Iran, and Siroos, Indigo_Child, and Phixion, will not be part of that Crowd.